Oswald Leaving TSBD?

Many pages back in this thread it was established beyond doubt that the only TSBD employee Prayer Man could conceivably be is Lee Oswald.

All other candidates--Frazier, Lovelady, Molina, Otis Williams, Bill Shelley--were definitively ruled out.

We all remember how quickly poor David von Pein found other things to do once he realised his wiggle room on this issue was precisely zilch.

Each improvement in Darnell image quality has only made the case for this being Oswald more and more compelling.

Now let's not kid ourselves here as to the magnitude of what has just happened.

If a bona fide image even a quarter as clear as this one had emerged in recent days of a man at the SN window at assassination time, this would have been hailed by WC defenders as the final nail in the kook coffin.

Well, things have not turned out quite that way, have they?

It seems the WC defenders are left with one pitiful option if they are to avoid the checkmate reality that faces them:

resort for dear life to the argument from incredulity and insist that Prayer Man just has to be someone other than Oswald.

The argument from incredulity will run as follows:

It's just plum ridiculous to claim that Oswald could have been on those steps for the motorcade and the aftermath without being noticed by any of his co-workers. Sheesh.

This argument, being silly, is easily disposed of.

Prayer Man is a fact.

He was there.

His presence there is not however recalled by a single witness in on-the-record statements or sworn testimony.

And yet--did I mention this?--he is a fact.

He was there.

The lack of attestation as to his presence puts not a dent, not even a scratch, in the integrity of that fact.

Prayer Man was there.

To claim that Prayer Man is not Oswald is to claim that the presence of Oswald--a quiet and unexceptional worker in the building-- would have been more liable to notice up there at the entrance amongst the other TSBD folk than the presence of a total stranger-- someone who didn't work in that building, had no business being there amongst the TSBD folk, would have had to walk up those steps from the street in order to end up in the Prayer Man position.

And to claim that is to take terminal recourse to kook logic.

Which, of course, is what the kook WC defenders will now do.

After that? Well, one can only look forward to Dave Perry's next time trial on Discovery Channel where Usain Bolt will demonstrate that Oswald could have fired off all three rounds from the SN window and still have made it comfortably down in time to catch the motorcade from the front entrance.

Equally stimulating will be Max Holland's National Geographic spot showing that Prayer Man's posture is not at all inconsistent with the posture of a man firing a rifle at traffic poles and street signs, and at an angle not entirely inconsistent with a deflection-to-the-Presidential-limousine scenario.

Meanwhile the rest of us can be getting on with the job at hand: evidence-based research.

Well said, Sean.

Many pages back in this thread it was established beyond doubt that the only TSBD employee Prayer Man could conceivably be is Lee Oswald.

All other candidates--Frazier, Lovelady, Molina, Otis Williams, Bill Shelley--were definitively ruled out.

We all remember how quickly poor David von Pein found other things to do once he realised his wiggle room on this issue was precisely zilch.

Each improvement in Darnell image quality has only made the case for this being Oswald more and more compelling.

Now let's not kid ourselves here as to the magnitude of what has just happened.

If a bona fide image even a quarter as clear as this one had emerged in recent days of a man at the SN window at assassination time, this would have been hailed by WC defenders as the final nail in the kook coffin.

Well, things have not turned out quite that way, have they?

It seems the WC defenders are left with one pitiful option if they are to avoid the checkmate reality that faces them:

resort for dear life to the argument from incredulity and insist that Prayer Man just has to be someone other than Oswald.

The argument from incredulity will run as follows:

It's just plum ridiculous to claim that Oswald could have been on those steps for the motorcade and the aftermath without being noticed by any of his co-workers. Sheesh.

This argument, being silly, is easily disposed of.

Prayer Man is a fact.

He was there.

His presence there is not however recalled by a single witness in on-the-record statements or sworn testimony.

And yet--did I mention this?--he is a fact.

He was there.

The lack of attestation as to his presence puts not a dent, not even a scratch, in the integrity of that fact.

Prayer Man was there.

To claim that Prayer Man is not Oswald is to claim that the presence of Oswald--a quiet and unexceptional worker in the building-- would have been more liable to notice up there at the entrance amongst the other TSBD folk than the presence of a total stranger-- someone who didn't work in that building, had no business being there amongst the TSBD folk, would have had to walk up those steps from the street in order to end up in the Prayer Man position.

And to claim that is to take terminal recourse to kook logic.

Which, of course, is what the kook WC defenders will now do.

After that? Well, one can only look forward to Dave Perry's next time trial on Discovery Channel where Usain Bolt will demonstrate that Oswald could have fired off all three rounds from the SN window and still have made it comfortably down in time to catch the motorcade from the front entrance.

Equally stimulating will be Max Holland's National Geographic spot showing that Prayer Man's posture is not at all inconsistent with the posture of a man firing a rifle at traffic poles and street signs, and at an angle not entirely inconsistent with a deflection-to-the-Presidential-limousine scenario.

Meanwhile the rest of us can be getting on with the job at hand: evidence-based research.

Great post Sean.

Physical evidence most definitely trumps witness testimony on this one.

The latest Darnell improvement by Robin -- not only does the Oswald likeness improve; the Frazier image just about jumps off the page.

Regarding BWF, I am not sure if we will hear from him directly on this (if ever).

I would not be surprised to hear from a "spokesman" in his stead.

As we noted earlier in this thread, it may have been possible for a late-arriving Prayer Man to go unnoticed by employees on the lower steps and out in front of the TSBD. But there would be a small group on the top/back step near the door that may have noticed, including BWF, Joe Molina, Bill Shelley, and a couple others.

My opinion regarding the MSM is they will ignore this issue as long as humanly possilble.

And if they ever do get Usain in for a timing trial, he will have his work cut out this time.

Those who have been following this thread will know that there is nothing wildly surprising at our finding visual confirmation of Oswald's presence at the front entrance.

**

That this would happen is predicted by Jesse Curry's reckless description to the press on the evening of the assassination of the essentials of the brief Baker-Oswald encounter at the front entrance (click to enlarge):

Had Darnell kept filming the front entrance for just a few seconds more, we would have actual footage of this encounter.

**

It is predicted by the giveaway anxiety of the FBI over the weekend of the assassination that Oswald's claim to have been out front had found photographic corroboration in a certain photo that had gone out on the newswires shortly after the shooting:

**

It is predicted by the clunky protest-too-much disclaimer contained in Roy Truly's first on-the-record account of his actions immediately following the assassination:

**

It is predicted by Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes's off-script moment during his WC testimony, where he has the bad taste to use the word 'vestibule' in its correct sense (front lobby of a building):

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

…

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

Holmes got the basics right: Oswald had indeed not long before that come out to "this front part", as shown in the relevant Wiegman frames.

**

It is predicted by the telltale reticence in the various interrogation reports on the head of where exactly Oswald claimed to have been during the assassination.

The farthest anyone will go is: "on the first floor".

**

It is predicted in what--on the basis of a close comparison with the contemporaneous Bookhout interrogation notes (which we have access to thanks to the handwritten copy that Captain Fritz made and kept)--we established to be an almost certain interpolation by SS Inspector Thomas Kelley in his first interrogation report of the sentence in red below:

I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not. I then asked him if he had shot the President and he said he had not. I asked him if he has shot governor Connally and he said he had not.

**

And it is predicted in the first page of Bookhout's contemporaneous interrogation notes.

I thought that the increasment of the images from Robin does help to exclude the presence of Oswald idea

but the opposite is the case.

The new Darnell frames shows somebody in the doorway who really can be Oswald.

Without the frames i would be silent. But now...........

The more i look at it, the more Oswald.

Martin

Those who have been following this thread will know

That there is nothing wildly surprising

At our finding visual confirmation

Of Oswald's presence at the front entrance.

I got to know Larry Ray Harris

Not long before he died,

And I got to know Harold Weisberg

Over a good stretch of time.

I feel safe in saying that

these Gentlemen,

And stress the word,

Would be very proud

Of Sean Murpheee!

I thought that the increasment of the images from Robin does help to exclude the presence of Oswald idea

but the opposite is the case.

The new Darnell frames shows somebody in the doorway who really can be Oswald.

Without the frames i would be silent. But now...........

The more i look at it, the more Oswald.

Martin

Hi Martin,

It's him alright.

Important to zoom out again and reiterate that the shape of Oswald's torso is distorted here because of the blocking presence of a woman on the steps in front of him.

If one starts with this woman's foot and lower leg, one can work one's way up to where her head is and appreciate the enlarging effect she is having on Oswald's frame (oh dear, that could have been phrased better...):

What's going to happen next is that the WC defender kooks will attempt to stave off a collective nervous breakdown by channelling the spirit of Ralph Cinque and denying that this is the man it so very obviously looks like. The lapel is wrong! The hands are too big!! He has breasts!!!

Dave Reitzes may even need to revert to the two Oswalds theory to get out of this one.

I thought that the increasment of the images from Robin does help to exclude the presence of Oswald idea

but the opposite is the case.

The new Darnell frames shows somebody in the doorway who really can be Oswald.

Without the frames i would be silent. But now...........

The more i look at it, the more Oswald.

Martin

Hi Martin,

It's him alright.

Important to zoom out again and reiterate that the shape of Oswald's torso is distorted here because of the blocking presence of a woman on the steps in front of him.

If one starts with this woman's foot and lower leg, one can work one's way up to where her head is and appreciate the enlarging effect she is having on Oswald's frame (oh dear, that could have been phrased better...):

What's going to happen next is that the WC defender kooks will attempt to stave off a collective nervous breakdown by channelling the spirit of Ralph Cinque and denying that this is the man it so very obviously looks like. The lapel is wrong! The hands are too big!! He has breasts!!!

Dave Reitzes may even need to revert to the two Oswalds theory to get out of this one.

Did Oswald have a twin brother?

There might be one more person still alive (born: September 18, 1946) that know the identity of ‘Prayer Man": Roy Edward Lewis. This is what he told the FBI (CE1381, page 61):

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0346a.htm

"On November 22, 1963 at approximately 12:25 PM I stood by myself on the inside of the front entrance of the Texas School Book Depository Building to watch President John F. Kennedy come by the building in a motorcade. I heard three shots fired from somewhere above me, but was unable to see the person who fired them.

I was acquainted with Lee Harevey Oswald, but he was not with me at the time I heard the shots."

The last statement is a bit interesting since other TSBD employees state that they did not SEE LHO at the time of the shots, whereas Lewis says LHO was not with him on the INSIDE of the front entrance at that time.......

As for Frazier, it is intersting to note that he pretends he did not see Baker run into the building:

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?

Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?

Mr. BALL - A police officer.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.

Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?

Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.

Bjørn Gjerde

There might be one more person still alive (born: September 18, 1946) that know the identity of ‘Prayer Man": Roy Edward Lewis. This is what he told the FBI (CE1381, page 61):

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0346a.htm

　

"On November 22, 1963 at approximately 12:25 PM I stood by myself on the inside of the front entrance of the Texas School Book Depository Building to watch President John F. Kennedy come by the building in a motorcade. I heard three shots fired from somewhere above me, but was unable to see the person who fired them.

I was acquainted with Lee Harevey Oswald, but he was not with me at the time I heard the shots."

The last statement is a bit interesting since other TSBD employees state that they did not SEE LHO at the time of the shots, whereas Lewis says LHO was not with him on the INSIDE of the front entrance at that time.......

As for Frazier, it is intersting to note that he pretends he did not see Baker run into the building:

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?

Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?

Mr. BALL - A police officer.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.

Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?

Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.

　

　

　

Bjørn Gjerde

Hi Bjorn,

I don't suppose you have any images/pictures of him do you?

Thanks - Steve

Hi!

No, I don't have any pictures of R. E. Lewis.

BG

Buell Wesley Frazier & Joe Molina: the two TSBD men who remained standing stock still on the front entrance steps after the shots were fired

Buell Wesley Frazier & Joe Molina: the two TSBD men who were threatened with a conspiracy-with-Oswald charge within 24 hours of the shooting.

Buell Wesley Frazier & Joe Molina: two TSBD men who could offer no memory of having seen Marrion Baker run into the building.

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance. ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST towards the TSBD entrance. ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

Robin, I believe that may be Gloria Calvery.

Incidentally I remember several years back a man posting a comment on a Texas message board (TV or newspaper-related, can't quite remember which) claiming to have been a next-door-neighbour of Gloria. She apparently shared with him her recollection of having seen Lee Oswald very close in time to the assassination and confessed she had always been perplexed by the notion that he could have been the sixth floor shooter.

I tried to get the poster to elaborate but unfortunately he didn't respond.

Posted by Colin Crow on Duncan's forum.

quote:

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could.
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you run or walk?
Mr. LOVELADY - Medium trotting or fast walk.
Mr. BALL - A fast walk?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Somebody hollered and I looked.
Mr. BALL - You turned around and looked?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.