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Cliff Varnell

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  1. Factually incorrect. Dulles was a life-long employee -- his employers had access to all the resources Dulles did.
  2. I don't think "the CIA" whacked Kennedy, I think "the CIA" whacked Oswald. Helms & Co knew that if the Garrison investigation went too far certain Agency guys like E. Howard Hunt would go down for the Kennedy assassination itself. I speculate Allen Dulles was on that patsy chain.
  3. Bingo! Why would Dulles set up friends of a friend as assassin-hosts when he'd have to face possible subsequent exposure? The Paines-Bancroft-Dulles connection was much more consistent with a frame job than the work of a mastermind. What mastermind opens themselves to such exposure? In Harriman's biography the Dulles brothers are referred to as "his lawyers." I suspect Harriman protected Allen Dulles from the elites who sought his dismissal, most prominently Robert Lovett, Harriman's life-long best ally. Harriman and Lovett were two of the six "Wise Men" at the center of US foreign policy for decades. Many of those rogue CIA cowboys Lovett loathed were Harriman's drug gang shock troops. "Existential threat" to Dulles? How? Seems to me having exposure to a "Presidential assassin" was more of an existential threat to Dulles than any chance of Kennedy pulling his pension. Employees never do. I can't go so far as to call it a "fact." I put it in the "Highly Likely Deserves Greater Scrutiny" category. Don't forget the social engineering aspect of the post-WW2 drug trade targeting minority communities. The Rockefeller/Harriman/Walker/Bush crime syndicate were big time eugenicists.
  4. That brings us back to the Bay of Pigs and the Kennedy assassination. Taking a powder to Puerto Rico D-Day -1 was villainous in what respect? Bailing on Quarters Eye on the D-Day evening was villainous in what respect? Setting up friends of his girlfriend to host a "Presidential assassin" was villainous in what respect? This is goofy stuff, frankly.
  5. Allen Dulles and Charles Manson are two of the most over-rated villains of all time.
  6. Okay, composer. Harriman was the composer of the Kennedy assassination, I'd reckon. Along the lines of the Diem coup, as per the Corson Scenario: Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5: <quote on, emphasis added> Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.” Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.” The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.” At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal. According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance. <quote off>
  7. Did you re-read Talbot's account of the Bay of Pigs? What was the point of Dulles going to Puerto Rico and never showing up at Quarters Eye, the CIA's operational HQ in downtown DC? He was acting? For what purpose?
  8. Averell Harriman with the blessing of John D. Rockefeller the 3rd. Or so I'd speculate...
  9. Along with people who worked closely with him, and his family care-givers. Who is EA?
  10. That's how his care-taker cousin described it. That would account for his detachment from the BOP. So he sleep-walked thru the Bay of Pigs because he was a master mind? Believe what you like...but the facts are that JFK was under more pressure NOT to intervene in the BOP than any pressure put on him by Charles Cabell's 4am D-Day call or Adm. Burke's D-Day+2 offer to involve the US Navy. From the Kinzer article: "I had the feeling that by then, he was slowing down a bit," said Bundy, who at that time worked under Paul Nitze, Assistant Secretary of State for International Security Affairs. "He hadn't been quite the man I had known. All through, he hadn't been as much on top of the operation as I expected." William Bundy's assessment was wide-spread in the US Eastern Liberal Establishment.
  11. It's good until he gets to the Bay of Pigs and the Kennedy assassination. Check out Talbot's account of the Bay of Pigs. He corroborates Kinzer's account of a clocked-out Dulles but Talbot still manages to conclude Dulles was acting like a master-mind. Talbot's conclusion flies in the face of Agency reservations about Dulles' capabilities.
  12. How the worst blot on JFK's presidency happened Was Allen Dulles' early dementia to blame for the Bay of Pigs? By Stephen Kinzer http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/jfk-bay-of-pigs-allendulles.html <quote on> Sen. John F. Kennedy, (left), and Allen W. Dulles, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) director, walks towards newsmen on the lawn of the Democratic presidential candidates in Hyannis Port, MA., home on July 23, 1960. AP Before dawn on April 17, 1961, a CIA-trained force of Cuban exiles landed in Cuba at the Bay of Pigs in an attempt to overthrow Fidel Castro's new regime. History has recorded the disaster that befell them. "How could I have been so stupid?" President John F. Kennedy shouted after the scope of the failure became clear. Soon afterward, Kennedy fired his CIA director, Allen Dulles. "In a parliamentary system of government, it is I who would be leaving office," he told Dulles. "But under our system, it is you who must go." Historians often call the Bay of Pigs failure the worst moment of Kennedy's presidency. Historian Michael Beschloss has called it Kennedy's "first enormous defeat" and said Kennedy felt he had "blotted his copy book forever." What has not been understood, however, is that this failure may have been in part the result of dementia that was beginning to affect Dulles. Listening to baseball Planning for the Bay of Pigs invasion began under President Dwight Eisenhower. As soon as Dulles was given the assignment, he did something he had never done before in his eight years as CIA director: He turned over a vital assignment to another officer and stopped paying attention to it. The person Dulles chose, Richard Bissell, did almost all the talking every time the two of them went to the White House to brief Eisenhower on the plot. When Bissell briefed the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Dulles did not even attend. Stories of Dulles' increasingly distracted behavior had already begun to circulate quietly at the CIA. One day in 1958, an analyst took him a batch of surveillance photos taken by a U-2 reconnaissance plane but found him unwilling to switch off the baseball game he was listening to. He paid little attention to the photos and remained absorbed in the game, muttering comments like, "He couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a banjo." With the same extreme inattention, he absented himself from planning for the Bay of Pigs. In the weeks before the invasion, secrecy was broken by reporters from Time, The New York Times and other news outlets. The landing spot was changed to a beach, from which the invaders would have no chance to reach mountain hideouts. Kennedy, eager to limit U.S. involvement in the plot, made clear that he would allow only eight planes to provide air cover — not enough to knock out Castro's air force — and would under no circumstances order U.S. Air Force planes to support them. These changes convinced the two men Bissell had chosen to direct the invasion — CIA officer Jacob Esterline and Col. Jack Hawkins of the Marine Corps — to conclude that it would fail. On Sunday morning, April 9, they went to Bissell's home, evidently distraught, and told him the plot was certain to end in "terrible disaster." He told them it was too far advanced to be called off and persuaded them to go back to work. Under other circumstances, these two men might have appealed to Dulles himself. They did not because they understood that Dulles did not know much about the plan, had delegated everything to Bissell and would have nothing to say. On the day of the invasion, Dulles was not even in Washington. Instead he was in San Juan, Puerto Rico, joining Margaret Mead and Dr. Benjamin Spock as speakers at a convention of young businessmen. He returned late at night. "Well, how is it going?" he asked the aide who met his plane in Baltimore. "Not very well, sir," the aide said. Dulles' only reply was, "Oh, is that so?" The two men chatted on the ride to Dulles' home in Georgetown. After they arrived, Dulles invited his aide in for a drink. Over whiskey, he shifted the subject away from Cuba and began rambling aimlessly. The aide later described this conversation as "unreal." Sobering lessons After the invasion failed, Dulles fell into a period of shock. Then–Attorney General Robert Kennedy later wrote that he "looked like living death" and "was always putting his head in his hands." John Kennedy dismissed him a few months later. The declassified transcript of a closed hearing that the Senate Foreign Relations Committee held two weeks after the invasion shows that some of Kennedy's advisers attributed the fiasco to Dulles' dreamy absentmindedness. "He showed up at meetings and sat there smoking his pipe," said Admiral Arleigh Burke, chief of naval operations. "I blame him for not being there." Years later, in an oral history now available at the Dulles family archives at Princeton University, another witness to the disaster, William Bundy, made a similar judgment. "I had the feeling that by then, he was slowing down a bit," said Bundy, who at that time worked under Paul Nitze, Assistant Secretary of State for International Security Affairs. "He hadn't been quite the man I had known. All through, he hadn't been as much on top of the operation as I expected." Several years after his forced retirement, Dulles wrote rambling notes for an essay defending his performance, but his sister, Eleanor Dulles, persuaded him not to publish it because "he had already begun to lose his command over his memory and ideas." In retirement, he began losing his way on the streets of Georgetown. "Perhaps it was what we call Alzheimer's disease today," a cousin, Eleanor Elliot, who cared for him later suggested. She recognized what no one at the White House or CIA had seen — or dared to mention — in the weeks leading up to the Bay of Pigs invasion. When Allen Dulles died in 1969, obituaries focused on his responsibility for what one called "the greatest U.S. intelligence blunder." His appalling performance may be explained at least in part by the onset of dementia. It taught Kennedy what he called "sobering lessons," but it remains the low point of his presidency. <quote off> That's the guy top perps picked to orchestrate the murder of JFK? If you buy that I happen to own concessions on a couple of bridges here in the Bay Area and I can get you great deal. I recommend the orange one.
  13. Check out the Stephen Kinzer book The Brothers: John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, and Their Secret World War The problem came a-cropper during the Bay of Pigs when Dulles behaved detached from the entire enterprise. There was far more pressure on Kennedy not to take military action than pressure to intervene.
  14. Demonstrably incorrect. Averell Harriman negotiated the partition of Laos in the face of uniform opposition from the American foreign policy/military establishment. Only Kennedy approved of the 1962 Geneva Accords which gave the communists the eastern part of Laos with the Ho Chi MinhTrail (a/k/a The Averell Harriman Highway) and the military penetration of South Vietnam; the United States got the western part of Laos with the poppy fields and intelligence penetration of China. Dividing countries into separate halves is action -- an action Kennedy took no where else. What other countries did Kennedy partition? Absolve Dulles of what? Conspiring with Freeport to whack Kennedy? According to DiEugenio Dulles worked with Freeport when he was on the Saudi Arabia desk at Sullivan Cromwell over a decade before Kennedy was killed. That's your proof Dulles and Freeport conspired? Wasn't just Lovett complaining. Dulles had significant opposition in the Eastern Liberal Establishment. You cited Indonesia as a possible motive to whack Kennedy, and you claim Dulles helped orchestrate the JFK murder. I challenge those views. Indonesia wasn't a life-or-death investment for Freeport, and Kennedy's death didn't solve their difficulties there. Allen Dulles sleep-walked his way thru the Bay of Pigs invasion -- who would hire someone that flaky to orchestrate a Presidential assassination? Dulles had Alzheimers, which made him more fit for a patsy jacket than the mastermind hat.
  15. That and the pronunciation of "Lay-oceans" as "Lay-o-tins." He could have got that stuff about the badges out of books.