Michael Walton

Uhh, no. Very wrong. You must not know many other things about the case including it being impossible for someone to pull off the shooting feat that the WC wants to pin on LHO, the way with mere minutes after the shooting a description goes out based on not Oswald's description but a guy named Webster from three years before, and many other items. It's good that you've read Newman's work but please read State Secret by Bill Simpich. You'll see how it all came together there and there's solid evidence to show that LHO had not even gone to MC.

It doesn't look like he was "thrusting his fist" as the car went by... Without veering too far into fantasyland, the most I'll say about those two guys is that their movements were "interesting" during and after the shooting. I also found this interesting - not saying it's true but interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Bosch Was this movie ever released as the start of this thread is almost a year old?

Yes, I agree with everything you say here. The man was set up, there's no question about it.

Thanks for doing this Bart I look forward to reading it. Kudos.

Yes I made that and I did not modify the image in any way except ONLY to highlight that that guy everyone things is Lansdale has glasses on.

Was it really that "dangerous" and "risky" as you describe it? They had more than enough guns to get the job done. Yes, if they were going to have a single Day of the Jackal guy there, then yes, that to me would have been risky. But they didn't. If we are to believe this was a coup with multiple shooters, then that greatly lessens the risk and dangerousness of it. Hatred has a way of building up an individual's or a team's confidence. Everyone was highly motivated to get the job done to the point of possibly over-shooting their hand so to speak. They totally and completely took advantage of the surrounding area - the crowds had thinned out, everyone who was there was - for the most part - happy and smiling and waving. The entire motorcade may have started off a little nervous with the big crowds and the building windows open on both sides. But they were at the tail end of the parade and with nothing but good vibes, Dealey was nothing more than an afterthought. Take a look at this photo below. Would you ever - today - see a presidential procession like this with all of the craziness and hate out there that we read see almost on a daily basis? Of course not. So this whole "Landsdale and Hunt and Hoover and Bush were lurking around after the shooting" craziness is just speculation and fantasy.

Here's what he had on when they took him out of the picture show. Same shirt you see him wearing at the police department. I was under the impression that he only "...changed his britches" after he left the TSBD.

Unless there is absolute photographic proof that someone can show a full-frontal photo of Lansdale standing there minutes after the shooting with a walkie-talkie in his hand, this is all nothing but a bunch of hokum, and urban legend. That seems to be the problem with "researchers" here - read State Secret and you will see the mechanics behind what was happening to Oswald while he was in the USSR and after he returned. Yes, Lansdale, Morales, Bill Harvey and the usual cast of characters are mentioned in it. Does it mean they were actually there manning the phones and throwing the rifles in the trunks of the get away cars? Of course not. They didn't need to be there anyway. Just like Hoover, Nixon, Hunt, Mac Wallace and others did not need to be there (if you choose to believe those people had a hand in it). Has anyone not ever seen the film Clear and Present Danger? Though fictional, remember the shooters being dropped into the staging area? Where were the big wigs monitoring the action? There? Of course not - they were monitoring 50 and 1000 miles away. And the only people on the ground were the shooters. That's all. So why would they risk having the planners actually there standing around in Dealey possibly being exposed on film and photo? Try to give the planners a little credit for planning it out carefully; otherwise, they would have had to have been the dumbest masterminds of all time to have actually been there.

I find it very hard to believe that any of the generals could have been involved in the murder. For all of their bluster, it would have taken a lot of planning and manipulating to get all of the pieces in place, including hooking up LHO with the White Russian community after he returned from the USSR and so on. There could have been very hushed rumors going around among them and the government itself about the impending murder, but the actual mechanics of getting it done was IMO a much smaller affair, not some big showy event with the generals manned at their phones commanding people down in NO and Dallas to get LHO to hand out flyers in NO, to get him the job in Dealey, etc. I think Simpich's State Secret pretty much shows all of those mechanics taking place, so who needed Lemintzer or LeMay doing this or how could they even have been involved? It was totally unnecessary anyway. Although State Secret does not show the ultimate smoking gun - documentation showing who pulled the trigger in the crossfire - it's obvious that somewhere along the way, this plan was piggy-backed to change who the assassination target was going to be. I just cannot see any of the generals being involved.

Look through this thread at the photo I put together. They're not sunglasses.

Sandy It's really, truly great that you support this as IMO it's a very solid theory with game-changing results if it's ever proven that it's LHO. Kudos to you and kudos to Bart and others for finding the figure in the dusty shadows of that film clip.

Not at all. Read State Secret. It explains pretty much everything you need to know about the Oswald that was over there in the USSR, came back with Marina, was led around by the White Russians, by Banister, started working in the book building, was arrested and killed two days later in Dallas. I'm not going to say anything more about you (Sandy) and others believing in HL. Whatever you want to believe is what you believe. The same goes for me and others.

I'm not saying Wiki is always accurate but it does a pretty good job of explaining things as long as things are sourced. I've contributed to Wiki and I've always sourced my material. The whole point I'm trying to make is you're barking up the wrong tree with Thornley. Did you read State Secret? I'm reading it again. You can pretty much track the real Oswald and what's happening to him while he was over in the USSR. As others explained with Bolton - so someone said Oswald and it was written down on the order request. Big deal. It happened supposedly two whole years before the assassination. So Guy Banister's outfit was the original requester of the trucks. We all know Banister got Oswald to hand out the leaflets in NO later. Fine. It's one more piece of evidence that Oswald was being sheep dipped to make him look like a mad Marxist. That's all. It's got nothing to do with this supposed Oswald's Hungarian clone. Read State Secret. There is absolutely nothing in there about a supposed impostor. But one thing you will find interesting is how the Oswald legend that started minutes after the shooting in Dallas actually goes back to the description of LHO and Webster. All of this makes far more logical and plausible sense than this clone story. Look at the photos above that were posted. Can you really - deep down in the recesses of your mind - say that all of those photos look like two different people? They really don't. People don't always look precisely the same from photo to photo and from different time periods.

This is a good post. I'm deaf and believe me if I'd have been on the 5th floor underneath the nest with 3 loud bangs I'd have been scared xxxxless.

That photo that shows Oswald turning around - where his bare arm is showing - and the Marine next to it, is spot on! He even holds his hands in a certain way in both photos. I think the height captions are disingenuous - it's the same guy.

Mathias, read Thornley's wiki page. Do you really think it's worth even discussing? He knew LHO fleetingly then being a clever person wrote about it to make a buck, like Hargrove is trying to keep this silly story on the up and up so suckers keep buying the $60 fairy tale. That's all there is about Thornley and why you're asking Hargrove, as if he's a huge fount of knowledge about the case is beyond me. Look around as he only cares about this silly nonsense.

He has his arms behind his back in the Marine photo, David. It could make your shoulders slope downward more. I already addressed the passport (I think it's the passport photo) with the Dallas mugshot and it's spot on - the same person. Two others who no longer post on the Gems thread saw my animated GIF and agreed with me. Even Hargrove kinda/sorta agreed but of course Larsen - who has swallowed this tale hook, line, and sinker with absolutely no wiggle room - completely disagreed. He did sound a little desperate (e.g., "BUT JIM....") LOL Can't people change, David? He was skinny before the Marines (probably underfed since his Mom and he were scrounging around) and bulked up when joining the Marines - the way they work you out in boot camp would beef up even the skinniest of runts. Then he went to Russia and came back and it was probably more of the same - less eating and no longer working out. My goodness - those photos are the same person, David. Do you really, truly not see it? It does amaze me how well you wrote that MC story and fall for this fairy tale so miserably. I think, too, you are being very clever and dishonest the way you have that one photo labeled "5-10 165" as if that proves there are two people with different heights. Bill Simpich clearly explained how the taller height came into being in "State Secret" and it has absolutely nothing to do with a clone. I know you know this being the researcher you are so it's even more surprising you're trying to manipulate the story here to fit the round peg into the square hole.

Ha I know my reply here is not adding to the narrative but just wanted to say this a REALLY FUNNY line...

Paul - the link to it is way up above. You basically have to use the Way Back Machine website and it finds it.

Sandy, to be honest - does it really matter? There was a link way at the beginning of this thread that showed an old link by a guy named Dunne who showed that all of the White Russian community folks who tried to show LHO was a wife beater were all debunked. That debunking pretty much shows that the people LHO were surrounded by when he returned to TX with Marina in tow were there for a not-so-innocent reason. So according to your find that he did hit his wife - once - OK. Fine. In the final analysis it still does not change the fact that the sole purpose of all of this "he was a wife beater" testimony was a way to make LHO look like a crazed Marxist wife-beating (violent) LONE ASSASSIN.

The guy walking past the tramps with his back to the camera had glasses on. It doesn't really prove anything, but I've yet to find a photo of Lansdale wearing them. And again, it strains credulity to assume he was there, just like it strains credulity to assume Howard Hunt and others were there. There's simply no reason for them to have been there in the first place. If we are to believe that the 6th floor was the stage to blame Oswald, with the stacked boxes and shells (one of them with a dented lip) laying there, and if we're to believe that Oswald had been steered into the building to be an employee there by October 63, setting the stage, it was just a simple matter of putting the shooters in place. The car goes by, they come out and fire, and disappear...and the deed is done. The "fireworks" (as Ruby said) were over and it's now just a matter of building the case against the patsy. Somewhere along the way, Oswald lived until Sunday when Ruby gunned him down and that certainly made the official narrative much easier to do. But why have Hunt, Lansdale, Bush, and others lurking when the story can now be controlled in Washington? Your analogy here is similar to how people see things because they WANT to see things similar to the faces people see on other planets. It's all shadows and light but because folks WANT to believe, it then becomes something more:

The dust on his shirt could be anything. He could have simply got it when he was leaning out the window. I'm sure that building was not the cleanest place in the world. I do find it hard to believe that he (whoever said it) hear the clinking of the shells hitting the floor when there were motorcycle backfires, cars, clapping and yelling while all of this was going on.

Bart, as I say here on this forum, you and others' work on this is the one true lead to prove Oswald's innocence. As I've said elsewhere, his lurking around "out front..." (that's what he said) and being captured on film bookends nicely with his "I'm a patsy" statement until he was gunned down on Sunday. Also, just ignore all of the other naysayers like Larsen, Josephs and so on. Yours is backed up by solid circumstantial evidence unlike the others who go off on crazy flights of fantasy such as there was an Oswald clone, all of the films were faked, the assassination nerve center - with Dulles, Hoover, Nixon, LBJ, Lincoln and Ford hunched over the console - was down in the basement of Ruby's nightclub, and other silliness. Any news or updates on if the TV station is still holding back the original footage?

Jim - we're also waiting for your reply. Can you clarify why one of your supporters is saying the school records were forged and you're saying that these same records were made to disappear? I mean think about it. It doesn't make a one iota of sense. If the records were NOT forged - the opposite of what Josephs is claiming and they STILL showed there were two little Oswalds running around - then yes, your claim that they were trying to make the records disappear would make some semblance of sense. But if the records DID NOT show or CANNOT prove that there were two Oswalds and they needed to be forged to show that there WERE two Oswalds, what would be the point of doing this when the government wanted to show all along that Oswald was nothing but a crazed lone gun man? But you cannot have it both ways so it's important that you clarify this.