Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton


      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team

Michael Clark

  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Michael Clark

  1. Steve Miller Band

    Serenade under the Stars
  2. (I added some bold-type to the above.) That's great Jim! As always, your knowledge, research and genius always smacks-down the trolls!
  3. Michael likes to quote people without using the quote function. They won't get a notification and won't be ably to reply, like there was a debate going on. Quoting Dawn, since Michael didn't.
  4. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Michael Clark wrote; "-There is a document from the US embassy in Moscow describing LHO having visited and turned-in his passport. This was not brought-up in this thred so it is not handy. When I find it I will post it here." I found the US Russian embassy account of LHO's renunciation of citizenship, and passport surrender at the following US archives link to Appendix 15 of the WCR: https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-15.html#attempts Page 747 OSWALD'S ATTEMPTS TO RENOUNCE HIS U.S. CITIZENSHIP American officials in Moscow had no knowledge that Oswald was in Russia until October 31, 1959,5 more than 2 weeks after he had arrived, since he failed to register at the U.S. Embassy, as Americans traveling through Russia normally did.6 However, on October 31, 1959, a Saturday, Oswald presented himself at the American Embassy in Moscow.7 He placed his passport on the receptionist's desk and informed her that he had come to "dissolve his American citizenship." 8 She immediately summoned the consul, Richard E. Snyder, who invited Oswald into his office.9 In the room with Snyder was his assistant, John A. McVickar, who observed what ensued.10 Snyder recalled Oswald as "neatly and very presentably dressed," 11 but he also remembered his arrogance. Oswald seemed to "know what his mission was. He took charge in a sense, of the conversation right from the beginning." 12 Oswald stated at once that he was there to renounce his citizenship 13 and that "his allegiance was to the Soviet Union." 14 He said he had already applied for Soviet citizenship.15 He said he knew the provisions of American law on loss of citizenship and did not want to hear them reviewed by Snyder.16 Having taken his passport back from the receptionist, Oswald put it on Snyder's desk.17 Snyder noticed that Oswald had inked out the portion which would have shown his address in the United States.18 Oswald also presented Snyder with a note 19 which he had prepared in advance, which reads: Oswald told Snyder that he had not mentioned his intent to remain in the Soviet Union to the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki at the time he had applied for his tourist visa.21 Oswald's passport, upon which his Soviet visa was stamped, shows that by the 31st of October he had already overstayed his visa, despite a 1-day extension which he had received.22 Oswald gave as his "principal reason" for wanting to renounce his citizenship, "I am a Marxist." 23 He stated that he admired the system and policies of the Soviet Union and desired to serve the Soviet
  5. Philadelphia did-it

    The floor is open for debate.....
  6. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    As is often the case, Paul Trejo's assertions, when found to be blatantly dishonest, always lead me to the exact opposite of the blatantly and patently false claim that he is making. After the recent exchange with Paul Trejo I have come to think that LHO's surrender of his passport, renounciation of US citizenship and apllication for Soviet citizenship, while in Russia, are germane to the case, and also point to his being a CIA asset at that time. This is a conclusion that I was not, previously, an adherent of. The false case which Paul Trejo was dishonestly trying to make is that LHO was a flunky, loser, Commie who failed in his effort to be absorbed into Russia and the Communist Party. It seems clear to me know that he was CIA asset at that time. In relation to the topic of this thread, the fact that (as I now believe) he was a CIA, points to his being set-up, if only contingently, as a patsy, as early as the Walker shooting. I hate to admit it but I agree with Paul Trejo that the CIA, as an agency, did not do it. CIA rogues, assets and resources did play a key role in the JFKA. Worthy of note, I don't believe that Angleton knew obout the plot, and Dulles was not a participant. further, since you revised your comment, above, from awareness of LHO's passport surrender and Citizenship renunciation I'll remind you of the documents that support these events. -LHO's Diary, declaring that he had surrendered his passport. -LHO's Diary, describing his efforts to repossess his passport before returning to the US. -The document from the Yeltsin Cache, generated by The Soviet Governent that LHO had applied for citizenship. --The document from the Yeltsin Cache, generated by The Soviet Governent that LHO had been denied citizenship. -There is a document from the US embassy in Moscow describing LHO having visited and turned-in his passport. This was not brought-up in this thred so it is not handy. When I find it I will post it here. -it should be noted that Paul Trejo's claim that he was constantly invited to join the Communist Party, but refused, is blatantly dishonest. Paul Trejo has never been able to support that claim. If he comes up with support for that, I will eat crow. I will also make a separate thread on this so that thread can be referred-to when Paul Trejo, once again, tries to dishonestly pass off this story, which is nothing but bunk. Too many times have threads been derailed by this; and a separate thread which can be linked should keep that from happening again.
  7. John McAdams Loses...AGAIN!

    DVP says: "Was I the first person to write a post in this thread devoted to "NAA"? Answer: No. Who was? Answer: Sandy Larsen. And who was the first person to mention "NAA" in this thread? Answer: Jimmy DiEugenio." ------------- LoL, boy did you get right Jim. DVP went and did exactly what you said he would do. That is perfect!
  8. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Because this represents Paul Trejo's blatant dishonesty, I have to address this more precisely. The three dots, above, that sit between "Oswald" and "be granted" omit the following, from my quotation of the original Russian Document. ... "who has applied for US Citizenship," ... Paul changes his story to (bold is mine): "2. After ONE YEAR was over, Lee Harvey Oswald did not pursue any procedure to apply for Russian citizenship. He just kept living there on his temporary visa. (By the way -- one could not be a member of the Russian Communist Party without that citizenship.) "
  9. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Yet, Paul would have us believe that a note from General Walker, written 13 years after the assassination, claiming the the Dallas Police arrested LHO 2 days after attempting to murder him (Walker) is solid, primary evidence that this was so.
  10. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Jason, I understand and respect that, yet, as you may find, a pile of details becomes an argument and a comprehensive theory at some point. Paul Trejo's tid-bits of bunk, likewise, become a pille of bunk. The tid bits of bunk need to be challenged as he drops them around the forum IMO.
  11. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Paul, regarding prejudiced conclusions. You are the one that said the all incidents of impersonation can be explained as a case of mistaken identity. That, Mr. Trejo, is a prejudiced conclusion, and you think you can use your Hagelian Dialectics to make it so. Dialectics don't exist without a second party to work with the principals. You don't seem to get that.
  12. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Complete Bunk Paul, your selective quotes do not even support your contention that LHO did not give up his passport. His Diary and US consulate documents state that he did surrender the passport, and that he had to return to get them before leaving. Paul, Reading "CAREFULLY" does not mean using Hegelian Dailecticsmto turn facts into your personal bunk, regardless of what you think, try, or expect other members to swallow.
  13. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    I have a TYPO in there, but Paul Trejo could have read the Doc. Instead he decided do play with that. It should read ".... has applied for Soviet Citzenship."
  14. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    And here is the link to the index for those papers https://www.history-matters.com/archive/contents/other/contents_yeltsin.htm
  15. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    No problem. It is indeed very enlightening.
  16. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Jason, I agree. The point is that: Paul Trejo makes up stuff and repeats it, ad infinitum,and ignores all evidence to the contrary. Jason, Since Paul appears to be using you to further perpetuate his bunk, and he is ignoring me, I'll ask you to challenge his affirmative statement that "LHO was repeatedly asked to join the Communist Party, in Russia, but he refused" (semi quoting here). He asked you to show evidence to the contrary. He is making an affirmative statement. He should have that evidence. He does not have it, because he is making it up.
  17. Philadelphia did-it

    The "Cheeze Mafia" report was interesting. Thanks Chris.
  18. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    More stinking bunk from Paul Trejo. "Oswald refused to give up his US Passport to the very last day. " Paul, the last day of what? And who did he refuse? You make it sound like he was being asked to give up his passport, which is pure myth that you made up and you perpetuate in spite of the evidence that says the exact opposite. He refused to join the Communist Party in Russia. Paul, He was never offered or encouraged to join the Community. He was inquiring about it and was discouraged from doing so. He refused Russian citizenship Paul, he was never offered Citizenship. He requested Citizenship and was denied. Paul wrote: "Oswald refused to give up his US Passport to the very last day. He refused to join the Communist Party in Russia. He refused Russian citizenship. He was a poser. As soon as Marina crooked her little finger and said, "Let's go to the USA, honey," Oswald was packed and spent months fighting the system to get them all out. That's what the paperwork actually shows. The US State Department has all these records. Paul Trejo, The state department records show efforts to leave them USSR. They indicate nothing about Marina controlling Oswald, and the state department records (letters between LHO and US government offices) do not support your bunk about LHO's Citizenship status, party status. Paul Trejo, you are forever fabricating bunk, for who knows what reason. You forever refuse to consider documented evidence and favor your fabrications.
  19. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    From this Soviet document that is part of the Yeltsin cache. Paul Trejo has ignored me every time I put this, and LHO's diary in front of him. https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/other/yeltsin/html/Yeltsin_0003a.htm excerpt: Department of Language Services To: Gormyko et al 1. Agree with the proposal by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the USSR and the Comittee for state security of the Council of Ministers of the USSR that US national, Lee Harvey Oswald, who has applied for US Citizenship, be granted rights of temporary sojourn for one year..... ---------------------- Paul Trejo just ignores whatever is not useful to him.
  20. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    PAUL TREJO wrote: Paul, Read this: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/other/yeltsin/html/Yeltsin_0003a.htm And this: Warren Commission Exhibit 24. The Diary of LHO: -------------------------------------------- Oct. 16. Arrive from Helsinki by train; am met by Intourest Repre. and in car to Hotel "Berlin". Reges. as. "studet" 5 day Lux. tourist. Ticket.) Meet my Intorist guied Rhimma Sherikova I explain to her I wish to appli. for Rus. citizenship. She is flabbergassed, but aggrees to help. She checks with her boss, main office Intour; than helps me add. a letter to Sup. Sovit asking for citizenship, mean while boss telephons passport & visa office and notifies them about me. --------------------------------------- Oct. 31. I make my dision. Getting passport at 12"O0 ..... I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. 12"30, I arrive American Embassy, I walk in and say to the receptionist 'I would like to see the Consular" she points at a large lager and says "If you are a tourist please register". I take out my American passport and lay it in the desk, I have come to dissolve my American citizenship. I saymatter-of-factly she rises and enters the office of Richard Snyder American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit down. He finishes a letter he is typing and than ask what he can do for me. I tell him I have decided to take Soviet citezenship and would like to dissolve my U.S. Citizenship..... ------------------------------------------ July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about geting my U. S. passport back and make arrangements for my wife to enter the U. S. with me. ------------------------------------------ There is no mention at all, in his diary, of joining the Communist Party, not joining the Communist Party, nor of being invited to join the Communist Party, much less being 'Continually invited to join the party", while in The USSR.
  21. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Paul, are you saying that Oswald's diary is not real evidence?
  22. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Paul Trejo, why bother? You just said that your just going to reply: "that's just a case of mistaken identity" or "they were rogue CIA agents". The Furniture Mart is the best incident that there was someone setting Oswald up. And it does not mean the CIA did it. But Paul Trejo will twist, dodge, evade, blow smoke or use some sophistry or Hegelian Dialectic to preserve his funky fiction.
  23. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    No, but it is evidence that Paul Trejo repeatedly peddles bunk that he knows is false.
  24. WHEN does Oswald crystallize into the patsy?

    Well, yeah, he is maintaining that LHO tried to kill him, for starters. I don't happen to believe that.