HSCA

[John Dolva]

Accepted.

The technology exists, at some cost, to digitise the entire plat in one go when the time comes to do so. Some better off, better situated members can assist.

The HSCA,Drommer and West can probably be said to be conclusively independently shown as being the same (apart from differences related to when they were done).

The problem with HSCA is that the resolution, as available, introduces a sizeable margin of error and my particular areas of interest in researching film synchs therefore cannot be done. I need to know exactly where the main street light poles were and have a continuous confirmation through to the Z pedestal, as well as a number of other far off connected points. Mine and others areas of research do not fully coincide, but I suspect taken as a whole are interrelated.

_______________

Kathy, thank you. I appreciate all opportunities to deal with the less pleasant anspects of inner self. So, provocation sincerely appreciated.

(As stated on a number of occasions I try to seek no alliance except with truth, even when (to the best of my ability in the moment) that results in damage to my ego. At the same time I try to seek no enemies. People are free to think and do as they wish irrespective of whether I do or don't say that they are or not*.)

(*that's not entirely true, I have issued Executive Order #000001 that all killing, starvation, and abuse of the weak and defenceless be immediately ended. Unfortunately it is not adhered to, yet hope springs eternal.)

Edited June 13, 2007 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Accepted.

The technology exists, at some cost, to digitise the entire plat in one go when the time comes to do so. Some better off, better situated members can assist.

The HSCA,Drommer and West can probably be said to be conclusively independently shown as being the same (apart from differences related to when they were done).

The problem with HSCA is that the resolution, as available, introduces a sizeable margin of error and my particular areas of interest in researching film synchs therefore cannot be done. I need to know exactly where the main street light poles were and have a continuous confirmation through to the Z pedestal, as well as a number of other far off connected points. Mine and others areas of research do not fully coincide, but I suspect taken as a whole are interrelated.

_______________

Kathy, thank you. I appreciate all opportunities to deal with the less pleasant anspects of inner self. So, provocation sincerely appreciated.

(As stated on a number of occasions I try to seek no alliance except with truth, even when (to the best of my ability in the moment) that results in damage to my ego. At the same time I try to seek no enemies. People are free to think and do as they wish irrespective of whether I do or don't say that they are or not*.)

(*that's not entirely true, I have issued Executive Order #000001 that all killing, starvation, and abuse of the weak and defenceless be immediately ended. Unfortunately it is not adhered to, yet hope springs eternal.)

John;

As I long ago mentioned, one of my many thousands of "cousins" here in George County, as well as also being a descendent of the "Howell" family tree, happens to be the County Surveyor.

Gerald (Moody) has the complete CADS system with all survey capability, to include the ability to duplicate in relative large size, virtually any information.

Although I do not know the full extent of his ability to enlarge, I have a 22-inch X 33-inch survey plat of my land which he made for me.

And even if he could not reproduce the 40-inch X 60-inch of the WC Survey Plat, he would know exactly where I could get it done, and he has the capability to put it on disc for me.

Just another of those time-consuming items which is on my listing of things to do some day, yet it has no great relevance as to taking priority over other items related to work on my land, etc; etc.

Lastly, the below link should remind all that the WC was fully aware of the impact point of the first shot fired, long before their "re-enactment"!

If recalled, I had also provided this information, which virtually none knew existed, which also demonstrates the el 423 for the first shot fired impact point as well as the el 418 for the impact point of the Z313 headshot, which lists it as the last shot.

Although I have no current means to confirm the suspicion, it would appear that this drawing and it's mathmaticl work is what laid the ground work for how to utilize frames of the Z-film as correlation data for setting/establishment of vehicle speed.

Lastly, I might add that although the drawing shows the original SS Impact point for the first shot, the calculations demonstrate 90 feet traveled in elapsed time of 5.5 seconds as the basis for calculations.

This is not the actual distance between the (first shot) 423.7 elevation and the Z-313 headshot at elevation of 418.48

As I have repeatedly demonstrated, the US SS as well as the FBI, too include the WC, were fully aware of the impact position of the first shot fired in the assassination.

From "best information" survey data, theTime/Life survey data places this to be at some point which plats between Z204 to Z206, with no Z-frame# assigned. This may in fact be off somewhat due to the poor survey information which was initially gained for determination of the impact point as well as completion of the survey plat. The failure to gain accurate information relative to distances; height; etc; etc; resulted in a survey plat which is completely useless for determination of anything accurate.

The US Secret Service (& FBI) (which Mr. West personally supervised) was data which was as accurate as physically possible and it determined the first shot impact to have been at a point on Elm St. where Mr. West drove a nail and which bears the elevation of 423.07, and was thereafter also utilized as an established control station.

This impact point correlates with Frame#210 of the Z-film, for which we actually have no true survey data. However, with the information available, it can be determined that this elevation falls at some point approximately at Z210 to Z212.

Thus, it is most likely no coincidence that we have problems associated with the Z-film in exactly this location.

However, neither the SS nor the FBI took into consideration the actual aiming elevation of JFK's head, and thus there are different downward angles of fire for this work as compared to the WC work which raised the impact point on Elm St, above the pavement to correspond to the elevation of JFK's head. Same point on the street, just different aiming point elevations.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

[John Dolva]

Tom: "This impact point correlates with Frame#210 of the Z-film, for which we actually have no true survey data. However, with the information available, it can be determined that this elevation falls at some point approximately at Z210 to Z212.

Thus, it is most likely no coincidence that we have problems associated with the Z-film in exactly this location."

Agreed, though I suggest this is because the first viewers of the unbroken flm saw this shot happening and therefore (understandably) forwarded and backwarded at different speeds again and again thus stressing and damaging the sprocket holes so that the film eventually was too weakened and broke. The repair that followed then meant that in combining frames to repair this section there are half/full frames that have disappeared and are unrecoverable unless the pre-break copies can be made available.

____________

Tom, and anyone elso who has good copies, there are two frames of Muchmore where just as the Limo is passing Altgens that appear to me to have a red mist on the top right of the frames that rises and quickly dissipates and disappears from the cameras field of view as it pans. This is the only image indication I've come across that indicates a shot hit Kennedy at this point. Perhaps others with good copies could look and see?

The Z film has Kennedy's head moving forward at this point as well, but it really looks to me that it is Jackie that pushes it forward or out of the way as she rises to reach over the trunk. (or boot) of the Limo. One needs to localise the stabilisation/alignment of frames at this point to see it clearly happening.

Edited June 13, 2007 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom: "This impact point correlates with Frame#210 of the Z-film, for which we actually have no true survey data. However, with the information available, it can be determined that this elevation falls at some point approximately at Z210 to Z212.

Thus, it is most likely no coincidence that we have problems associated with the Z-film in exactly this location."

Agreed, though I suggest this is because the first viewers of the unbroken flm saw this shot happening and therefore (understandably) forwarded and backwarded at different speeds again and again thus stressing and damaging the sprocket holes so that the film eventually was too weakened and broke. The repair that followed then meant that in combining frames to repair this section there are half/full frames that have disappeared and are unrecoverable unless the pre-break copies can be made available.

____________

Tom, and anyone elso who has good copies, there are two frames of Muchmore where just as the Limo is passing Altgens that appear to me to have a red mist on the top right of the frames that rises and quickly dissipates and disappears from the cameras field of view as it pans. This is the only image indication I've come across that indicates a shot hit Kennedy at this point. Perhaps others with good copies could look and see?

The Z film has Kennedy's head moving forward at this point as well, but it really looks to me that it is Jackie that pushes it forward or out of the way as she rises to reach over the trunk. (or boot) of the Limo. One needs to localise the stabilisation/alignment of frames at this point to see it clearly happening.

As with most items, researchers have neglected to go back and determine much of the "genesis" of many items, to include those frames (which included Z210) which the WC "neglected" to publish for us.

Later, it was claimed that their reasoning was that they did not get these frames of the film from Time/Life.

Any serious researcher should however known that they:

A. Altered Survey Data to represent survey data for frame# 210.

B. Provided a "composite" of their re-enactment work which included frame# 210 in the composite.

Lastly, what is simply amazing is that everyone, including the WC, could apparantly determine the approximate location for impact of the first shot, and beginning with the US SS work of 12/5/63, this exact location never changed through multiple survey work and re-enactment data. Up and through the re-work for the FBI of the survey plat, in June of 1964.

Yet, for some mystical reasoning, what we now see is not sufficient to determine when JFK is seen to first react to the first shot.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?

Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?

Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.

Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot -

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do

Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THERE IS NO MAGIC!

However! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm

[Thomas H. Purvis]

In closing (hopefully) explanations of the HSCA survey work, it should be noted that there is much about it that merely confirms that it is nothing more than a "replay" of what the SS & WC had long prior established.

And, not unlike the attempts by the WC to obfuscate the information by beginning their survey work at "Position "A", in order to confuse the stationing numbers, the HSCA utilized no station numbers, no Z-film frame#'s and utilized control elevations which to the uninformed would appear as having been randomly chosen/established as el. 100.00 and thus worked from there.

Not so either!

In demonstration of this, one must absolutely be in possession of the West Survey notes in order to determine where Mr. West first established his correct ASL (above sea level) elevation, as well as where he thereafter initially carried his elevation control into Dealy Plaza.

1. True elevation control was found at an established Benchmark located at the NW corner of the County Court Building.

This established Brass Marker SCP had an elevation of 433.97.

2. From this point, Mr. West established a temporary benchmark onto the curb of Elm St. for work which proceeded down Elm St.

The location of this TBM was on the South curb of Elm, on the radius section where the concrete curb & gutter makes/basically completes it's full radius onto Elm St.

TBM elevation for this control point was 428.94 to the top of concrete for the curb, and the location was almost parallel with what became stationing 2+77.

As with any good surveyor, Mr. West actually had a means established in which he could easily go back, even days or months later, and locate this exact TBM.

In determination of the location of this TBM, Mr. West utilized alignment and measurements from other known points in Dealy Plaza.

And, in that regards, one can now, to an extremely high degree of accuracy, locate onto the HSCA survey plat, the TBM location which Mr. West established during the 12/5/63 (3rd, 4th, 5th) work for the US Secret Service in which the great majority of all survey work was done.

I would also add at this point, that the HSCA Survey personnel, quite obviously utilized Mr. West same reference points in establishment of their base elevation of "100", which happens to be located in the center of the curb radius which is located where the service road in front of the TSDB and Elm St intersect, directly in front of the TSDB.

This HSCA TBM is located directly West of the street light in this radius section, and can be easily recognized as to it's location.

[Michael Hogan]

.....would you care to share with us your personal and/or genetic reason for being completely ignorant of the facts in the subject matter of the JFK assassination?

You can go first.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

In closing (hopefully) explanations of the HSCA survey work, it should be noted that there is much about it that merely confirms that it is nothing more than a "replay" of what the SS & WC had long prior established.

And, not unlike the attempts by the WC to obfuscate the information by beginning their survey work at "Position "A", in order to confuse the stationing numbers, the HSCA utilized no station numbers, no Z-film frame#'s and utilized control elevations which to the uninformed would appear as having been randomly chosen/established as el. 100.00 and thus worked from there.

Not so either!

In demonstration of this, one must absolutely be in possession of the West Survey notes in order to determine where Mr. West first established his correct ASL (above sea level) elevation, as well as where he thereafter initially carried his elevation control into Dealy Plaza.

1. True elevation control was found at an established Benchmark located at the NW corner of the County Court Building.

This established Brass Marker SCP had an elevation of 433.97.

2. From this point, Mr. West established a temporary benchmark onto the curb of Elm St. for work which proceeded down Elm St.

The location of this TBM was on the South curb of Elm, on the radius section where the concrete curb & gutter makes/basically completes it's full radius onto Elm St.

TBM elevation for this control point was 428.94 to the top of concrete for the curb, and the location was almost parallel with what became stationing 2+77.

As with any good surveyor, Mr. West actually had a means established in which he could easily go back, even days or months later, and locate this exact TBM.

In determination of the location of this TBM, Mr. West utilized alignment and measurements from other known points in Dealy Plaza.

And, in that regards, one can now, to an extremely high degree of accuracy, locate onto the HSCA survey plat, the TBM location which Mr. West established during the 12/5/63 (3rd, 4th, 5th) work for the US Secret Service in which the great majority of all survey work was done.

I would also add at this point, that the HSCA Survey personnel, quite obviously utilized Mr. West same reference points in establishment of their base elevation of "100", which happens to be located in the center of the curb radius which is located where the service road in front of the TSDB and Elm St intersect, directly in front of the TSDB.

This HSCA TBM is located directly West of the street light in this radius section, and can be easily recognized as to it's location.

In order to demonstrate that the survey elevation control as utilized by the HSCA survey work of Drommer is merely a "cameo" of the elevations established by Mr. West during the December 1963 work for the US Secret Service, one must first understand how Mr. West chose a point for which to carry elevation control from the known Benchmark to a new TBM/Temporary Benchmark.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a...ealey_Plaza.jpg

In order to establish a point on the Elm St. curb, Mr. West extended a line off the North wall of the Dallas County Records Bldg. (Bldg# 3).

This line ran parallel with the exterior of the North wall of the building, running eastward and extending down into Elm St., well past the radius of the North & South radius of the street curbs.

Along this alignment, the survey crew chose a point on the alignment at which a 90-degree right turn would run directly through the center of the concrete curb where Drommer/the HSCA survey work established their "random" elevation of 100.

However, Mr. West turned a 90-degree left turn and extended this line until such time as it intersected the curb of Elm St. on the South side of Elm. st.

To this point on the South curb of Elm St. Mr. West survey crew established their TBM on Elm St. with the elevation of 428.94.

In fact, if one will look at the Drommer plat, just to the right of where Mr. West actually established the elevation of 428.94, one will find the Drommer elevation of "99.5".

Which when added to the previously established 329.6, (elevation differences) gives a correct elevation of 429.1, which as one can see is only marginally above the elevation of Mr. West's TBM mark on the curb.

At that point along the extended line which runs from the Courts Building to the point at which a 90-degree right turn takes one to the North curb where Drommer began their random elevation of 100, and at which if one takes a 90-degree left turn to the South curb of Elm St., the distance to the South curb and the TBM established by Mr. West, from the extended Courts Bldg line, was 14.6 feet.

This is the first TBM which Mr. West established along Elm St., and it was from here that all elevation controls along Elm St. were gained from.

Without the knowledge as to how Mr. West established his initial TBM, one would think that Drommer/the HSCA merely chose a convenient point at which to begin their "random" elevation work.

Not so. The Drommer location of el 100 is at the North end of a line which runs from where Mr. West established his TBM on the South curb of Elm St, and which line transects at a 90-degree angle, a line extended from the North wall of the Courts Building, out into Elm St.

Which, along with other data, clearly shows that the Drommer survey work was merely a carryover and modification to the work which was done by Mr. West during December of 1963, and that there is absolutely nothing "seperate" and/or "independent" as regards the Drommer/HSCA survey work.

In this regards, one might think that the Drommer survey plat is of little use. Not so.

Because the Drommer personnel made the mistake of locating various points on the curb and gutter of Elm St. there are certain, almost perfect alignments which can now be established, which could not be that accurately established prior.

Such as the alignment from the Zapruder pedestal across the right-hand post of the road sign, to the curb in the background.

This specific alignment is of critical importance as it was established prior to any moving/relocation of the signs in dealy plaza.

And, although Mr. West Survey notes indicate many of these additional established points, one is merely given distances and angles from other reference points and any attempt to "Plot" on the Plat, these recognized locations is doomed to the inaccuracies of working with small scale items.

Therefore, in addition to demonstrating that the Drommer/HSCA survey work is merely a "replay" with different numbers of the previously established Robert H. West work, the Drommer/HSCA survey is critical in that it is the only document that makes the mistake of giving us the exact alignment from the Zapruder position to the right sign post.

And therefore, the Drommer work is an added EEI (Essential Element of Information) for anyone who seeks to demonstrate exactly how the facts of the survey re-enactment work of the assassination was initially, as well as later, manipulated.

Many, many mistakes were made.

However, as with most things in life, one needs to have some idea as to exactly what it is that they are looking for if they actually plan on recognizing it, when and if it is found.

In fact, any serious researcher should immediately ask: Exactly how is it that Drommer/the HSCA knew exactly where to plot the impact point for the first shot when in fact the WC stated that this cound not be determined and that it probably occurred at some point between Z210 and Z223.

As well as exactly how did they know about Mr. West's SCP/Point in the Park in order to establish the Z313 to Zapruder alignment.

How did they come to utilize the exact North end of the line which Mr. West utilized in establishement of elevation control?

And I might add, the listing continues!

[Chris Davidson]

Excerpts from Thomas Purvis article:

Hope the numbers are readable, the original PDF was awful.

Limo speeds next.

chris

Thanks Chris!

Re-dug this out, which was also a portion of the article which dealt with the alteration of the survey data.

If & when, more persons begin to pay close attention to these facts, they just may come to understand exactly what it takes for a vehicle which in fact almost stopped, to appear to continue at a basically uniform rate of speed.

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

[Myra Bronstein]

Ms. Beckett;

Had you been around this forum for any length of time, you may have learned a few things about "Ole Tom", as well as the JFK Assassination.

Both of which you have demonstrated a crystal clear image that you know absolutely nothing about either.

You launched into a program of attempting to attack my motives, based on the totally unsupported wording of another member, and in which you did not even bother to verify the facts of.

Thus, demonstrating your complete lack of knowledge of anything related to the assassination as well as the previous works which I have openly made available to many on this forum.

Were it not for the fact that you advertise yourself as being a "Teacher', then I could care less as to what you think or do.

However, with this country falling at the bottom of the list in education of our younger generations, it becomes clearly understandable as to why.

Teachers who do not bother to verify their facts, conduct their own research, and thus expouse on items in which they are totally confused, demonstrate to me exactly why, as a society, our educational system is falling flat on it's arse (can not get the other word past the censorship).

And, rest assured that "Ole Tom" has pretty tough skin and can dish it out with the best, or else he would not remain on this forum and continue to make an attempt to assist those who have not yet fallen into the myriad of rabbit holes of the JFK assassination.

You clearly demonstrate much of what I have found on this, as well as other forums.

Individuals who's research consisted of watching multiple re-runs of the movie "JFK".

Few here have even taken the time to read/study/digest/and evaluate the factual evidence of the WC.

Yet, they claim to be "researchers".

Had they taken the time to actually conduct research, then I would not be here having to inform them as to where to look within this evidence to find where the final/last/third/shot of the assassination shooting sequence occurred.

As well as where to look for the witness statements which have always demonstrated this obviously little known fact.

Therefore, might I offer the following, as relaid to me by one of my old college professor's.

"Sit back, shut up, and you just may accidently learn something!"

Or, if you desire, continue to demonstrate your complete ignorance of the subject matter of the JFK assassination, as well as the work which I put into this subject matter many years ago.

Ms. Beckett;

Had you been around this forum for any length of time you may have learned a few things about a few members.

For one thing some members use lack of seniority on the forum as ammunition when they're otherwise unarmed.

They employ the logical fallacy of equating seniority with expertise, and count on everyone to be similiarly deluded.

For another thing those members with the least to teach are often the most didactic and condescending.

Since "Ole Tom" says that you are a teacher, I thought you might find that teaching-related tidbit interesting.

There are also members who seem to think they're able to intimidate people out of questioning their bad behavior.

That demographic is among the most amusing on the forum because they take themselves so excruciatingly excessively

seriously that it's almost impossible for anyone else to take their bluster seriously.

Then there is the rare member who exhibits all of the traits I've described.

So now you've, as "Ole Tom" says, "learned a few things about "Ole Tom."

Not that you needed to learn anything in particular in spite of what some may say.

But, hey, sometimes I like to play teacher.

Myra

[Russ Connelly]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

Chris

Although I only have a limited knowledge of aerial photography, I dont think there is anything to be concerned about. Because of camera angle / tilt, lens distortion and ground relief or elevation, an aerial photograph is not a true geometric representation of what is on the ground.

When using aerial photography for survey purposes (i.e. placing digital lines, geographic symbols, etc) it must first be orthorectified. Software is used to remove the effects described above and the result is a geometrically corrected image (orthoimagery) which can be used to measure distances, etc.

When overlaying onto an aerial photograph one should always expect an accurate trace to differ slightly from the photograph.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Russ Connelly

[Miles Scull]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

Great Chris, very useful & needed data! Zounds!

Do you have a link for Exhibit 365? Can't find it.

(365 Aerial view of Main, Houston, and Elam Streets in downtown Dallas, as marked by Amos Lee Euins. pp 961)

Or can you post a scan of this aerial sans West survey overlay?

And additionally can you please post a scan or mock up render of your composited West survey, hopefully in big size?

Many thx!

Miles

[Miles Scull]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

Chris

Although I only have a limited knowledge of aerial photography, I dont think there is anything to be concerned about. Because of camera angle / tilt, lens distortion and ground relief or elevation, an aerial photograph is not a true geometric representation of what is on the ground.

When using aerial photography for survey purposes (i.e. placing digital lines, geographic symbols, etc) it must first be orthorectified. Software is used to remove the effects described above and the result is a geometrically corrected image (orthoimagery) which can be used to measure distances, etc.

When overlaying onto an aerial photograph one should always expect an accurate trace to differ slightly from the photograph.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thx Russ,

You mention rendering software for corrections.

Do you have a link or name for such software?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

Chris

Although I only have a limited knowledge of aerial photography, I dont think there is anything to be concerned about. Because of camera angle / tilt, lens distortion and ground relief or elevation, an aerial photograph is not a true geometric representation of what is on the ground.

When using aerial photography for survey purposes (i.e. placing digital lines, geographic symbols, etc) it must first be orthorectified. Software is used to remove the effects described above and the result is a geometrically corrected image (orthoimagery) which can be used to measure distances, etc.

When overlaying onto an aerial photograph one should always expect an accurate trace to differ slightly from the photograph.

Correct in all aspects.

And although I have forgotten most of what I supposedly learned at one time, thankfully, I never selected some Muscovite's outdoor potty as a missle launch facility during the "Nuclear Targeting"/aka aerial imagery interpretation to which I was exposed.

And, in order to avoid any confusion:

The point on the curb of Elm St. on the Drommer map, with elevation "94.4" which is in alignment from the Z-position across the right sign post, WAS INITIALLY ESTABLISHED during the Time/Life Survey work.

It was from this point that Breneman turned almost all of his angles and distances.

And although Mr. West later utilized this point as well, he did not give the necessary information to determine the position other than to "backplot".

In that regards, the Drommer line-of-sight is quite probably considerably more accurate as this point had to be "plotted" onto the large WC survey play by myself, utilizing the measurement information gained from the Time/Life Survey. All of which induces some margin of error.

Just thought that this should be cleared up, as anyone would know, from the previous discussions of this location, (including photo's) that this point was established before the SS even began their survey work.

Lastly, let me state that anyone who is also in possession of the Drommer survey plat has the same ability as did I when I located the Presidential Limo and JFK on Elm St.

The line-of-sight from Zapruder to the 6-inch Elm tree can be easily obtained from this survey plat. Therefore, all that one has to do is "size" the survey plat correctly and, as I did, also "size" the Presidential Limousine, and thereafter achieve the alignment of Zapruder to front left bumper of limo, to tree in background, and they have an exact position on Elm St for JFK.

And in many ways I trust the Drommer accuracy over the WC survey plat, as the difference between survey work in 1963/1964 and that in 1978 was tremendous.

By 1978, we had hand held computers which could do the math functions, thus avoiding the long drawn out manual computations which were prone to error as well as only of limited accuracies.

We also had far better drafting abilities in which accuracies could be better defined.

It is therefore the "Drommer" survey notes which are/should be of the greatest accuracy in this entire realm.

What is also of interest is the fact that the available Drommer survey plat, is in fact a "revised" 1981 issue.

I have never seen the original 1978 version, and am relatively assured that it contained "too much " knowledge and information.

[Miles Scull]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

Great Chris, very useful & needed data! Zounds!

Do you have a link for Exhibit 365? Can't find it.

(365 Aerial view of Main, Houston, and Elam Streets in downtown Dallas, as marked by Amos Lee Euins. pp 961)

Or can you post a scan of this aerial sans West survey overlay?

And additionally can you please post a scan or mock up render of your composited West survey, hopefully in big size?

Many thx!

Miles

Chris,

WebFerret produced:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wcexlink.htm

which gave Exhibit 365.

However, your image seems better. Do you, then, have a hard copy of the exhibits? Wow.

Your West survey composite? Can you send it in big res? Thx

Miles

[Russ Connelly]

Thomas,

Thanks for posting the Speed data. I ran out of time. Your copy is far superior.

I found an aerial shot of DP in the WC report.

So I went ahead and composited the West survey over the aerial.

It seems to fit very nicely except for the Schoolbook Depository marker.

Anything to be concerned with?

chris

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Chris

Although I only have a limited knowledge of aerial photography, I dont think there is anything to be concerned about. Because of camera angle / tilt, lens distortion and ground relief or elevation, an aerial photograph is not a true geometric representation of what is on the ground.

When using aerial photography for survey purposes (i.e. placing digital lines, geographic symbols, etc) it must first be orthorectified. Software is used to remove the effects described above and the result is a geometrically corrected image (orthoimagery) which can be used to measure distances, etc.

When overlaying onto an aerial photograph one should always expect an accurate trace to differ slightly from the photograph.

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Thx Russ,

You mention rendering software for corrections.

Do you have a link or name for such software?

Miles

I don't pretend to be an expert on this at all, but from what I understand it is a very complicated process requiring difficult to acquire information and equipment. I don't think knowing the name of the software will help, as we only have a single image to work with and no supporting data about the image.

In order to orthorectify a photograph, you need to have a digital elevation model to "drape" the photograph over. In the most basic terms, what usually happens is that a set of equally distributed and accurate Ground Control Points (elevation points) are taken from all over the area photographed - this is carried out using GPS stations to acquire very accurate height data. This is the Digital Elevation Model.

The area in question also needs to be photographed to produce a series of overlapping photographs, which are then scanned using a very accurate flatbed scanner. Various algorithms must be applied to each pixel on the scan to rectify it with the real features on the ground - using supporting data such as the camera location (in relation to the ground), film resolution, etc. The scan is then digitised and becomes an orthoimage.

For information purposes, 'Arc Info' is one of the more popular pieces of software but I am sure there are many others.

Russ

Edited June 14, 2007 by Russ Connelly