MC Mystery Man not a mystery

[David Josephs]

The only photos in the logs for Oct 1 is for 2URM = 2 Unidentified Russian Males

(edit: LEON is named at 12:05 in photo 6 & 7 and looks like 2 men in each photo whereas #'s 1 & 2 don't appear to show anyone.)

 

 

I haven't seen photos with 2 men in them in relation to these two men the one on the right I believe Tommy is talking about.  

I'm still looking for the photo proof sheet for Oct 1 with the 2 photos each with 2 men in them.  If it was either of these two - which is very possible, the "known man" could be one of them and not our famous mystery man, of whom no photos were taken on Oct 1 (yet were credited to Oct 1 even though they were Oct 2, 4 & 15.)

 

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by David Josephs
Leon named

[Thomas Graves]

On 10/3/2007 at 9:03 AM, Steve Thomas said:

In one of the photos of the Mexican City Mystery Man, it looks like he might be carrying a diplomatic pouch and looking at a passport.

What did or does a diplomatic pouch look like?

Could he have been operating under a diplomatic cover?

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Nice catch.

It's interesting to note that he was photographed near the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy 11 minutes after blond, thin-faced, 5' 6", Mexico City-based KGB officer Nikolai Leonov was photographed twice by the same LILYRIC camera, on October 2, 1963.

"During the October 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, [Leonov] received regular reports from agents in Florida with respect to American military preparations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Leonov

Here's a fairly recent photo of Leonov.

 

And this is what he looked like on October 2. 1963. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=26067&relPageId=4 Note the blond hair and recessed chin. (I'm talking about the two top photos. The bottom two were taken on September 26, 1963, and are of Ernesto Lehfeld Miller, a friend of Sylvia Duran's husband who used to borrow their car.)

Here's a clearer copy of the top right photo.

.

Note:  The LILYRIC and the LIEMPTTY cameras were always focused on the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy.

--Tommy

Edited March 23, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

9 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

On 10/03/2007 Steve Thomas wrote --

"In one of the photos of the [husky, balding] Mexican City Mystery Man [photographed on 10/02/63 but lied about by Anne Goodpasture, date-wise] , it looks like he might be carrying a diplomatic pouch and looking at a passport.

What did or does a diplomatic pouch look like?

Could he have been operating under a diplomatic cover?

Steve Thomas"

 

Steve,

Nice catch.

It's interesting to note that Mexico City Mystery Man (KGB officer Yuri Moskalev?) was photographed near the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy just 11 minutes after blond, thin-faced, 5' 6", Mexico City-based KGB officer Nikolai Leonov (in a fairly recent photograph, below) was photographed twice by CIA cameras on October 2, 1963.  I'm wondering -- Did MCMM show up for a meeting with KGB officer Nikolai Leonov?

"During the October 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, [Leonov] received regular reports from agents in Florida with respect to American military preparations." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Leonov

Here's a fairly recent photo of Leonov.

 

And this is what he looked like on October 2, 1963. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=26067&relPageId=4 Note the blond hair and recessed chin. (I'm talking about the two top photos. The bottom two were taken on September 26, 1963, and are of Ernesto Lehfeld Miller, a friend of Sylvia Duran's husband who used to borrow their car.)

Here's a clearer copy of the top right photo.

.

Note:  The LILYRIC and the LIEMPTTY cameras were always focused on the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy.

 

--Tommy

 

bumped

Edited March 22, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

15 hours ago, David Josephs said:

The only photos in the logs for Oct 1 is for 2URM = 2 Unidentified Russian Males

(edit: LEON is named at 12:05 in photo 6 & 7 and looks like 2 men in each photo whereas #'s 1 & 2 don't appear to show anyone.)

[...]

I haven't seen photos with 2 men in them in relation to these two men the one on the right I believe Tommy is talking about.  

I'm still looking for the photo proof sheet for Oct 1 with the 2 photos each with 2 men in them.  If it was either of these two - which is very possible, the "known man" could be one of them and not our famous mystery man, of whom no photos were taken on Oct 1 (yet were credited to Oct 1 even though they were Oct 2, 4 & 15.)

[...]

 

Dear David,

I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here.

Are you saying that this 

is not a detail from photo #7?

 

And that this

although apparently not a detail from photo # 6, it COULD BE and PROBABLY IS a detail of a photograph taken of the same LEON around the same time on the same day by a different camera (LIEMPTTY) which, like LILYRIC, exclusively took photos of the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy?

Bearing in mind that both photos, above, were taken on October 2, 1963, of similar-looking and similarly-dressed men who are holding a similar-looking coat?

Bearing in mind that on the log you posted, photo # 7 is described as having been taken not only at the same time as photo # 6 (i.e. 12:05 pm), but also of the same subject matter (i.e. LEON & 2URM = LEONov & 2 Unknown Russian Males), by the simple use of a long line of ditto marks [ " " " " " " "  ] between the log entries for the two photos?

Bearing in mind that the log you posted clearly states (by using abbreviated writing and ditto marks, as discussed above) that the subject matter for photos 6 and 7 was LEONov and 2 Unknown Russian Males, well gosh, given that fact, the fact that photo # 7 doesn't explicitly state the same information on the contact sheet is immaterial in view of the fact that photo # 6. which was taken at the same time as # 7, does?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4490&relPageId=3

 

--  Tommy

Edited March 22, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:01 AM, Thomas Graves said:

 

Dear David,

I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here.

Are you saying that this 

is not a detail from photo #7?

 

And that this

although apparently not a detail from photo # 6, it COULD be a detail of a photograph taken of the same LEON by a different camera (LIEMPTTY). which, like LILYRIC, exclusively took photos of the front entrance of the Soviet Embassy?

Bearing in mind that both photos, above, were taken on October 2, 1963, of similar-looking and similarly-dressed men who are holding a similar-looking coat?

Bearing in mind that on the log you posted, photo # 7 is described as having been taken not only at the same time as photo # 6 (i.e. 12:05 pm), but also of the same subject matter (i.e. LEON & 2URM = LEONov & 2 Unknown Russian Males), by the simple use of a long line of ditto marks [ " " " " " " "  ] between the log entries for the two photos?

Bearing in mind that the log you posted clearly states, in shorthand form as discussed above, that there were two unknown Russian males accompanying LEONov just before or when he entered the Soviet Embassy around 12:05, the fact that photo # 7 doesn't explicitly state that on the contact sheet is immaterial in view of the fact that photo # 6 does on said contact sheet.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4490&relPageId=3

 

--  Tommy

Not at all Tommy...  LEON is definitely in #6 & 7, as are 2 URM.. sorry if I misspoke.

What I'm saying is that #1 & #2 , the only photos designated as Oct 1 are very hard to make out and have nothing to do with the OSWALD charade going on.  And finally, the image from Sept 26 of the "man sent to consulate" (unidentified?) is simply everyone they could find in the photos who appeared American, or non-Mexican.

 

Here is the START of the entire thing - Goodpasture and the LADILLINGER (Soviet Desk Barbara Manell) and how the two different descriptions of Oswald are first created (Cable #74673 sent to NAVY, STATE & FBI: "35y/o, Athletic build, about 6' receding hair" &  #74830 sent to Mexico City: "5'10" 165 lb, Light Brown Hair & Blue Eyes") 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:  For got I attached this...  Sept 27 log.  "Man sent to Consulate" is the same text as the 9/26 photos

These are 2 different rolls of film so I assume they are from 2 different places and programs?

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by David Josephs

[Thomas Graves]

"And finally, the image from Sept 26 of the 'man sent to consulate' (unidentified?) is simply everyone (sic) they could find in the photos who appeared American, or non-Mexican."  

Is that a statement or a question, David?  Regardless, you seem to have a problem with it.

Why?

Hasn't the blond guy who was photographed on 9/26/63 while being "sent to the Consulate" (and whom some "researchers" used to think was bad guy Claude Capehart) been shown to have been an architect friend of Sylvia Duran's husband by the name of Ernesto Lehfield Miller?

Isn't it possible that since both Duran and Azcue stated they had dealt separately (and collectively) with a blond American by the name of "Oswald" on 9/27/63, that that was why the photos of blond LEONov (a known person, but hey!, a KGB officer and therefore a potential candidate for the 9/27 mischief-maker) and blond Ernesto Lehfield Miller (who must have been known, too, but hey! -- let's throw him in there too just to show headquarters that we're really really trying to help, even though everyone knows that architects are never ever troublemakers) were sent to CIA headquarters some time later, basically because they were the only two blond dudes photographed near the two embassies and / or consulates around the period of time that we're so fascinated about now (i.e. September 27 thru October 1, 1963) ?

"Here is the START of the entire thing - Goodpasture and the LADILLINGER (Soviet Desk Barbara Manell) and how the two different descriptions of Oswald are first created (Cable #74673 sent to NAVY, STATE & FBI: "35y/o, Athletic build, about 6' receding hair" &  #74830 sent to Mexico City: "5'10" 165 lb, Light Brown Hair & Blue Eyes")"

Since Manell didn't actually say in her cable that the 6-foot dude photographed "on October 1" (which we now know was a lie by Goodpasture, but, which, fwiw, may not have been realized by Manell) was the same person claiming to be O-S-W-A-L-D who called the Soviet Embassy on that day (Oct 1), saying he had met with an-elicited-from-the-Sov-Emb-employee-at-the-other-end-of-phoneline, "Kostikov"), but (how could anyone know which pay phone or hotel phone O-S-W-A-L-D had called from, anyway?) she only kinda suggested, through careful wording and juxtaposition in the cable, that it might be the same person (even though the "Kostikov-linking" phone call had been made TO the Sov Emb, not FROM it, and although the 6-foot dude had been photographed entering and leaving the ..... Soviet Embassy (Like Dude! -- Calling the Soviet Embassy from inside the Soviet Embassy? -- What's up with THAT?) ..... on "October 1" (actually October 2), it seems that the inclusion of the 6-foot dude's physical description and photos into the conversation was more of a "dangle" (to find out who, in the CIA or FBI or ... had been manipulating Oswald, and maybe even who had impersonated him physically on September 27, and over-the-phone on September 28 and October 1) than, necessarily, some kind of evil (non-rogue) CIA operation to implicate Oswald in the upcoming assassination, although it turned out to do just that, because ... well, ... maybe it was hijacked by rogues?

--  Tommy

Edit:  I now believe that the "short, blond, very thin-faced" Oswald that Duran and Azcue testified about to the HSCA was Russian KGB officer Nikolai Leonov.

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

22 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

"And finally, the image from Sept 26 of the 'man sent to consulate' (unidentified?) is simply everyone (sic) they could find in the photos who appeared American, or non-Mexican."  --  David Josephs

Is that a statement or a question, David?  Regardless, you seem to have a problem with it.

Why?

Hasn't the blond guy who was photographed on 9/26/63 while being "sent to the Consulate" (and whom some "researchers" used to think was bad guy Claude Capehart) been shown to have been an architect friend of Sylvia Duran's husband by the name of Ernesto Lehfield Miller?

Isn't it possible that since both Duran and Azcue stated they had dealt separately (and together) with a blond American by the name of "Oswald" on 9/27/63, that that was why the photos of blond LEONov (a known person, but hey!, a KGB officer and therefore a potential candidate for the 9/27 mischief-maker) and blond Ernesto Lehfield Miller (who must have been known, too, but hey! -- let's throw him in there too just to show headquarters that we're really really trying to help, even though everyone knows that architects are never ever troublemakers) were sent to CIA headquarters some time later, basically because they were the only two blond dudes photographed near the two embassies and / or consulates around the period of time that we're so fascinated about now (i.e. September 27 thru October 1, 1963) ?

"Here is the START of the entire thing - Goodpasture and the LADILLINGER (Soviet Desk Barbara Manell) and how the two different descriptions of Oswald are first created (Cable #74673 sent to NAVY, STATE & FBI: "35y/o, Athletic build, about 6' receding hair" &  #74830 sent to Mexico City: "5'10" 165 lb, Light Brown Hair & Blue Eyes")"  --  David Josephs

Since Anne Goodpasture - Barbara Murphy Manell didn't actually say in their cable that the 6-foot dude photographed "on October 1" (which we now know was a lie by Goodpasture, but, which, fwiw, may not have been realized by Manell) was the same person who claimed to be O-S-W-A-L-D  when he called the Soviet Embassy on that day (Oct 1), saying that he had met with an-elicited-from-the-Sov-Emb-employee-at-the-other-end-of-phoneline, "Kostikov"), but (how could anyone know which pay phone or hotel phone O-S-W-A-L-D had called from, anyway?) she (following Goodpasture's lead or instructions from a higher-up) only kinda suggested, through careful wording and juxtaposition in the cable, that it might be the same person (even though the "Kostikov-linking" phone call had been made TO the Sov Emb, not FROM it, and although the 6-foot dude had been photographed entering and leaving the ..... Soviet Embassy (Like Dude! -- Calling the Soviet Embassy from inside the Soviet Embassy? -- What's up with THAT?) ..... on "October 1" (actually October 2), it seems that the inclusion of the 6-foot dude's physical description and photos into the conversation was more of a "dangle" (to find out who, in the CIA or FBI or ... had been manipulating Oswald, and maybe even who had impersonated him physically on September 27, and over-the-phone on September 28 and October 1) than, necessarily, some kind of evil (but non-rogue) CIA operation to implicate Oswald in the upcoming assassination, although it turned out to do just that, because ... well, ... maybe it was hijacked by rogues?

--  Tommy

 

Bumped for David Josephs

Edited March 23, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

On 9/26/2007 at 10:16 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Daniel,

Which is why I opened this thread in the first place.

For 45 years, we've been told that this man's identity is unknown; but that's not the case. His identity WAS known, and maybe still is by a handful of people.

I found it astounding that King was not interviewed by the Rockefeller or Church Committees (at least I didn't find any testimony on the Mary Ferrell pages.

I don't know if he was interviewed by the HSCA or not.

Steve Thomas

How do we know that the photos he's referring to are of our traditional "Athletic build, 6-foot"  Mexico City Mystery Man?

--  Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 3:11 PM, Thomas Graves said:

"And finally, the image from Sept 26 of the 'man sent to consulate' (unidentified?) is simply everyone (sic) they could find in the photos who appeared American, or non-Mexican."  

Is that a statement or a question, David?  Regardless, you seem to have a problem with it.

Why?

Hasn't the blond guy who was photographed on 9/26/63 while being "sent to the Consulate" (and whom some "researchers" used to think was bad guy Claude Capehart) been shown to have been an architect friend of Sylvia Duran's husband by the name of Ernesto Lehfield Miller?

Isn't it possible that since both Duran and Azcue stated they had dealt separately (and collectively) with a blond American by the name of "Oswald" on 9/27/63, that that was why the photos of blond LEONov (a known person, but hey!, a KGB officer and therefore a potential candidate for the 9/27 mischief-maker) and blond Ernesto Lehfield Miller (who must have been known, too, but hey! -- let's throw him in there too just to show headquarters that we're really really trying to help, even though everyone knows that architects are never ever troublemakers) were sent to CIA headquarters some time later, basically because they were the only two blond dudes photographed near the two embassies and / or consulates around the period of time that we're so fascinated about now (i.e. September 27 thru October 1, 1963) ?

"Here is the START of the entire thing - Goodpasture and the LADILLINGER (Soviet Desk Barbara Manell) and how the two different descriptions of Oswald are first created (Cable #74673 sent to NAVY, STATE & FBI: "35y/o, Athletic build, about 6' receding hair" &  #74830 sent to Mexico City: "5'10" 165 lb, Light Brown Hair & Blue Eyes")"

Since Manell didn't actually say in her cable that the 6-foot dude photographed "on October 1" (which we now know was a lie by Goodpasture, but, which, fwiw, may not have been realized by Manell) was the same person claiming to be O-S-W-A-L-D who called the Soviet Embassy on that day (Oct 1), saying he had met with an-elicited-from-the-Sov-Emb-employee-at-the-other-end-of-phoneline, "Kostikov"), but (how could anyone know which pay phone or hotel phone O-S-W-A-L-D had called from, anyway?) she only kinda suggested, through careful wording and juxtaposition in the cable, that it might be the same person (even though the "Kostikov-linking" phone call had been made TO the Sov Emb, not FROM it, and although the 6-foot dude had been photographed entering and leaving the ..... Soviet Embassy (Like Dude! -- Calling the Soviet Embassy from inside the Soviet Embassy? -- What's up with THAT?) ..... on "October 1" (actually October 2), it seems that the inclusion of the 6-foot dude's physical description and photos into the conversation was more of a "dangle" (to find out who, in the CIA or FBI or ... had been manipulating Oswald, and maybe even who had impersonated him physically on September 27, and over-the-phone on September 28 and October 1) than, necessarily, some kind of evil (non-rogue) CIA operation to implicate Oswald in the upcoming assassination, although it turned out to do just that, because ... well, ... maybe it was hijacked by rogues?

--  Tommy

 

Tommy,

All this suggests to me that the CIA in Mexico City were lazy, tequila-in-their-coffee sipping Siesta takers. 

They did not think much of Oswald -- who would?   In October, Lee Harvey Oswald was a poor ex-Marine who could hardly hold down a minimum-wage job, had a wife and baby with one on the way, who was playing make-believe FPCC officer in Mexico City.   Pass the tequila.

While Oswald did bounce between the USSR Embassy and the Cuban Consulate, whining like a big baby and making lots of noise -- the grown-ups at the USSR Embassy tossed him out, and the Cuban Consulate did the same.  Oswald went home empty-handed.   Why should the CIA be interested in the slightest possible bit?

The only interesting thing that weekend was the MOLE HUNT.   Somebody IMPORTANT had tried to impersonate Oswald, for some Unknown Reason.

That was most interesting.   Was it the Russians?  But why?   Was it some Rogue CIA person?  But why?   Thus the Simpich Mole-Hunt.

Regards,
--Pau Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

The above  is one of the most unintentionally  funniest posts I can recall on this forum in awhile.

I just wish RCD was here to comment on it.  It shows where barium meals end up.

[Paul Trejo]

5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

The above  is one of the most unintentionally  funniest posts I can recall on this forum in awhile.

I just wish RCD was here to comment on it.  It shows where barium meals end up.

James,

Don't look now, but your writing has fallen down to stand-up comedy. 

My post was GOOD.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 28, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

Paul, don't look now, but I think you are not the most objective guy on this board.

In fact, there is no one here more agenda driven.  To the point, that I know how you will now reply.

And let me add, one reason RCD probably isn't here is he doesn't want to spend hours on end countering you.  If that is the case, the posters and lurkers got the bad end of that trade.

Edited March 28, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Oh, and I forgot, that is Morales on the tape and that is Morales scratching his neck in New Orleans, except he is not really scratching his neck,  its a signal.

Barium meals for everyone at my place.  Free with cinnamon and raisins.

[Michael Walton]

PT - whining like a big baby and making lots of noise...

Wow, that's a pretty unbelievable statement for you to make, Paul.  How can LHO be unimportant when Hoover himself was already telling Johnson the intrigue that the man on the recording and in the photos was not him...while LHO was sitting in jail?

Even Hoover, being as astute as he was, had to know something was going on when that happened and Oswald not just some "nobody" as you claim him to be.

I actually did a double-take when I read your comment here and then it hit me - yep, Paul is so wrapped up in his Ed Walker and Oswald theory - the one he endlessly pushes for dollars on an unsuspecting public - that he'd never want to look at anything else.

[Thomas Graves]

48 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oh, and I forgot, that is Morales on the tape and that is Morales scratching his neck in New Orleans, except he is not really scratching his neck,  its a signal.

Barium meals for everyone at my place.  Free with cinnamon and raisins.

You're right, James.

Morales had a rare skin disorder on the back of his neck, and was known to scratch that one particular spot for minutes at a time, in direct contravention of his dermatologist's explicit orders.

--  Tommy

Edited March 28, 2017 by Thomas Graves