The Most Damning Evidence Against Oswald

[Mark Knight]

Maybe it's just a reflection of my background, but reading Mr. Gratz's descriptions of the proper way to formulate a legal argument brings to mind the Saturday Night Live skits with Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray as characters who leap through the door flashing their now-empty badge wallets and shouting, "FREEZE! Ex-POLICE!"

Or maybe MY logic is faulty...maybe it's more akin to taking training for a Boy Scout lifesaving merit badge from Dr. Jack Kevorkian. {Not that Dr. Kevorkian wouldn't know how to SAVE a life, but it's not what he's known for.}

[Mark Knight]

[Pause for dramatic effect....]

Doesn't that sound better than "duplicate post deleted" ??

Edited December 9, 2007 by Mark Knight

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Maybe it's just a reflection of my background, but reading Mr. Gratz's descriptions of the proper way to formulate a legal argument brings to mind the Saturday Night Live skits with Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray as characters who leap through the door flashing their now-empty badge wallets and shouting, "FREEZE! Ex-POLICE!"

In similar vein, recall the scene in Casablanca, where Bogart stands over the victim holding a smoking pistol and the police chief says "round up the usual suspects!"

[Jim Root]

The "patsy" statement made by Oswald was preceded by a statement about his going to Russia. Was Oswald the "patsy" when he went to Russia?

In his speech at Spring Hill College Oswald spoke about the failure of the Paris Summit and his discust with both nations for failing to take advanage of that opportunity to provide for a more peaceful international situation.

When returning to the United States Oswald wanted assurances that he would not be proscecuted for any wrong doing (perhaps he feared prosecution for sharing information about the U-2 that led to the failure of the Paris Summit).

In reference to Walker Oswald said that he was the leader of a facist organization. Did, as I have suggested, Walker help Oswald into the Soviet Union by providing him with the information needed about the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki, information that had just been collected by the American Ambasador in Helsinki one day prior to Oswalds arrival in Helsinki. Did Oswald realize that his entry into the Soviet Union had been facilitated by Walker and that it was therfore Walker's facist organization that had prevented the Paris Summit from going forward?

Was Walker the sensitive name that was on the passenger list that the CIA/NSA failed to provide to the Warren Commission for Oswald's London to Helsinki journey? Why did Walker take command of the 24th Infantry Div. in Augsburg, Germany out of the normal sequence of command changes?

Was it just a coincidence that Oswald and Walker were traveling in Euorpe at the same time or was the "guiding hand" of US Intelligence involved?

Walker, in his later life, seemed to feel that Oswald was working for both the Soviets and the US. Did he have first hand knowledge of this? If he had met Oswald in an airport in Europe in 1959 he would have first hand knowledge of this.

John J. McCloy himself would say during an interview with Edward Epstein "Yes. I was interested in the espionage angle. I spent 10 years investigating Black Tom explosions--that's how I got into Government. I thought Oswald was trained in Espionage. I saw a pattern--mail drops, micro dots, his code(?), his knowledge of sabotage, etc. I thought he might be a sleeper Soviet agent who went haywire. I think we put something of that in the Report, I did, but it was toned down. The others said my evidence was not "evidential." I still believe it is possible some document will turn up showing Oswald might have been an agent. Not necessarily a conspiracy but an agent gone haywire." Epstein, later in his interview would say this about McCloy's feelings about Oswald, b]"And, despite the report, he (McCloy)believed that there was a espionage conspiracy."[/b]

And who can argue with the integrity of John J. MCloy on such an issue as this.

If McCloys premis is true, Oswald could have had a motive to shoot at Walker. This would also explain why Walker was so quick to suggest that Oswald had shot at him within hours of the assassination of JFK.

But if we follow this particular logic then Oswald's motive for shooting at Kennedy would have been the same as his motive for shooting at Walker.

And: Only those who had used Oswald to sabatoge the Paris Summit would know that he had been used and that he would have had a motive to shoot at Walker. Those few "conspirators" would have wanted the FBI to keep an eye on Oswald after the assassination attempt on Walker. The FBI did start monitoring the movements of Oswald shortly after the Walker assassination attempt and those reports did make it to the highest eschelons of the CIA.

The conspirators would have needed access to the information about where Oswald was working. That information became available on November 4, 1963 when James P. Hosty wrote his report on where Oswald was working. The "conspirators" would then have needed to be able to direct the design of the parade route from Washington. It was done in exactly that manner.

The "conspirators" would have had to put Kennedy in Oswald's line of sight (fire). Someone did and the knowledge about where Oswald was working was available to so very few people. We must remember that the very last building to be passed before the President would get on the freeway in order to "backtrack" to the trademart luncheon was where Oswald, a man with a grudge, a man with a gun, a man who even the CIA said it could have been predicted that he would shoot the President if they had known that he shot at Walker, worked.

I do not believe these are coincidences.

And I agree that if Oswald did shoot at Walker not only does it shine a light on the potential quilt of Oswald it has led me to believe, after nearly 15 years of research that the Walker event leads us to the conspirators. The only people that would know that Oswald had a motive and a reason to shoot at Walker, the only people that had the ability to order the FBI to start monitoring the movements of Oswald after the Walker event. The only people who would be monitoring the FBI reports about Oswald and would know where Oswald was working. The only people that could then assure that the information about where Oswald was working would not be given an exhibit number so that we could today trace who exactly had that information.

These are the conspirators and they, I believe, continue to find shelter from exposusure because so many people are unwilling to believe that Oswald shot at Walker or that Oswald shot at Kennedy!

Jim Root

[Harry J.Dean]

At the very outset Gen. Walker stated that he had traced his attempted

assassins back to California.

Have any JFK researchers followed up on Walkers statement above?

I heared back then, that the suspects were some of his

own 'civilian' troops?

H.J.Dean

[Tim Gratz]

To Mr. Caroll and Mr. Knight:

You may not think that whether Oswald shot at Walker has any relevance to whether he shot JFK but Professor McKnight, who has produced one of the most important and best-written books on the assassination and clearly put in thousands of hours reading documents, many of which you have not even heard of let alone read and examined, thinks that whether Oswald shot Walker is a key to whether he participated in the Kennedy assassination. So do I.

It is as simple as this: a man who has attempted to commit a political assassination is a good candidate for a subsequent successful political assassination. The man has proven he is capable of political murder.

To show you, gentlemen, how illogical your position is that the Walker shooting has no bearing on the Kennedy case, let us assume the DPD had very good reason to believe that Oswald had shot at Walker but for whatever reason were unable to prove it. Let us assume that they had shared that belief with the Secret Service. Should the Secret Service have then put Oswald on its "watch list" with JFK coming to town? By your "logic" the answer would be "no" since there is (your argument) no reason to believe that because Oswald had attempted to shoot a right-wing political candidate that he would attempt to shoot JFK. Now how many people in the world do you think you can convince of THAT?

Should the ladies who shot at Gerald Ford been removed from the SS watch list once Jimmy Carter assumed the presidency?

[Tim Gratz]

To Jim Root:

Thanks for pointing out the Epstein interview with McCloy. Can you provide a reference so I can include it in my class materials?

McCloy's point is interesting. Many believe LHO's left-wing politics were feigned and he went to the Soviet Union as an agent of some US intelligence organization, and I think that position has a lot of merit for reasons that we do not need to rehash.

But what if we are wrong? Or what if he was "doubled" while in the Soviet Union and sent back to the US on SOME KGB mission--but not a mission to kill JFK. And then he "goes off the reservation" and does kill Kennedy (with or without help or encouragement of others). What fear and consternation that would have caused in the Soviet Union. Which could explain why they sent Nosenko.

You see I believe the timing of Nosenko's coming to the US while the WC was still operating and with claimed information re LHO raises rather interesting questions particularly when one looks at the questions on the earlier Nosenko polygraphs that Nosenko flunked.

[James Richards]

At the very outset Gen. Walker stated that he had traced his attempted

assassins back to California.

Have any JFK researchers followed up on Walkers statement above?

I heared back then, that the suspects were some of his

own 'civilian' troops?

H.J.Dean

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure about the California angle but researching this over the years, I have concluded that the attempted shooting at Walker was a staged event.

A few months before, Walker aide Ashland Burchwell was busted for transporting weapons and boxes of ammunition including 30.06 which I submit is what was fired at Walker.

Also, amongst the cache was boxes of index type cards containing number codes. The FBI were most interested in these and they conducted an investigation. I have no idea what became of this as after the so-called attempt on Walker's life, the various media outlets were only interested in the shooting.

James

[Tim Gratz]

James, do you have any knowledge or even speculation why the Walker shooting was "staged"?

It is a theory I do not casually dismiss.

I find it very interesting that Gen Walker was adamant that the bullet slug shown by Robert Blakey during the televised HSCA hearings was not the slug obtained by the DPD that he had held in his hand. (Per "Breach of Trust.")

Edited December 10, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[James Richards]

James, do you have any knowledge or even speculation why the Walker shooting was "staged"?

It is a theory I do not casually dismiss.

I find it very interesting that Gen Walker was adamant that the bullet slug shown by Robert Blakey during the televised HSCA hearings was not the slug obtained by the DPD that he had held in his hand. (Per "Breach of Trust.")

Tim,

I think firstly the shooting was to divert attention away from the Ashland Burchwell arrest, the cache of weapons and the index cards; and secondly to show that the good General was right in the trenches fighting the tough battle against Communism. The incident sure rallied support for him and his subsequent speaking tours were very well attended.

James

Edited December 10, 2007 by James Richards

[John Dolva]

At the very outset Gen. Walker stated that he had traced his attempted

assassins back to California.

Have any JFK researchers followed up on Walkers statement above?

I heared back then, that the suspects were some of his

own 'civilian' troops?

H.J.Dean

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure about the California angle but researching this over the years, I have concluded that the attempted shooting at Walker was a staged event.

A few months before, Walker aide Ashland Burchwell was busted for transporting weapons and boxes of ammunition including 30.06 which I submit is what was fired at Walker.

Also, amongst the cache was boxes of index type cards containing number codes. The FBI were most interested in these and they conducted an investigation. I have no idea what became of this as after the so-called attempt on Walker's life, the various media outlets were only interested in the shooting.

James

James : "...the attempted shooting at Walker (ed: walkers window frame) was a staged event.

A few months before, Walker aide Ashland Burchwell was busted for transporting weapons and boxes of ammunition including 30.06 which I submit is what was fired at Walker."

___________

Also:"Robert Surrey, an aide to General Edwin Walker..."

June 30, 1965.

From: Director, Sovereignty Commission

Subject: American Nazi Party

...Rockwell was very angry at what happened to his seven Nazi Party members who came ... from Dallas....

...Three came in from Dallas... One of them is Robert Surrey, who was on the campus during the Ole Miss riot of '62,...(Walker Commanding, arrested, incarcerated. This plus his ignoble 'sacking' (resigned after transfer) by Kennedy for disobeying Pres. Orders. Sufficient motive? He must have Hated Kennedy with a vengeance)

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...156|1|1|1|4515|

So, enough was not enough. Walker and associates were determined anti-integrationists ..62...63...65... and connection to Rockwell (in Oswalds address book) shows that there are two streams : Walker the de-segregationist, prepared to kill. Walker : a suspect and connected to suspects in JFK assassination.

It's not hard to make a case for JFK assassination = anti Civil Rights action. ie Hate crime, unsolved Civil Rights killing > the Emmett Till Bill (2007, dep of Justice) : Investigate unsolved Civil Rights Deaths.

"The Clash" Joe Strummer - 'Police and Thieves' (Walker ('The Man on the Horseback', '63) and co)

"Oh yeah!

Scaring the nation with their guns and ammunition

Police and thieves in the street

Oh yeah!

Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition

From genesis to revelation

The next generation will be hear me

From genesis to revelation

The next generation will be hear me

And all the crowd comes in day by day

No one stop it in anyway

And all the peacemaker turn war officer

Hear what I say

Scaring, fighting the nation

Shooting, shooting their guns and ammunition

Here come, here come, here come

The station is bombed

Get out get out get out you people

If you dont wanna get blown up"

Edited December 10, 2007 by John Dolva

[Tim Gratz]

John wrote:

It's not hard to make a case for JFK assassination = anti Civil Rights action

I suggest it is indeed hard to make a case without evidence. But hey when has the lack of evidence ever stopped us before? I will admit that despite the lack of evidence a theory that arch-segregationists, who clearly were prepared to use violence to further their objectives, is at least far less daft than many theories that have been posted here. And I do agree that Milteer had connections to the people John would consider as suspects so that could constitute some evidence, I suppose.

[Jim Root]

Tim

The Epstein article can be found at:

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diary/mccloy.htm

I personally believe that Oswald was exactly what he said he was, a socialist that got caught up in the Cold War and was made the "patsy" that he finally realized he had become.

From a post I wrote in April of 2005:

If you want to know what Allen Dulles, James Angelton, Thomas Karamessines and Richard Helms were up to during the period 1953 – 1965 you can find information in the following 122 page report.

But before reading the following information recall that on October 3, 1956, a few weeks before his 17th birthday, Lee Harvey Oswald wrote a letter to the Socialist Party of America based in New York City:

Dear Sirs:

I am sixteen years of age and would like more information about your youth League, I would like to know if there is a branch in my area, how to join, etc., I am a Marxist, and have been studying socialist principles for well over fifteen months I am very interested in your Y.P.S.L.

Sincerely

Lee Oswald

Three weeks later, Oswald enlisted in the Marines.

Final Report Of The Select Committee To Study Governmental Operations with respect to Intelligence Activities United States Senate: April 23, 1976.

The report begins with these words: “Between 1940 and 1973, two agencies of the federal government – the CIA and the FBI – covertly and illegally opened and photographed first class letter mail within the United States.” (pg 1)

“The CIA conducted four mail opening programs in four cities within the United States for varying lengths of time between 1953 and 1973. New York (1953-1973); San Francisco (four separate occasions, each of one to three weeks duration, between 1969 and 1971); New Orleans (three weeks in 1957) ; and Hawaii (late 1954 – late 1955).” (pg 5)

“Director Allen Dulles and Richard Helms, then Chief of Operations in the Plans Directorate, met with the Postmaster General and the Chief Postal Inspector, David Stephens, on May 17, 1954.” (pg 9)

“The CIA Staff Take-Over: "More" Mail Opening. -- In November 1955, James Angleton, the Chief of the Counterintelligence (CI) Staff, submitted a proposal to Richard Helms for the further expansion of the New York mail intercept project. Until then, the CIA was only receiving access to a portion of the United States-Soviet Union mail in its New York facility; Angleton recommended that "we gain access to all mail traffic to and from the U.S.S.R. which enters, departs, or transits the United States through the Port of New York." He also suggested that the "raw information acquired be recorded, indexed and analyzed and various components of the Agency furnished items of information which would appear to be helpful to their respective missions." Perhaps most significantly, he recommended a shift in the focus of the project from photographing the mail to opening it.” (pg 9)

“This proposal was approved by Helms on December 7, and funds were authorized by the Acting Deputy Director for Plans on March 3, 1956.” (pg 9)

“The only written approvals for the project as it subsequently developed during Dulles' tenure appear to be those of Richard Helms and the Acting Deputy Director for Plans. In December 1955, Helms approved the concept as outlined by James Angleton”

While it is unclear whether Dulles was ever informed about the laboratory, he was apparently at least made aware of the fact that mail was being opened. In May 1956, he received a memorandum from James Angleton in which Angleton noted that "for some time selected openings have been conducted and the contents examined." (pg 18)

“When the first request for formal approval had been submitted to Helms in November 1955, a branch chief of the CI staff suggested to, James Angleton that "in view of the sensitivity of this project, steps should be taken to have this proposed project approved by the Director without recourse to the normal channels for presentation of projects." (pg 19)

“Even James Angleton, the project's strongest supporter and, as Chief of the CI Staff, the official most directly responsible for its operation, testified that his understanding of its legality was simply: "That it was illegal." When asked how he could rationalize conducting a program he believed to be illegal, he answered that in his opinion, the project's benefit to the national security outweighed legal considerations.” (pg 38)

By 1965 Thomas Karamessines was Richard Helms point man in covering up this project

“In 1965, the Long Subcommittee hearings on the use of mail covers and other investigative techniques by federal agencies caused the Agency serious concern about possible Congressional discovery and revelation of the project. It is noted above that in September 1965, as a result of this concern, CIA officials briefly considered informing Postmaster General Gronouski of the project. When this proposal was rejected, presumably because Gronouski had cooperated extensively with the Subcommittee, Thomas Karamessines, then Acting Deputy Director for Plans, "suggested that, in his opinion, the President would be more inclined to go along with the idea of the operation." Karamessines "gave instructions that steps should be taken to arrange to pass through McGeorge Bundy to the President after the Subcommittee has completed its investigation." (pg 30)

“Three years later, the Long Subcommittee's investigation was believed to increase the risk of project exposure. An internal CIA memorandum dated April 23, 1965, states:

Mr. Karamessines [Assistant Deputy Director for Plans] felt that the dangers inherent in Long's subcommittee activities to the security of the Project's operations in New York should be thoroughly studied in order that a determination can be made as to whether these operations should be partially or fully suspended until the subcommittee's investigations are completed. (pgs 40 & 41)

In one document we bring together Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, James Jesus Angelton and Thomas Karamessines. We also show that Oswald’s letter to the Socialist Workers Party would have placed him, at minimum, on a “Watch List” of the CIA and perhaps was opened and read by some of the same people that would be monitoring his movements before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Was the CIA aware of Oswald as early as 1956? We can not discount the possibility! We have only recently learned that Oswald's movements were being monitored by Richard Helms and Thomas Karamessines in the months preceeding the assassination of JFK. No one has extablished the date when this attention began being directed toward Oswald. While it would seem obvious that a returned defector would be of interest to the CIA, the level to which the information on Oswald was directed suggests more than just a casual interest that began with his return to the US.

If Oswald was in fact on a “Watch List” in 1956 it would seem unlikely that he would be given the security clearances necessary to work on the U-2 while in the Marines, unless of course the “agency” had other plans for him.

The Watch List:

“Letters were selected for opening by two basic methods: (1) on the basis of a list of names known as the "Watch List," and (2) randomly. By one CIA estimate, the "Watch List" accounted for approximately 25% of the total volume of mail that was opened; random selection for 75%.” (pg 11)

“The Watch List. -- The Watch List originated in the mid-1950's, at which time it consisted of only ten to twenty names. With the SR Division, the CI Staff, the Office of Security, and the FBI all contributing names to the list it grew rapidly, however: by the end of the project the Watch List totaled about 600 names.” (pg 12)

Within a short time, the Watch List had expanded far beyond these relatively narrow and well-defined categories. The names of individuals who were in contact with Watch Listed persons and organizations were frequently added to the list themselves, and, as an August 1961 memorandum points out, a very large percentage of the names on the list were placed there because of "leads which came about through the random selection." (pgs 11 & 12)

We find the same names of the same people swirling around this mail opening program as we associated with the assassination of JFK.

Coincidence?

Jim Root

We find the same names were monitoring Oswald prior to the assassination of JFK. Had these same people used Oswald to abort the Paris Summit?

In reguards to "Nosenko." I believe that it was the same week that Oswald exited the Soviet Union that Nosenko first made contact with the CIA. From the begining Angleton believed him to be a false agent. What did Angleton know?

But did the US react in exactly the same way. Perhaps. Following shortly upon Oswald's first contact with the US Embassy wher he expressed a desire to return to the United States, the Pro Blue Program, and General Walker are beseiged by the Overseas Weekly expose. Soon Walker would be forced to resign from the military. If Walker could be identified by Oswald the US Government would have a major problem, unless of course Walker was portrayed as a Far Right Wing nut that did not represent US Policy.

Were the Nosenko defection and the Walker Pro Blue debacle moves by both governments to provide plausible denial for the activities that Oswald had engaged in while in Japan? Activites that may have led to the downing of the U-2 and the failure of the Paris Summit? Both governments acted in a similar fashion if in fact the Nosenko defection and the Overseas Weekly exposure of Walker were staged events to protect each government from being exposed as participating in the Oswald defection charade.

My story is consistant Tim and the circumstantial evidence, I believe mounts.

Jim root

[John Dolva]

John wrote:

It's not hard to make a case for JFK assassination = anti Civil Rights action

I suggest it is indeed hard to make a case without evidence. But hey when has the lack of evidence ever stopped us before? I will admit that despite the lack of evidence a theory that arch-segregationists, who clearly were prepared to use violence to further their objectives, is at least far less daft than many theories that have been posted here. And I do agree that Milteer had connections to the people John would consider as suspects so that could constitute some evidence, I suppose.

"without evidence"

True. Look at any 'the usual theories' list of the last 45 odd years (except recently). "Civil Rights' is almost invariably not mentioned or it's 'footnoted'. The Conspiracy Theorist IS the Conspirators 'best friend' led tantalisingly by 'nothing' away from themselves. Sounds like 'a job well done' to me.

Without the will there will continue to be no 'evidence'.

[Tim Gratz]

John, I do not want to repeat myself but the proven disposition of the arch-segregationists to use violence and murder to prevent the integration of the South makes them in my mind a far more likely group of interest than say the oil barons. I just want to note that if your suspicions are correct the arch-segregationist conspirators sure shot themselves in the foot. I think one of the reasons LBJ was able to obtain passage of the civil rights bills of 1964 and 1965 was because of the changed atmosphere following the death of JFK. I am not sure that had he lived JFK would have been able to accomplish what LBJ did.

The death of JFK also led to: (1) the greatly decreased efforts to rid Cuba of Castro; and (2) marked decrease in DOJ prosecutions of organized crime.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Tim Gratz