Who killed Bugsy Siegel?

[Wim Dankbaar]

My answer: Chauncey Holt on orders of Meyer Lansky. With an M1 Carbine on a tripod.

Just another solution of an unsolved murder, you don't have have to believe it, I don't give a damned, as long as I know myself what the truth is. And by the way, I think Chauncey was a likable great guy, much less a criminal than David Atlee Phillips and George Bush (senior or junior).

I am getting private messages through this board that I don't know how to answer. Whoever wants to get to me in private, do it at info@jfkmurdersolved.com.

Wim

Edited December 11, 2007 by Wim Dankbaar

[William Kelly]

My answer: Chauncey Holt on orders of Meyer Lansky. With an M1 Carbine on a tripod.

Just another solution of an unsolved murder, you don't have have to believe it, I don't give a damned, as long as I know myself what the truth is. And by the way, I think Chauncey was a likable great guy, much less a criminal than David Atlee Phillips and George Bush (senior or junior).

I am getting private messages through this board that I don't know how to answer. Whoever wants to get to me in private, do it at info@jfkmurdersolved.com.

Wim

Bugsy was one of the few mob hits that actually used a sniper and shot him through a window while he was sitting on a couch with his girlfriend.

Of course, when the HSCA under GRB tried to pull a switchero and shift the responsiblitly for the consiracy to kill JFK from the CIA to the mob, this was a prime example of how the mob could have done it.

As for Chauncy being the triggerman, I don't know. He was certainly a cool and cold character when he had to be, but Chauncy was known to be a Lansky man, and Lansky would have never sanctioned the murder of his childhood friend, no matter how much money was involved. He understood though, as explained in Godfather II.

BK

[Wim Dankbaar]

My answer: Chauncey Holt on orders of Meyer Lansky. With an M1 Carbine on a tripod.

Just another solution of an unsolved murder, you don't have have to believe it, I don't give a damned, as long as I know myself what the truth is. And by the way, I think Chauncey was a likable great guy, much less a criminal than David Atlee Phillips and George Bush (senior or junior).

I am getting private messages through this board that I don't know how to answer. Whoever wants to get to me in private, do it at info@jfkmurdersolved.com.

Wim

Bugsy was one of the few mob hits that actually used a sniper and shot him through a window while he was sitting on a couch with his girlfriend.

Of course, when the HSCA under GRB tried to pull a switchero and shift the responsiblitly for the consiracy to kill JFK from the CIA to the mob, this was a prime example of how the mob could have done it.

As for Chauncy being the triggerman, I don't know. He was certainly a cool and cold character when he had to be, but Chauncy was known to be a Lansky man, and Lansky would have never sanctioned the murder of his childhood friend, no matter how much money was involved. He understood though, as explained in Godfather II.

BK

[Wim Dankbaar]

You're right, Lansky did it with pain in his heart. But he was forced to give the order on orders of the commission, if Siegel could not be reasoned with. Something that Lansky pleaded for. And when Bugsy told Lansky to shove it , because the Flamingo was his and nobody would touch it, Siegel was dead the next day.

Lansky's men took over the Flamingo the day after that.

Wim

Edited December 11, 2007 by Wim Dankbaar

[Frank Caramelli]

My answer: Chauncey Holt on orders of Meyer Lansky. With an M1 Carbine on a tripod.

Just another solution of an unsolved murder, you don't have have to believe it, I don't give a damned, as long as I know myself what the truth is. And by the way, I think Chauncey was a likable great guy, much less a criminal than David Atlee Phillips and George Bush (senior or junior).

I am getting private messages through this board that I don't know how to answer. Whoever wants to get to me in private, do it at info@jfkmurdersolved.com.

Wim

When Siegal was killed; polite mobsters entered the neighboring houses, and told the residents "stay inside" and "don't use your phones".

[Wim Dankbaar]

Siegel is dead, Lansky is dead, Holt is dead, nobody can be hurt with this any anymore. It's part of the record that it was done on orders of the mob and the task was given to Lansky. Holt denied it with the same smile as James Files denies David Ferrie, despite giving all the details. He said to Thom Hartmann that Siegel was killed with an M1 carbine on a pedestal and stupid Thom failed to ask him: How do you know that? I guess he was not interested.

Apart from Chauncey's own hints, it has been confirmed to me by two independent credible sources.

It will officially remain an unsolved murder, it's too long ago to care anyway.

Wim

[James Richards]

It will officially remain an unsolved murder, it's too long ago to care anyway. (Wim Dankbaar)

I care.

In 1952, two telephone company agents arrested a man as he emerged from a phone booth in Hollywood. He had just phoned Las Vegas using a handful of two-bit slugs. The man said his name was John Baker and then tried to bribe his way out of it.

The agents turned him over to the police where J.E. Hamilton of the Los Angeles Intelligence Unit took over. Hamilton did a fingerprint check and discovered that the man was in fact Leo Moceri. Under questioning, Moceri finally admitted who he was and also said that he was a cousin of Peter Licavoli.

Moceri was wanted for crimes in Toledo and prosecutor Joel Rhineman began the legal process to return Moceri to Ohio.

After the interrogation, Hamilton was of the belief that Moceri (as a member of the Yonnie Licavoli gang) was responsible for killing four people during 1931/32, and that he was also the man who killed Bugsy Siegel in 1947.

FWIW.

James

[William Kelly]

It will officially remain an unsolved murder, it's too long ago to care anyway. (Wim Dankbaar)

I care.

In 1952, two telephone company agents arrested a man as he emerged from a phone booth in Hollywood. He had just phoned Las Vegas using a handful of two-bit slugs. The man said his name was John Baker and then tried to bribe his way out of it.

The agents turned him over to the police where J.E. Hamilton of the Los Angeles Intelligence Unit took over. Hamilton did a fingerprint check and discovered that the man was in fact Leo Moceri. Under questioning, Moceri finally admitted who he was and also said that he was a cousin of Peter Licavoli.

Moceri was wanted for crimes in Toledo and prosecutor Joel Rhineman began the legal process to return Moceri to Ohio.

After the interrogation, Hamilton was of the belief that Moceri (as a member of the Yonnie Licavoli gang) was responsible for killing four people during 1931/32, and that he was also the man who killed Bugsy Siegel in 1947.

FWIW.

James

According to Holt, Moceri is also one of the passengers in the Olds station wagon that Holt said he drove from Licavoli's Grace Ranch to the parking lot behind Dealey Plaze and that Bowers said he saw in the hours before the assassination.

BK

Edited December 12, 2007 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

It looks like we aren't the only ones interested in this.

Mob Museum in Vegas?

It should be in Atlantic City.

BK

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6YqSKQ...eIYXQQD8TEQVK00

http://www.worldhum.com/weblog/item/las_ve...works_20071211/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1905864

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22187515/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316372,00.html

[Tim Gratz]

I know many are tired of my posts, but if you are interested in history, these points may be of interest:

(1) One of the men who took over the Flamingo immediately after Siegel's death was named Gus Greenbaum. There is an amusing reference to this incident in Godfather II.

(2) Greenbaum was a friend of Barry Goldwater and Goldwater attended his funeral (there I said it!).

(3) At the time of the murder, Greenbaum was no longer running the Flamingo but another mob-controlled resort. The mob wanted him out because he was drinking and apparently pilfering some money.

(4) There are reports (I forget where I read it) that the mob had offered Greenbaum a deal: sell your interest in the resort back to the mob and get out of Vegas and all will be well. There are reports that Rosselli was ordered to make this offer to Greenbauum. It was an offer he should not have rejected but he did.

(5) Both Greenbaum and his wife were brutally murdered (their throats were cut). Murder of a wife was of course unusual. In Harlot's Ghost, Rosselli states he objected to the wife's murder. Harlot's Ghost does not mention Greenbaum by name and you really need to know your mob history to understand the reference. This shows how carefully Harlot's Ghost was reesearched. Of couse, if one understands that Mailer's reference was to an actual event, one can conclude that every incident in the book is based on fact. Many indeed are, but not all.

(6) I am sure James will correct me if I am wrong but I am quite certain no one was ever even arrested for the Greenbaum murder.

[James Richards]

Tim,

It was not the first time tradegy struck the Greenbaum family. In 1955, Charles Greenbaum's wife was suffocated to death. No one was ever brought to justice in that case.

Barry Goldwater did cop some heat over his relationship with Gus Greenbaum but Robert Goldwater was savaged by the press for all sorts of shady business associations. Among them links to the Greenbaum's and Moe Dalitz.

One specific charge was leveled by the Investigative Reporters and Editors Inc., and that was Robert Goldwater and Arizona businessman Joseph Martori were financially involved with the 'Hobo Joe' chain of restaurants which was run by a longtime associate of Peter Licavoli.

This was one of the stories journalist Don Bolles was investigating when he was murdered.

James

[Tim Gratz]

Well I guess BG could paraphrase a famous JFK remark (after the father had stated that before JFK intervened on behalf of his son that he could not vote for JFK because JFK was Catholic): "Well, we all have our brothers!" (My reference of course is to the brother of RMN.)

[Norman T. Field]

My answer: Chauncey Holt on orders of Meyer Lansky. With an M1 Carbine on a tripod.

Just another solution of an unsolved murder, you don't have have to believe it, I don't give a damned, as long as I know myself what the truth is. And by the way, I think Chauncey was a likable great guy, much less a criminal than David Atlee Phillips and George Bush (senior or junior).

I am getting private messages through this board that I don't know how to answer. Whoever wants to get to me in private, do it at info@jfkmurdersolved.com.

Wim

There is a new book out about the Black Dahlia killing, which claims that Benny was involved and then dumped the body about two blocks from Jack Dragna's house. It also claims that Dragna's driver did the hit and confessed to it on his death bed. Interesting book cuz it claims the Black Dahlia was pregnant with Norman Chandlers child and refused and abortion, hence the killing. The mutilation was done by the abortionist to conceal the pregnancy, or so the book claims.

Sorry, I can't remember the title.

[Christopher Hall]

It looks like we aren't the only ones interested in this.

Mob Museum in Vegas?

It should be in Atlantic City.

BK

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6YqSKQ...eIYXQQD8TEQVK00

http://www.worldhum.com/weblog/item/las_ve...works_20071211/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1905864

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22187515/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316372,00.html

Perhaps Oscar Goodman will be kind enough to donate some of his old client files.

That may answer Wim's inquiry and clear up a lot of other age old mysteries.

[Scott Deitche]

It will officially remain an unsolved murder, it's too long ago to care anyway. (Wim Dankbaar)

I care.

In 1952, two telephone company agents arrested a man as he emerged from a phone booth in Hollywood. He had just phoned Las Vegas using a handful of two-bit slugs. The man said his name was John Baker and then tried to bribe his way out of it.

The agents turned him over to the police where J.E. Hamilton of the Los Angeles Intelligence Unit took over. Hamilton did a fingerprint check and discovered that the man was in fact Leo Moceri. Under questioning, Moceri finally admitted who he was and also said that he was a cousin of Peter Licavoli.

Moceri was wanted for crimes in Toledo and prosecutor Joel Rhineman began the legal process to return Moceri to Ohio.

After the interrogation, Hamilton was of the belief that Moceri (as a member of the Yonnie Licavoli gang) was responsible for killing four people during 1931/32, and that he was also the man who killed Bugsy Siegel in 1947.

FWIW.

James

Some info on Leo "Lips" Moceri:

DOB- 5/20/07 , Detroit real name Callagiro Maceri

From 1924-1930 arrested numerous times in Detroit on suspicion of murder and robbery- never convicted. Moceri was considered a close associate of James Zerilli.

In 1931 Moceri relocated to Toledo.

March 8, 1934- Moceri named as member of Licavoli gang- suspected of involvement in 4 murders

10/30/47- Moceri suspected of hit on Jerry Buckley, Milford Jones, and John Dirjundy in Detroit.

late 1940's- Moceri moves to Los Angeles area.

1960- owned an apt. on COllins Ave in Miami Beach

August of 1976- Moceri "dissappears" during Cleveland Mafia war.