Oswald & Ammunition

[William Kelly]

Edward J. Epstein, in this Annals of Unsolved Crime - wants us to believe we'll never know why Oswald killed Kennedy.

For someone who knows as much about the crime as he does, EJE should know Oswald didn't kill anybody, that Mrs. Paine didn't drive Oswald to New Orleans (he took a bus), and there's no evidence anywhere that he ever bought or was given any ammunition, so his statement about Oswald buying ammunition is wrong.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-epstein/a...e_b_366400.html

Where did the ammo come from?

BK

[Bernice Moore]

Bill perhaps....b

[Guest John Gillespie]

I thought the info in this thread is relevant to the discussion on the empty cartridge shells found on the sixth floor.

BK

________________________

Yeah, relevance is paramount. But I feel relieved to somehow deduce that there were no personal effects found in those empty cartridges, either,

JG

Edited December 1, 2009 by John Gillespie

[William Kelly]

I thought the info in this thread is relevant to the discussion on the empty cartridge shells found on the sixth floor.

BK

________________________

Yeah, relevance is paramount. But I feel relieved to somehow deduce that there were no personal effects found in those empty cartridges, either,

JG

Did anyone write to Edward J. Epstein or Huffington Post about his article on Annals of Crime that said that Oswald bought the ammo?

That false statement can't be left to go uncorrected.

BK

[Bernice Moore]

YOU MAY BE INTERESTED IN THIS DOCUMENT ABOUT THE AMMUNITION SUPPOSEDLY USED...B

Edited February 20, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

That Western Ammunition has an interesting history. Bought by Olin Corporation, in 1920's, site of labor and racial hiring unrest in '42, '44. Olin Foundation, major funder of right wing think tanks and endowed chairs in major Universities, was spun from it in 1953.

[William Kelly]

That Western Ammunition has an interesting history. Bought by Olin Corporation, in 1920's, site of labor and racial hiring unrest in '42, '44. Olin Foundation, major funder of right wing think tanks and endowed chairs in major Universities, was spun from it in 1953.

Besides the three shells found on the floof of the Sniper's Nest, and the bullets in the rifle, no other 6.5 bullet were ever found.

Were there .38 bullets in the pistol found on Oswald at the theater?

In addition, after being searched once, interrogated once and placed in a lineup, four .38 bullets were found in Oswald's pocket.

How was that possible?

Were these bullets ever checked, as were the 6.5 shells, as to what batch they were part of?

Since bullets can't be purchased individually, they are bought in boxes that are part of a case, that are part of a batch that can be traced, as were the 6.5 bullets traced to the USMC in 1948.

Were the bullets found in Oswald's pocket ever traced to their original source?

BK

[John Dolva]

That Western Ammunition has an interesting history. Bought by Olin Corporation, in 1920's, site of labor and racial hiring unrest in '42, '44. Olin Foundation, major funder of right wing think tanks and endowed chairs in major Universities, was spun from it in 1953.

Besides the three shells found on the floof of the Sniper's Nest, and the bullets in the rifle, no other 6.5 bullet were ever found.

Were there .38 bullets in the pistol found on Oswald at the theater?

In addition, after being searched once, interrogated once and placed in a lineup, four .38 bullets were found in Oswald's pocket.

How was that possible?

Were these bullets ever checked, as were the 6.5 shells, as to what batch they were part of?

Since bullets can't be purchased individually, they are bought in boxes that are part of a case, that are part of a batch that can be traced, as were the 6.5 bullets traced to the USMC in 1948.

Were the bullets found in Oswald's pocket ever traced to their original source?

BK

I think the answer to that begs close scrutiny.

[John Dolva]

Oswald was captured and restrained thoroughly and handcuffed with his hands behind him. He was searched, he was the cop killer.

Yet, crucial evidence (Oswald had many opportunities to dispose of them) over the next 1 + hour/s remains in his pocket, to be found in particular circumastances and timing. I guess some things just take a bit of time to get done. (There were many opportunities when a thorough search would clearly have been indicative as needed during this time of detention, don't you think?)

[William O'Neil]

I thought the info in this thread is relevant to the discussion on the empty cartridge shells found on the sixth floor.

BK

.....Exactly, maybe a coulple of them ( from the Range) did end up there.....

-Bill

[William O'Neil]

Oswald was captured and restrained thoroughly and handcuffed with his hands behind him. He was searched, he was the cop killer.

Yet, crucial evidence (Oswald had many opportunities to dispose of them) over the next 1 + hour/s remains in his pocket, to be found in particular circumastances and timing. I guess some things just take a bit of time to get done. (There were many opportunities when a thorough search would clearly have been indicative as needed during this time of detention, don't you think?)

The 'Chain of Custody' was shakey to non -existant in both instances (rifle and pistol). One has to rely on the word of the DPD.....are they trustworthy??

-Bill

[Bernice Moore]

[.

Were there .38 bullets in the pistol found on Oswald at the theater?

In addition, after being searched once, interrogated once and placed in a lineup, four .38 bullets were found in Oswald's pocket.

How was that possible?

Were these bullets ever checked, as were the 6.5 shells, as to what batch they were part of?

Since bullets can't be purchased individually, they are bought in boxes that are part of a case, that are part of a batch that can be traced, as were the 6.5 bullets traced to the USMC in 1948.

Were the bullets found in Oswald's pocket ever traced to their original source?

BK

I think the answer to that begs close scrutiny.

is this information of any use.. .b

Revolver Bullets

Four bullets were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit. In Nicol's opinion one of the four bullets could be positively identified with test bullets fired from V510210 revolver, and the other three could have been fired from that revolver. In Cunningham's opinion all four bullets could have been fired from the V510210 revolver, but none could be positively identified to the revolverthat is, in his opinion the bullets bore the revolver's rifling characteristics, but no conclusion could be drawn on the basis of microscopic characteristics. Cunningham did not conclude that the bullets had not been fired from the revolver, since he found that consecutive bullets fired in the revolver by the FBI could not even be identified with each other under the microscope. The apparent reasons for this was that while the revolver had been rechambered for a . 38 Special cartridge, it had not been rebarreled for a . 38 Special bullet. The barrel was therefore slightly oversized for a . 38 Special bullet, which has a smaller diameter than a . 38 S. & W. bullet. This would cause the passage of a . 38 Special bullet through the barrel to be erratic, resulting in inconsistent microscopic markings.

Based on the number of grooves, groove widths, groove spacing, and knurling on the four recovered bullets, three were copper-coated lead bullets of Western-Winchester manufacture (Western and Winchester are divisions of the same company), and the fourth was a lead bullet of Remington-Peters manufacture. This contrasts with the four recovered cartridge cases, which consisted of two Remington-Peters and two Westerns. There are several possible explanations for this variance: (1) the killer fired five cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and two of which were Remington-Peters; one Remington-Peters bullet missed Tippit; and a Western-Winchester cartridge case and the Remington-Peters bullet that missed were simply not found. (2) The killer fired only four cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and one of which was Remington-Peters; prior to the shooting the killer had an expended Remington- Peters cartridge case in his revolver, which was ejected with the three Western-Winchester and one Remington-Peters cases; and one of the Western-Winchester cases was not found. (3) The killer was using hand-loaded ammunition, that is, ammunition which is made with used cartridge cases to save money; thus he might have loaded one make of bullet into another make of cartridge case. This third possibility is extremely unlikely, because when a cartridge is fired the cartridge case expands, and before it can be reused it must be resized. There was, however, no evidence that any of the four recovered cartridge cases had been resized.

http://www.geocities.com/jfkinfo/app10.htm#p5

NARA Record Number: 124-10371-10120

ADMIN FOLDER-A11: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, OUTGOING COMMISSION FOLDER VOLUME V

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=104

[Bernice Moore]

[.

Were there .38 bullets in the pistol found on Oswald at the theater?

In addition, after being searched once, interrogated once and placed in a lineup, four .38 bullets were found in Oswald's pocket.

How was that possible?

Were these bullets ever checked, as were the 6.5 shells, as to what batch they were part of?

Since bullets can't be purchased individually, they are bought in boxes that are part of a case, that are part of a batch that can be traced, as were the 6.5 bullets traced to the USMC in 1948.

Were the bullets found in Oswald's pocket ever traced to their original source?

BK

I think the answer to that begs close scrutiny.

is this information of any use.. .b

Revolver Bullets

Four bullets were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit. In Nicol's opinion one of the four bullets could be positively identified with test bullets fired from V510210 revolver, and the other three could have been fired from that revolver. In Cunningham's opinion all four bullets could have been fired from the V510210 revolver, but none could be positively identified to the revolverthat is, in his opinion the bullets bore the revolver's rifling characteristics, but no conclusion could be drawn on the basis of microscopic characteristics. Cunningham did not conclude that the bullets had not been fired from the revolver, since he found that consecutive bullets fired in the revolver by the FBI could not even be identified with each other under the microscope. The apparent reasons for this was that while the revolver had been rechambered for a . 38 Special cartridge, it had not been rebarreled for a . 38 Special bullet. The barrel was therefore slightly oversized for a . 38 Special bullet, which has a smaller diameter than a . 38 S. & W. bullet. This would cause the passage of a . 38 Special bullet through the barrel to be erratic, resulting in inconsistent microscopic markings.

Based on the number of grooves, groove widths, groove spacing, and knurling on the four recovered bullets, three were copper-coated lead bullets of Western-Winchester manufacture (Western and Winchester are divisions of the same company), and the fourth was a lead bullet of Remington-Peters manufacture. This contrasts with the four recovered cartridge cases, which consisted of two Remington-Peters and two Westerns. There are several possible explanations for this variance: (1) the killer fired five cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and two of which were Remington-Peters; one Remington-Peters bullet missed Tippit; and a Western-Winchester cartridge case and the Remington-Peters bullet that missed were simply not found. (2) The killer fired only four cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and one of which was Remington-Peters; prior to the shooting the killer had an expended Remington- Peters cartridge case in his revolver, which was ejected with the three Western-Winchester and one Remington-Peters cases; and one of the Western-Winchester cases was not found. (3) The killer was using hand-loaded ammunition, that is, ammunition which is made with used cartridge cases to save money; thus he might have loaded one make of bullet into another make of cartridge case. This third possibility is extremely unlikely, because when a cartridge is fired the cartridge case expands, and before it can be reused it must be resized. There was, however, no evidence that any of the four recovered cartridge cases had been resized.

http://www.geocities.com/jfkinfo/app10.htm#p5

NARA Record Number: 124-10371-10120

ADMIN FOLDER-A11: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, OUTGOING COMMISSION FOLDER VOLUME V

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=104

[William Kelly]

Oswald was captured and restrained thoroughly and handcuffed with his hands behind him. He was searched, he was the cop killer.

Yet, crucial evidence (Oswald had many opportunities to dispose of them) over the next 1 + hour/s remains in his pocket, to be found in particular circumastances and timing. I guess some things just take a bit of time to get done. (There were many opportunities when a thorough search would clearly have been indicative as needed during this time of detention, don't you think?)

The 'Chain of Custody' was shakey to non -existant in both instances (rifle and pistol). One has to rely on the word of the DPD.....are they trustworthy??

-Bill

Well, let's see. They failed to secure the Sniper's Nest before crime scene photos could be taken, they failed to secure the TSBD building and let the assassin(s) waltz right away, and they failed to find the bullets in the pockets of their chief suspect and failed to secure the safety of that suspect to the point he was killed in their custody.

And thanks for the report on the Tippit murder bullets B., but I don't buy the idea that they were hand loaded to save money. That just doesn't make any sense, as it would take more trouble than they were worth to hand load them even for the most frugal of Oswalds.

But I can't seem to find any attempt to investigate the origin of the live bullets found in Oswald's pocket hours after his arrest, an investigation that should have identified the manufacturer and the wholesale distribution of the cases and cartons those bullets came in.

BK

[Guest Tom Scully]

All you have to do is start a thread titled "What Is The Point?" to trigger a small book's worth of replies?

I'm not going to post there and feed it further. INstead, I'm bumping this in case anyone finds helpful info in it.