Louis Steven Witt : Umbrella Man

[Bernice Moore]

I have no real problem with accepting Witt may not be the original UM. I just see no reason to believe there was anything sinister in that. Some people will confess to anything...even murder, to get publicity. I also dont accept there was anything sinister in the original UM actions on the day of the assassination for the same reasons I posted earlier i.e. A member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously, why would he have to? A simple raising of the arm, waving a hat or lifting a placard welcoming the president would have done the job just as well and gone completely unnoticed. Can anyone explain that away? Because all I'm reading so far are post's from members saying they believe UM was part of the conspiracy. That's all very interesting and they are certainly entitled but without facts or reason to back it up its meaningless.

I stand by the fact stated in post #7, paragraph 2. Having grown up in the 1960s, I could elaborate - Lenny Bruce would have elaborated had he seen the tableau of these odd companions. I'm surprised that the image, if innocent, wasn't exploited in period magazines.

Unless photos were altered, and I don't believe these were, the radio and antenna on the "Latin" or "Cuban" look very compelling. Might there be facts proving this guy was a Kennedy protector, not a JFK-killer?

Scenario: The "Cuban" is there to give a "simple raising of the arm," telling Cuban hit team members or radio coordinators that a fatal wound is not delivered by that logistical point ahead of the front team. Umbrella man is there as a partner, to allow the non-Cuban hitters to discern the "Cuban" from any stray Mexican male in the Texas street - "He's the guy in white, next to the guy holding the black umbrella!"

The umbrella is a signature directed toward Kennedy and his crew, and supporters of the assassination: This coup is authored by the military and its partners in intel, who will not countenance appeasement in Cuba or SE Asia. SE Asia is especially connected to the umbrella by WW II. These guys see SE Asia as a policy hangover from the Japanese surrender and the subsequent lamented loss of China.

One fact is that we are responding to incongruities that we don't fully understand: A dark man in a light coat. A light man in a dark coat. Together.

So this is a theory of congruity based on a situational fact of xenophobia (post #7, paragraph 2) that, in its negative form, explains presence and propinquity in the curbside photos.

hi david again...... thanks for your input and opinion..it is what makes forums successful....i have been trying to present somewhat of a model simply attempting to account for the data.and research that has been done over time...I am simply trying to present what data has been processed on dcm and tum from in the past....all will make up their own minds.....to me the possibility of four men seen with radios before during and after the assassination raises questions..why at a presidential motorcade when they certainly were not fbi nor ss that day.......one of whom was with umbrella man..... see within photos that i have posted.thanks ..B ..robin...thanks for the photo..showing dcm in the street..

Edited October 14, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[James Richards]

Peter,

There are no doubts that DCM and UM had a working relationship, one in fact that went back to late 1962. This involved a revolutionary group that operated under the direction of Dr. Julio Garceran who continued his anti-Castro activities well into 1963.

These two guys were seasoned warriors who had varying degrees of success in the world of hit and run into Cuba.

DCM was of course signalling. What is telling here is not that the umbrella was open when the limo passed, but that not long after the shooting, it was closed.

James

[Mark Haley]

Here you go, Bernice.

The umbrella is in what position, when JFK first reaches for his throat???

chris

Thanks for posting the gif Chris. Very helpful

On first viewing I thought the Umbrella was twirling but, having increased the size and taken a good long repeated look at the visible frames, it seems to go down at the very start of the clip, then up.

Focusing on one point on the rim of the Umbrella reveals it barely twirls at all.

[Robin Unger]

BronsonCrop.

I am suprised know one has come up with the theory:

That the old bloke standing under the TSBD window in front of Brennan, who takes of his hat as the limo passes is also a signal man. !

Edited October 14, 2009 by Robin Unger

[Ron Ecker]

Would be interesting to know how/who recruited Witt to play patsy for TUM...he doesn't even resemble him

This is one of the aggravating things about the whole murder case. In the Grant photo Witt does resemble UM. But then in Bothun UM resembles Novel. Two of the tramps look like they could be Hunt and Sturgis, but apparently weren't. So were the lookalikes at Main and Houston really just lookalikes? Who would go to the trouble of scouring the countryside for lookalikes of UM and others, then be able to talk them into going along with it, and even being there (in the Main and Houston cases) on that day? It wouldn't be worth the trouble. After all, practically no one has ever cared who these people were (with the exception of the tramps), with the lookalikes at Main and Houston not even noticed (as far as I know) till a few years ago. So this is one of the strangest parts of the case, to me anyway. It could all be coincidence, but I hate coincidences.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Ron Ecker

[Denis Pointing]

With Witt's testimony easily blown out of the water, surely believing Umberella Man might have been part of a conspiracy is as valid as believing he isn't. There's no 'facts or reason' either way...just a man standing within a few feet of a doomed President jigging an umbrella about above his head.

Mark, there are "facts or reason either way" I gave some in my post which you dont seem to have read properly, I shall repeat them. " A member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously, why would he have to? A simple raising of the arm, waving a hat or lifting a placard welcoming the president would have done the job just as well and gone completely unnoticed." Can you or anybody else counter that argument with a sensible argument? I'm really not interested in peoples belief or gut feelings. Thank you.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[Brian O Connor]

[/quote/b]

hi brian ...''who would be most likely to see it first?'' I imagine only those perhaps who were watching for the signal.if as some say lho could see from the tsbd 6th floor window past signs people and all i imagine those who were ready and waiting could also...you bring up another thought why was the sign taken down after, some did say a shot hit it..and it showed a bullet hole...B

[/quote/b]

Hi Bernice, for me the first shot is crucial. A missed shot or wounding right at the beginning might have alerted the President and ruined their objectives. And, because I think that the people involved were as clever as they were murderous, I believe the first shot, the the throat wound, was thought up and meant to incapacitate the target, lowering the odds for the long distance shooters.

I think that from the position he took up, the UM has made himself pretty difficult to see from all but a couple of the supposed shooting nests. What is the point in making a difficult task even more complicated; squinting through the trees, or trying to catch a signal of a corner of the umbrella behind the sign.

No, for me, the UM signal was made to someone between the Traffic sign and the limousine (and it would have to be to accomplish the frontal throat wound)

I don't see anyone there firing a weapon and anyway even if it were possible for a spectator standing in the crowd to secretly make the shot, why would he wait for a signal from behind when shooting to the front.

The removal of the sign might well be because of a bullet hole; but from which side? I think that Arlon Spector might have had the problem of another missile which even his magic bullet couldn't account for.

An umbrella weapon held as it was above his head and fired by someone in a bolt right posture, standing at this distance to the car, just seems to me to be too formidable a task to have worked with the accuracy required.

The guy waiting for the signal was sitting in either the driver seat or front passanger seat in the Presidents car.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Brian O Connor

[Bernice Moore]

..

Edited October 14, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

HI BRIAN....

THERE IS MUCH ON THE WEB AND HERE ON THE THROAT SHOT COMING FROM THE FRONT FROM THE SOUTH SIDE AREA OF THE OVERPASS..IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO MARY FARRELL'S SITE THERE IS DOUG WELDON'S DEEP RESEARCH WITHIN..FYI......ALSO PUBLISHED WITHIN DR.FETZER'S BOOK ....WHICH CAN BE BOUGHT VERY REASONABLY USED....I DO HAVE THE MF LINK TO DOUG'S WILL FIND IT AND POST FOR YOU IF YOU CANNOT ACCESS......THE W/C S POSITION WAS ONLY 3 SHOTS ALL FROM THE TSBD AS YOU KNOW....AFTER IT PAST THE TSBD..ONE MISSING...ONE ENTERING THE BACK OF JFKS NECK AND EXITING HIS THROAT EVEN THOUGH THE TRAJECTORY WAS IMPOSSIBLE.....IT THEN ENTERED CONNALLY'S BACK SNAPPED OFF A RIB BROKE HIS RIGHT WRIST AND LODGING IN HIS LEFT THIGH...EVEN THOUGH CONNALLY DISAGREED WITHIN HIS TESTIMONY AND HE WAS THERE AND RECEIVED SUCH AND WAS A HUNTER.....THE 3RD SHOT THEN ENTERINGTHE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD CAUSING A FATAL INJURY.....AND NO SHOTS COMING FROM THE FRONT AS PER THE W/C.,SIMPLE NO..!! NO..IMO...THE EVIDENCE AS GIVEN WITHIN THE W/C THE TESTIMONY OF WITNESSES AND ALSO THOSE WHO ARE NOT WITHIN..POINTS TO AN AMBUSH OF MANY SHOTS FROM PERHAPS SEVERAL POINTS.......FORREST SORRELL'S THE SS AGENT IN CHARGE WHO DROVE THE ROUTE A FEW days before stated '' someone wanting to get the president of the united states could do it with a high powered rifle (which the m/c was not...)...could do it from some building or some hillside ; MARTIN A HERO FOR OUR TIME PAGE 387...SORRELLS WAS IN THE LEAD CAR...AND WITHIN HIS TESTIMONY TO THE W/C WHEN HE HEARD THE FIRST REPORT HE TURNED AROUND TO LOOK UO ON THE TERRACE BECAUSE THE SOUND , SOUNDED LIKE IT CAME FROM BACK UP THERE..''BUT THE REORT SEEMED SO LOUD THAT IT SOUNDED LIKE TO ME IN OTHER WORDS THAT MY FIRST THOUGHT ' SOMEBODY UP ON THE TERRACE'' AND THAT IS THE REASON I LOOKED UP THERE...CHIEF CURRY ALSO IN THE LEAD CAR STATED A SHOT CAME FROM THE FRONT..SORRELLS ALSO SAID AT THE TIME HE NEVER LOOKED BACK UP AT THE BUILDING..VOL 7 P 338...ROY KELLERMAN SSSA IN CHARGE OF THE W/H SECURITY FOR THE TRIP WHO RODE IN THE SAME CAR AS JFK...STATED HE HEARD A FIRECRACKER TYPE NOISE,,AND THAT HE HEARD A VOICE FROM THE BACK THOUGH THE DOCS THOUGHT IT IMPOSSIBLE,,,,SAY '' MY GOD I'M HIT '' AS HE TURNED AROUND TO LOOK HE SAW THE PRESIDENT'S HANDS GO UP TO HIS THROAT...IN A CHOKING GESTURE...HE THEN STATED ''A FLURRY OF SHELLS COMING INTO THE CAR,,''HE ALSO DESCRIBED THE SECOND AND THIRD SHOTS AS SOUNDING LIKE AS A DOUBLE BANG...LIKE THAT OF A PLANE BREAKING THE SOUND BARRIER.....HEARINGS PAGE 78 VOL 11 THEN ALSO THERE IS RR INSPECTOR SAM HOLLAND AND THE RR MEN ON THE OVERPASS...SEE MARK LANE'S VIDEO.....FRANK REILLY OVERPASS AND SEVEN OTHERS I THINK....BOTH THE NEWMANS..ABE ZAPRUDER HIMSELF WHO PUTS A SHOT FROM BEHIND HIM FROM HIS RIGHT STANDING ON THE PEDESTAL...THESE WITNESSES CO-ORDINATE WITH SO MANY OTHERS I DO NOT THINK WE CAN POSSIBLY IGNORE THEM ALL.....INCLUDING DPD OFFICER MARSHALL AS WELL AS ANOTHER SS LANDIS.......PERSONALLY DO I NOW THINK A DART HIT HIM IN THE THROAT NO.....BUT I HAVE BEEN PRESENTING OTHER'S RESEARCH WHICH .IS AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE'S PERUSAL...WAS SUCH A WEAPON AVAILABLE THROUGH THE CIA YES...DO I THINK HE WAS HIT BY A SS FROM WITHIN THE CAR NO.,BUT I DO WONDER IF THE UMBRELLA MAN AND DCM WERE SIGNALING FOR WHOMEVER WAS UP ON THE KNOLL OR WHEREVER TO FIRE....HE WAS THERE WITHIN RANGE AND A PRIME TARGET....FIRE AND THEY DID...ALSO SEE THE YELLOW PAINT MARKINGS ON THE CURB SIDES MARKING WITHIN THE AREA WHERE HE WAS HIT....FROM MORE THAN ONE SITE..IMO....THERE WERE ALSO OTHER EXAMPLES WITHIN DEALEY OF HITS THAT WERE IGNORED AND THEN COVERED UP ALSO....COUNTING MANY MORE THAN THE W/C'S FARCE OF JUST 3...PERHAPS YOU WOULD BE INTERESTRED IN PAUL RIGBY'S WORK....HE ALSO HAS A THEORY SIMILAR TO YOURS..THAT THE SS SHOT JFK.FROM WITHIN THE LIMO...WHICH IMO IS TOO EACH THEIR OWN AND I DO RESPECT WITHOUT THROWING CRUMMY OR NASTY REMARKS IN ANY WAY...PERHAPS SHOWING THEIR L.R BELIEFS..BECAUSE I DIFFER MEANS I SIMPLY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION AND I CERTAINLY COULD BE IN ERROR AGAIN..BUT I REALIZE YOUR WORK AND RESEARCH THAT YOU AND OTHERS HAVE PUT INTO SUCH AND I DO AND THAT SHOULD BE RESPECTED AS I ALSO DO WITH THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE DART THEORY......SO FOR NOW THANKS FOR THE COME BACK..THIS HAS IMO BEEN A VERY INTERESTING THREAD.....BEST B..

RON...SOME WILL DO AND HAVE ANYTHING FOR MONEY EVEN STAND AT A CURBSIDE AND WATCH A PARADE,,,THANKS JAMES FOR THE INPUT......PETER NO BOOK.....PERHAPS SOME DAY A CD OR SUCH I COULD NEVER AUTHOR A BOOK THE LANGUAGE IN PARTS WOULD BE SHALL WE SAY TOO COLOURFUL TO EVER PASS..

Edited October 14, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

here perhaps are also others opinions to contemplate........B

S. I said Bernardo de Torres (as possible DCM) in an earlier post. I meant to say Felipe Vidal Santiago. (Thomas Graves)

Hi Thomas,

It seems that researchers are split between DCM being Orlando Bosch or Felipe Vidal Santiago. I for one have swayed strongly toward Vidal for quite some time and his sidekick being Roy Hargraves.

I am going to be hard pressed to change my mind but over the last few months, another combination has been thrown into the mix, Evelio Duque and Jerry Buchanan. I present it here as just another possibility and as a combination of characters which are curious to say the least. These two guys worked together on a regular basis and the Agency had a keen interest in Duque.

Bottom line is that DCM was positioned right amongst the action and his behavior (pre and post shooting) was supicious to say the least.

FWIW.

James

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

Shortcut to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=8095&st=15

[Jim Feemster]

Here's another thing thats's kind of spooky.

Look at the film of Ozwald in N.O. handing out leaflets on the corner in front of the building where Clay Shaw worked.

You'll see a tall slender dark complected man walk up on the curb as OZ hands him a leaflet. He is wearing the same style hat as the DCM in Dealy Plaza.

Could these two be the same man?

I'm not saying they are but I wish someone could put their photos up besides each other in this thread so this suspicion of mine would go away or be confirmed.

jim

[Bernice Moore]

Here's another thing thats's kind of spooky.

Look at the film of Ozwald in N.O. handing out leaflets on the corner in front of the building where Clay Shaw worked.

You'll see a tall slender dark complected man walk up on the curb as OZ hands him a leaflet. He is wearing the same style hat as the DCM in Dealy Plaza.

Could these two be the same man?

I'm not saying they are but I wish someone could put their photos up besides each other in this thread so this suspicion of mine would go away or be confirmed.

jim

JIM I Took A look but could not find a man stepping up on the curb,, but then my eyes are certainly lacking sometime more than often..but here are two compilations re n.o frames perhaps if seen you could point him out.one is james' work...i know .the other ?? now sorry...and some photos from the past of possibles whose names have been mentioned not many but fwtaw..you may want to compare.......best b..if not I do have other frames from lho in n.os re the leaflet episodes..

Edited October 14, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[David Andrews]

Leaving social issues strictly out of it - I'm thinking, again (sorry) that these guys are tethered to each other for a purpose. Some of the hitters may not know the Cuban signaler, so Umbrella man is there to be a signpost to him, so that he isn't lost in any crowd or discounted as a bystander.

The pairing of a light coat and a dark coat is intentional, to draw attention to them. But they walk away in opposite directions after a little hide-in-plain-sight, so there's plausible deniability: one saw the other sit down in shock, so he sat, too. While they're polishing that curb, everybody else is running in panic or rising from hitting the grass.

Having UM sitting next to him makes the Cuban and whatever is stuffed under his jacket look less noteworthy. I'm not sure that fake Secret Service credentials would have helped this guy - so UM's there as his beard.

+++

"When I talk of a deep state, this term (as opposed to others, like deep politics), is not my own invention. It is a translation of the Turkish gizli devlet, or derin devlet, a term used to describe the networks revealed by the so-called Susurluk incident of 1996, when the victims traveling together in what became a deadly car crash were identified as 'an MP, a police chief, a beauty queen and her lover, a top Turkish gangster and hitman called Abdullah Catli.' The giveaway was that 'Catli, a heroin trafficker on Interpol's wanted list, was carrying a diplomatic passport signed by none other than the Turkish Interior Minister himself.' He was carrying narcotics with him at the time of the crash." -- Peter Dale Scott

Edited October 15, 2009 by David Andrews

[Bernice Moore]

peter i thought i had posted this for you but upon checking the thread i could not find such the study from sprague......complete with his comparisons to the zapruder frames included..to the actions seen i believe .....John if I have posted then if you do find please delete..though I shall check again........b ??

[Mark Haley]

With Witt's testimony easily blown out of the water, surely believing Umberella Man might have been part of a conspiracy is as valid as believing he isn't. There's no 'facts or reason' either way...just a man standing within a few feet of a doomed President jigging an umbrella about above his head.

Mark, there are "facts or reason either way" I gave some in my post which you dont seem to have read properly, I shall repeat them. " A member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously, why would he have to? A simple raising of the arm, waving a hat or lifting a placard welcoming the president would have done the job just as well and gone completely unnoticed." Can you or anybody else counter that argument with a sensible argument? I'm really not interested in peoples belief or gut feelings. Thank you.

Denis, we seem to have had a different interpretation of 'Facts Or Reason' in this instance.

To clarify, my response was really specific to the testimony of the man name checked in the title of this thread. Louis Steven Witt.

It is his testimony to the HSCA that are the only official 'facts or reason'. They accepted them (despite photographic and film evidence to the contrary).

My position is this. I don't believe Witt was Umbrella Man. His description of Umbrella Man's actions (in my opinion) don't match the photographic and film record.

If Witt wasn't Umbrella Man, then no 'Facts Or Reason' as I was referring to them exist, because whoever was 'Umbrella Man', to the best of my knowledge, walked away from the scene and was never interviewed by the authorities.

Your interpretation of 'Facts Or Reason'... well, "a member of an assassins team would never act so conspicuously" seems a very sound reason to me. Is it a fact though ? Having never been part of an assassins team I wouldn't know but I would hesitate to call it a fact. It's more, dare I say it, a belief.

I can't really comment on your other 'reasons' as Umbrella Man didn't 'wave a hat' or 'lift a placard' so aren't really reasons. The only 'arm he raised' was the one holding the umbrella.

A couple of other posters here have given 'reasons' for Umbrella Man's behaviour which sound plausible to me. Neither of them are 'facts' but I don't believe they should be simply dismissed without debate.