Skaggs seen in Mentesana Film

[Robin Unger]

Credit: Martin Hinrichs.

I beleive this to be Skaggs on the left of the frame:

Skaggs # 17

[Robin Unger]

I think this finishes Grodens 2nd Mauser being found theory. !

It is quite obviously a shotgun the officer is holding.

[Bernice Moore]

I think this finishes Grodens 2nd Mauser being found theory. !

It is quite obviously a shotgun the officer is holding.

ROBIN ...I AM THINKING THAT GRODEN'S MAUSER THEORY AS YOU CALL IT ...WAS ALSO SHARED BY SHAW AND OTHER EARLY RESEARCHERS...THEY REPORTED ON SUCH IN HIS BOOK COVER-UP..NOT POSITIVE...WOULD HAVE TO CHECK..BUT THE PHOTO SPOKEN OF WAS NOT THIS ONE..I BELIEVE IT IS WAS STATED AS BEING TAKEN OF AN OFFICER BRINGING IT DOWN HOLDING IT UP AS HE CARRIED IT DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE STAIRS AT THE SIDE OF THE TSBD..FROM THE ROOF......PLUS IT WAS I BELIEVE 3 DAYS OR LONGER BEFORE THE DPD AND AUTHOURITYS FINALLY CALLED IT A M/C THEY KEPT STATING ''SEE EARLY REPORTS''..IT WAS A MAUSER I BELIEVE WADE ALSO DID AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND TV REPORTS ..AS THE AUTHOURITIES KEPT REPORTING IT AS A MAUSER...AND SO THAT IS WHAT THEY CONTINUED TO REPORT.THANKS ..B...

Edited November 24, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[John Kennedy White]

I think this finishes Grodens 2nd Mauser being found theory. !

It is quite obviously a shotgun the officer is holding.

ROBIN ...I AM THINKING THAT GRODEN'S MAUSER THEORY AS YOU CALL IT ...WAS ALSO SHARED BY SHAW AND OTHER EARLY RESEARCHERS...THEY REPORTED ON SUCH IN HIS BOOK COVER-UP..NOT POSITIVE...WOULD HAVE TO CHECK..BUT THE PHOTO SPOKEN OF WAS NOT THIS ONE..I BELIEVE IT IS WAS STATED AS BEING TAKEN OF AN OFFICER BRINGING IT DOWN HOLDING IT UP AS HE CARRIED IT DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE STAIRS AT THE SIDE OF THE TSBD..FROM THE ROOF......PLUS IT WAS I BELIEVE 3 DAYS OR LONGER BEFORE THE DPD AND AUTHOURITYS FINALLY CALLED IT A M/C THEY KEPT STATING ''SEE EARLY REPORTS''..IT WAS A MAUSER I BELIEVE WADE ALSO DID AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND TV REPORTS ..AS THE AUTHOURITIES KEPT REPORTING IT AS A MAUSER...AND SO THAT IS WHAT THEY CONTINUED TO REPORT.THANKS ..B...

Agreed, it's in the Roger Craig video clip where he says he was six inches away as the gun went by and could read "Mauser"

[Bernice Moore]

I think this finishes Grodens 2nd Mauser being found theory. !

It is quite obviously a shotgun the officer is holding.

ROBIN ...I AM THINKING THAT GRODEN'S MAUSER THEORY AS YOU CALL IT ...WAS ALSO SHARED BY SHAW AND OTHER EARLY RESEARCHERS...THEY REPORTED ON SUCH IN HIS BOOK COVER-UP..NOT POSITIVE...WOULD HAVE TO CHECK..BUT THE PHOTO SPOKEN OF WAS NOT THIS ONE..I BELIEVE IT IS WAS STATED AS BEING TAKEN OF AN OFFICER BRINGING IT DOWN HOLDING IT UP AS HE CARRIED IT DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE STAIRS AT THE SIDE OF THE TSBD..FROM THE ROOF......PLUS IT WAS I BELIEVE 3 DAYS OR LONGER BEFORE THE DPD AND AUTHOURITYS FINALLY CALLED IT A M/C THEY KEPT STATING ''SEE EARLY REPORTS''..IT WAS A MAUSER I BELIEVE WADE ALSO DID AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND TV REPORTS ..AS THE AUTHOURITIES KEPT REPORTING IT AS A MAUSER...AND SO THAT IS WHAT THEY CONTINUED TO REPORT.THANKS ..B...

Agreed, it's in the Roger Craig video clip where he says he was six inches away as the gun went by and could read "Mauser"

hi john kennedy white...great name needless to say... there are i believe several threads on Roger's and the other two dpd officer's mauser information re the tsbd try search on the forum..thanks..there was also a report of an enfield...b

Edited November 24, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

I think this finishes Grodens 2nd Mauser being found theory. !

It is quite obviously a shotgun the officer is holding.

ROBIN ...I AM THINKING THAT GRODEN'S MAUSER THEORY AS YOU CALL IT ...WAS ALSO SHARED BY SHAW AND OTHER EARLY RESEARCHERS...THEY REPORTED ON SUCH IN HIS BOOK COVER-UP..NOT POSITIVE...WOULD HAVE TO CHECK..BUT THE PHOTO SPOKEN OF WAS NOT THIS ONE..I BELIEVE IT IS WAS STATED AS BEING TAKEN OF AN OFFICER BRINGING IT DOWN HOLDING IT UP AS HE CARRIED IT DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE STAIRS AT THE SIDE OF THE TSBD..FROM THE ROOF......PLUS IT WAS I BELIEVE 3 DAYS OR LONGER BEFORE THE DPD AND AUTHOURITYS FINALLY CALLED IT A M/C THEY KEPT STATING ''SEE EARLY REPORTS''..IT WAS A MAUSER I BELIEVE WADE ALSO DID AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND TV REPORTS ..AS THE AUTHOURITIES KEPT REPORTING IT AS A MAUSER...AND SO THAT IS WHAT THEY CONTINUED TO REPORT.THANKS ..B...

Agreed, it's in the Roger Craig video clip where he says he was six inches away as the gun went by and could read "Mauser"

hi john kennedy white...great name needless to say... there are i believe several threads on Roger's and the other two dpd officer's mauser information re the tsbd try search on the forum..thanks..there was also a report of an enfield...b

Action on the Roof

Oswald's 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano was not the only weapon seen in Dealey Plaza that day. At1 p.m. Dallas police officers were filmed by Ernest Charles Mentesana removing a rifle from the roof of the Depository. Unlike the Oswald rifle, the rifle Mentesana filmed had no sling, no scope, and protruded at least 7-8 inches past the stock, where Oswald's extended only 4-5 inches. <17> In the film two police officers are standing on a fire escape at the seventh floor of the Depository gesturing to the roof. In the next sequence the rifle is being examined.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram reporter Thayer Waldo watched a group of high-ranking Dallas police officers huddle together for a conference just a few minutes after 1 p.m. on the day of the shooting. When he spoke to a secretary who was privy to the officers' conversations, she told Waldo that police officers had found a rifle on the "roof of the School Book Depository." <18>

W. Anthony Marsh believes the rifle shown in the film is very likely a Dallas Police Department Remington 870 shotgun. Marsh notes that the Dallas Police Department used Remington 870 shotguns. One of the officers escorting three men in the railyards after the shooting was carrying a Remington 870 shotgun.

footnotes .....

17. Sibley, Robert. "The Mysterious, Vanishing Rifle of the JFK Assassination," The Third Decade, v. 1, n. 6, September 1985, p. 16.

18. Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibit, vol. 15, p. 5.

19. Marsh, W. Anthony. "No Mentesana Rifle," The Assassination Chronicles, v. 2, n. 1, March 1996, p. 24.

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/guns_dp.html

Testimony Of Seymour Weitzman

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/history/wc_pe...t/Weitzman.html

A bit more on Weitzman...

THEORY: BARKER IN DALLAS ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963?

When Michael Canfield visited Dallas in April 1975 he interviewed Seymour Weitzman, who was in a home for aged veterans. Seymour Weitzman had a nervous breakdown in June 1972 - shortly after Watergate. He requested that his doctor, Charles Laburda, be present during the interview. Seymour Weitzman told Michael Canfield he had encountered a Secret Service Agent in the parking lot who produced credentials and told him everything was under control. He described the man as being of medium height, dark hair and wearing a light windbreaker. Michael Canfield showed him photographs of Watergate burglars STURGIS and BARKER, and asked him if either of these men resembled the "Secret Service Agent" he had encountered on November 22, 1963. He pointed to BERNARD BARKER. He told Michael Canfield: "I can't remember for sure, but it looked like him. Couldn't swear it was him though...anyway so many witnesses are dead...two Cubans once forced their way into my house and waited for me when I got home. I had to chase them out with my service revolver...I feared for my life." A recent JFK Records Collection Computer search revealed that one page of a Warren Commission document that dealt with Seymour Weitzman and the tramps was referred to another agency for review. [NARA 180-10095-10367; see 180-10095-10355] When the HSCA attempted to question Seymour Weitzman, Dr. Charles Laburda objected: "Since Mr. Weitzman was treated for emotional illness for many years...information sought from him should be extracted from his testimony and depositions made at that time [1963 to 1964]." [ltr. VA Laburda 6.1.78] Seymour Weitzman, born January 28, 1922, died in July 1985.

http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules2/nodulec19.htm

""Officer Seymour Weitzman, part of the Dallas police search team, later described the discovery of the rifle on the afternoon of November 22. He stated that it had been so well hidden under boxes of books that the officers stumbled over it many times before they found it. Officer Weitzmann, who had an engineering degree and also operated a sporting goods store, was recognized as an authority on weapons. Consequently, Dallas Homicide Chief Will Fritz, who was on the scene, asked him the make of the rifle. Weitzman identified it as a 7.65 Mauser, a highly accurate German-made weapon. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was also there and later recalled the word "Mauser" inscribed in the metal of the gun. And Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone executed a sworn affidavit in which he described the rifle as a Mauser. As late as midnight November 22, Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade told the media that the weapon found was a Mauser.

… when the smoke cleared and all the law enforcement authorities in Dallas had their stories duly in order, the official position was that the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository was the Mannlicher-Carcano, which allegedly was linked to Oswald under an alias, and not the Mauser, which disappeared forever shortly after it reached the hands of Captain Fritz.

But even this revision of the official story did not explain the third rifle. A film taken by Dallas Cinema Associates, an independent film company, showed a scene of the Book Depository shortly after the assassination. Police officers on the fire escape were bringing down a rifle from the roof above the sixth floor with the tender care you might give an infant. When the policemen reached the ground, a high-ranking officer held the rifle high for everyone to see. The camera zoomed in for a close-up. Beneath the picture was the legend, "The Assassin’s Rifle." When I saw the film, I noted that this rifle had no sight mounted on it. Thus it could not have been either the Carcano or the vanished Mauser, both of which had sights.

I was not surprised to find that this third rifle, like the Mauser, had disappeared. But its existence confirmed my hypothesis that Lee Oswald could not have killed John Kennedy as the American public had been told. Setting aside the evidence of two other weapons on the scene, the incredibly accurate shooting of an incredibly inaccurate rifle within an impossible time frame was merely the beginning of the feat we were asked to believe Oswald had accomplished.""

Jim Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins, pp. 113 - 115)

B.

[Bernice Moore]

Sorry i cannot get the link..do a video search youtube under WBAP: "Police found a British .303 Rifle" and it appears...thanks..

01:17 - 2 years ago youtube.com

WBAP newsman Tom Whelan reports that police found a "British 303" rifle in the TSBD. The amazing thing about this broadcast is that all of the minor details are noted with ... youtube.com

Watch this video on youtube.com

This video cannot be played here. Watch it on youtube.com.

Watch video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlCswKHMuE got it..i hope.b..

thanks gil jesus this one of his videos..

Edited November 24, 2009 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

NETWORK ANOMALIES OF 11/22/63 by Vince Palamara

The following is a detailed compendium of every interesting

bit of information gleaned from all of the AVAILABLE network film/

video footage. Compare this list to "official" history:

I. ABC/WFAA (Dallas)- 1) Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce Breakfast

Speech, morning of 11/22/63(carried live): just before JFK is

scheduled to come out of the pantry area, the announcer starts going

into detail about the 1901 assassination of President William McKinley

by Leon C zolgosz, who he describes as "a man with a long history of

mental illness"(?);

2) Love Field arrival, later in the morning of 11/22/63(carried live):

Bob Walker stresses the Secret Service's presence, alittle more than

necessary;

3) First reports immediately after the shooting: "some of the Secret

Service agents thought the gunfire was from an automatic weopon fired

from the right rear,PROBABLY FROM A GRASSY KNOLL WHERE POLICE RUSHED";

4) Jim (Ed) Haggerty (Ike's Press Secretary for 8 years, now an ABC

executive and commentator): "I had a hand in the planning of many

motorcades...I have seen many motorcades...(this assassination) is

a little different than any other- a rifle was used...h as to be a

planned conspiracy( as w/ Truman attempt)...First time in our history

where a rifle was used...whoever fired it...could handle a rifle...must

have been a carefully planned tragedy and conspiracy", to which Don Goddard

responded, "(This) adds on e to the case for conspiracy";

5) DPD outrider James Chaney: In an interview with Bill Lord, Chaney

explained that he was "riding on the right rear fender" of JFK's limo

during the shooting, and that "the President was struck in the face"

by the SECOND shot. Lord ended the interview by telling the audience

that "(Chaney) was so close his uniform was splattered with blood"!;

6) Dead agent "story"?: Eddie Barker of KRLD-TV said, "The word is that the

President was killed, one of his agents is dead, and Governor Conally was

wounded"; from Washington: "A Secret Service agent apparently was shot by one

of the assassin's bullets" ; Bill Lord: " did confirm the death of the

Secret Service agent...one of the Secret service agents was killed...Secret

Service usually walk beside the car "; again, from Washington: "One of the

Secret Service agents traveling with the President was kille d today";

Associated Press Wire (read over the air): " A Secret Service agent

and a Dallas policeman were shot and killed...some distance from where

the president was shot";

7) Aubrey Rike: " We picked up an epileptic [Jerry Belknap]...(the Secret

Service told us) we would have to removethe remains(of JFK)"-

8) Dennis McGuire(Rike's partner): " A Secret Service man told us to prepare

to load (the) body" and put JFK in the hearse. McGuire added that

"one of the Secret Service men- three of them- DROVE OFF AND LEFT MR.

O'NEAL AND THE REST OF US JUST STANDING THERE"! Compare this to

"official" history (Rike's later statements );

9) Funeral home detour?: Bob Clark-" The President's body (was) taken

to a Dallas funeral home"; Jay Watson- " (JFK's body) is being taken

to one of the funeral homes here in Dallas";

10) AFTER Lee Harvey Oswald's capture- formal statement read by Dallas

Mayor Earle Cabell:

"the irrational act of a single man...all possible security

precautions were taken (between Dallas Police and the Secret

Service)...this could only be the act of a deranged man"- I feel

better now that E arle set us straight(!);

11) DPD Chief Jesse Curry:

"We have heard he (Oswald) was PICKED UP BY A NEGRO IN A CAR"- this

was Roger Craig's story!!!;

12) ABC commentator Paul Goode( a most objective, unbiased, unopinionated

newsman): "100% airtight case... Oswald had a rather sickly smile on his

face...mounting pile of evidence against him...Chief Curry is very

encouraged by the preliminary test[?!]...silly smirk on his (Oswald's)

face...Communism... seems to be the most likely reason... he's refused to

confess... the case against him is airtight"- Case Closed!?;

13) Dr.Robert R. Shaw Press Conference (Connally's surgeon), 7:00 CST

11/22/63: "The bullet is in the leg...it hasn't been removed...it will

be removed before he goes to the recovery room"(?!)- what about CE399

(the stretcher bullet) that entered the record around FIVE hours earlier?;

14) Mary Moorman- first shot struck JFK;

15) Charles Brehm-"first shot hit him(JFK)";

16) The Newmans- the head shot came from the grassy knoll;

17) Jean Hill- heard 4 to 6 shots;

18) The rifle(which one?): ".25 caliber rifle"; "7.65 German Mauser"[said

three different times];" Argentine 6.5 Mauser"; " Argentine-made

rifle[said two different times]";

19) The President's head wound: shot in the RIGHT TEMPLE[said several

different times];

20) Dallas D.A. Henry Wade: "People CANNOT positively identify him

(oswald) there (in the window)"- too bad Wade would forget this

"official" statement in his later years, telling newsmen in the '90's

that upwards of 6 people did see Oswald in the window!;

21) BEFORE attempted transfer of Oswald: Bill Lord: "(It's) like an

armed camp...police officials are frankly worried...they don't want

anything to happen to Oswald"; Roger Sharpe: " All possible security

precautions have been taken...Bill Decker has done everything possible to

maintain strict security"; Lord again: " Extreme precautions have been

taken...police officials are worried...there are many weopons

visible...(the police are) ready to prevent anything they possibly can";

22) IMMEDIATELY after Ruby shot Oswald: Bob Walker: " probably more

security used for Oswald than for the President(?!)...most stringent

security precautions"- give me a break!;

23) Janet Adams Conforto a.k.a. JADA ( about Ruby): "He

disliked Bobby Kennedy...I don't think he loved Kennedy that

much"-hey, that goes against "official" history. Oh, well, at least

Jada didn't get in trouble for her little "mistake"-did she?;

24) those nasty rumors"- Bob Clark: " rumor that Oswald was in the

Carousel last week"; Jay Watson: " One of the workers at the Carousel

recognized Oswald in the audience"; Robert MacNeil: " A performer- a

memory expert- saw Oswald in Ruby's club"; Roger Sharpe: " Many, many

rumors...linking Ruby to Oswald"- so much so that the media reported

that the Dallas police were going on the "assumption" that Ruby and

Oswald DID know each other and that Ruby killed Oswald to shut him up;

25) Dallas' finest- Both Jim Leavelle and Patrick Dean recognized

Ruby, as they had known him long before 11/22/63;

26) C.A. Droby(a lawyer/friend of Ruby's): He "has been threatened"; As

Droby himself said on the air, " I received two calls that I would be the

next to die"-these calls came from " a man". Droby added: "I was standing

pretty close to the Sheriff's office" on 11/22/63;

27) 47 witnesses and counting- ABC's Bob Clark, who rode in the

motorcade, ALSO said the presidential limousine stopped during the

shooting...

II. NBC/WBAP-TV(Dallas)-

1) "automatic weopon", "British 303 rifle", "30-30 rifle", " 7.65

German Mauser", "British, German, (or) Japanese"-gee, everything BUT a

6.5 Italian Mannlicher Carcano!;

2) Dallas Police statement: "The most stringent security precautions in

the city's history"(?);

3) Capt. Will Fritz: "Oswald hasn't admitted to anything yet, but HE

LOOKS LIKE A GOOD SUSPECT";

4) JFK shot in right temple[said several times];

5) the "dead" agent continued;

6) Jean Hill (via a live phone hook-up)- 4 to 6 shots, came from a hill, etc.

7) the murder weopon- "No fingerprints on it-sent to FBI here in

Washington for analysis";

8) Robert MacNeil- NO mention of running into Oswald, although he DOES go

into detail about using the phone at the TSBD, among other things;

9) Donald Wayne House- the Fort Worth suspect: shown and discussed about

to a confused public- what about Oswald?;

10) Newsmen Frank McGee and Bill Ryan- JFK's wounds were in "the back of

the head and, incongrously, someway or another, in the front of the neck".

This dilemna was pondered over by Robert MacNeil, as well;

11) Houston motorcade clip from 11/21/63- shows JFK's limo surrounded by

approx. 18 motorcycles !

III. CBS/KRLD-TV(Dallas)-

1) Dan Rather explains it all for us- The fatal wound to JFK "entered

at the base of the throat and exited at the base of the neck on the

back side"- what?! This is almost as bad as Hoover's call to LBJ

describing the shooting sequence;

2) Immediately after Ruby shot Oswald- Newsman:" Everyone down here

thought (he) was a Secret Service agent"(?!).

There are other anomolies and items of interest on the

AVAILABLE video footage, but these are the most important. It would be

nice if we could obtain ALL of the video from the networks,

particularly CBS. Nevertheless, this network video survey is a vivid

reminder to us all that ,before we go believing what's in print, it

is a good idea to take a long hard look at what was said on the air

that day: 11/22/63.

Sources: "The Kennedy Tapes"(1983)- 14 hours of edited ABC footage

from 11/22 to 11/24/63; A&E's rebroadcast of the NBC tapes-6

hours(1988); 1988 special by Dan Rather and CBS , "Four Days in

November"- 2 hours of heavily edited footage

[Bernice Moore]

« on: Today at 03:36:00 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"...Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

"I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

Tom's story follows.....

Interview Dec. 16/63........

By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

..

"Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

few uniformed officers.

I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

today.

There are four different box positions.

There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

the crime lab lifted palm prints.

The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

later.

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

newsletter.

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

account of this in JFK Facts.

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

and call for the crime lab.. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

the live round.

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor.. This is

all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

the killing zone.....""

End of quote..

"Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."...He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

b..

[Robin Unger]

Thanks Bernice.

It looks like Lee Forman was the first to discover Skaggs in Mentesana.

Nice work Lee.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...0&hl=skaggs

[Joe Bauer]

On 11/24/2009 at 8:18 AM, Bernice Moore said:

ROBIN ...I AM THINKING THAT GRODEN'S MAUSER THEORY AS YOU CALL IT ...WAS ALSO SHARED BY SHAW AND OTHER EARLY RESEARCHERS...THEY REPORTED ON SUCH IN HIS BOOK COVER-UP..NOT POSITIVE...WOULD HAVE TO CHECK..BUT THE PHOTO SPOKEN OF WAS NOT THIS ONE..I BELIEVE IT IS WAS STATED AS BEING TAKEN OF AN OFFICER BRINGING IT DOWN HOLDING IT UP AS HE CARRIED IT DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE STAIRS AT THE SIDE OF THE TSBD..FROM THE ROOF......PLUS IT WAS I BELIEVE 3 DAYS OR LONGER BEFORE THE DPD AND AUTHOURITYS FINALLY CALLED IT A M/C THEY KEPT STATING ''SEE EARLY REPORTS''..IT WAS A MAUSER I BELIEVE WADE ALSO DID AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND TV REPORTS ..AS THE AUTHOURITIES KEPT REPORTING IT AS A MAUSER...AND SO THAT IS WHAT THEY CONTINUED TO REPORT.THANKS ..B...

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 11/24/2009 at 11:29 AM, Bernice Moore said:

THEORY: BARKER IN DALLAS ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963?

When Michael Canfield visited Dallas in April 1975 he interviewed Seymour Weitzman, who was in a home for aged veterans. Seymour Weitzman had a nervous breakdown in June 1972 - shortly after Watergate. He requested that his doctor, Charles Laburda, be present during the interview. Seymour Weitzman told Michael Canfield he had encountered a Secret Service Agent in the parking lot who produced credentials and told him everything was under control. He described the man as being of medium height, dark hair and wearing a light windbreaker. Michael Canfield showed him photographs of Watergate burglars STURGIS and BARKER, and asked him if either of these men resembled the "Secret Service Agent" he had encountered on November 22, 1963. He pointed to BERNARD BARKER. He told Michael Canfield: "I can't remember for sure, but it looked like him. Couldn't swear it was him though...anyway so many witnesses are dead...two Cubans once forced their way into my house and waited for me when I got home. I had to chase them out with my service revolver...I feared for my life." A recent JFK Records Collection Computer search revealed that one page of a Warren Commission document that dealt with Seymour Weitzman and the tramps was referred to another agency for review. [NARA 180-10095-10367; see 180-10095-10355] When the HSCA attempted to question Seymour Weitzman, Dr. Charles Laburda objected: "Since Mr. Weitzman was treated for emotional illness for many years...information sought from him should be extracted from his testimony and depositions made at that time [1963 to 1964]." [ltr. VA Laburda 6.1.78] Seymour Weitzman, born January 28, 1922, died in July 1985.

http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules2/nodulec19.htm

 

[Karl Kinaski]

I wonder if the Mentesana-film shotgun ( it lacks a scope) is the gun, brought down by officers from the roof (or seventh, or sixth floor) by the fire escape ladder on the eastside of the TSBD ... an action seen on a film by Jim Garrison. In his book ON THE TRAIL OF THE ASSASSINS Garrison says, that it was Richard Sprague, who showed him that film. Since the MENTESANA film shows two men on the fire escape latter, and  in another cut a group of men on the ground with a shotgun, I wonder if Garrison had seen the Mentesana film. A complete version of it, including the scene with the gun on the fire escape ladder ... obviously the Y-Tube- Mentesana film shows only some short cuts ... acc. to Garrison the film he saw ( with officers bringing down a gun on the fire escape ladder), was stored in the archive of the Western New England College, Springfield, Massachusetts. 

 

Another good point that the film seen by Garrison could have been a complete version of the Mentesana film is, that he says the gun he saw on film lacked a scope ... the Mentesana film gun lacks a scope ... 

Ernest Charles Mentesana died in 1969. He was 51. 

KK