The Elevator Escape Theory

[David Andrews]

Duke, I see, and take, all your logical points. There is some tendentious writing there, but also much ground for additional research. You, no doubt, know the Weston articles; between those efforts and this, there are a lot of useful beginnings that have not been further capitalized on. How I wish I had the resources and time to take on a TSBD book project.

Again - there are several suspicious characters at the TSBD other than LHO. We have to find out what puts LHO in among this crew, and who and what directed them. What, for rhetorical instance, was the reasion for Bonnie Ray Williams stating that he ate his lunch on the sixth floor all the way up to ten minutes before "Oswald" is alleged to have fired?

[Jim Feemster]

Hi Greg and all,

The shooters on the sixth floor IMO displayed false credentials to gain access to the floor. The lower level workers would have been impressed and done just what they were told to do. And under no circumstances were they to tell anyone of there presence at anytime now or in the future.

After the shooting was over no one really knew where the shots came from exactly for a time. So you don't have the workers running up to the police telling them of the " agents " they let upstairs as being suspects.

The villians could have rode the elevators down to ground level and walked out the west dock door after leaving there rifles on various floors. Anyone seeing them escape had already been threatened about telling of there presence. The workers wouldn't know they were escaping.

This is all conjecture on my part but I haven't heard any theories on how the shooters got into place.

P. S. On page 19 we see our old friend Harry Weatherford witnessing chicken bones and gun shells. Maybe he didn't shoot from atop the records building after all.

!

jim

.

[Duke Lane]

How I wish I had the resources and time to take on a TSBD book project.

Don't we all! I've been working on one for better than 10 years, and actually have a couple of hundred pages done.

What, for rhetorical instance, was the reasion for Bonnie Ray Williams stating that he ate his lunch on the sixth floor all the way up to ten minutes before "Oswald" is alleged to have fired?

Allow me to paint a theoretical picture here, and let's see if it makes any sense.

Let's say that BRW went upstairs after most or all of the others had gone outside; let's say that his "washing up" in the men's room was a little more - shall we say - involved, encompassing the several minutes after everyone else had washed up and eaten their lunches before going out. He emerges from the bathroom, doesn't see anyone, and - as he said - figured they'd gone upstairs, back to the floor they'd most recently been working on, to watch the parade, as he testified they'd discussed earlier.

It doesn't matter if that's exactly what he thought - we can never know - it is what he said he'd thought. So up he went.

Now let's say that when he was up there, one of two things happened: while sitting there eating his lunch, someone else came onto the sixth floor, passed the north end of the aisle where he was eating his lunch, and continued to the southeast window, less than 20 feet from where he was sitting, not entirely concealed by boxes, a fact confirmed by one of the crime scene photos taken across the floor from the southwest corner toward the southeast.

Whoever that was, they were carrying a rifle or rifles, maybe talking and carrying on like they didn't expect anyone was there. That could even have been the case if, say, someone like Jack Dougherty - who only had an alibi, given as an afterthought in his testimony, only from Danny Arce, an 18-year-old Mexican kid who'd eaten in the domino room and was supposedly going to be one of two people (the other being Billy Lovelady) who were going to meet BRW upstairs, and both of whom went outside instead - was waiting by the loading dock door near the west elevator for someone to slip in and directly into the elevator and thence upstairs.

Let's even say one of them bore a slight resemblance to Oswald.

No matter: BRW came up on the east elevator, which according to other testimony, was not noisy in its operation and was the only one of the two elevators workers might hear if they were listening for the boss to come up when the elevator operator threw the "hand pedal" to stop it when it got to its destination. Jack might not have heard BRW getting in, starting it, or ascending away from the first floor. Jack and his "friends," who weren't familiar with the building, didn't notice the east elevator missing from the first floor since it could be seen only through a grate that was at or above eye level. A good guess is that they were concentrating more on getting in and up without being seen than noticing every little detail like whether the other elevator had move or was still in place.

So they arrive on six, unconcerned about anyone being there - Jack, after all, had seen them all go outside ... "all," that is, except BRW, who was still in the bathroom, unbeknownst to Jack - and then, too late, suddenly noticed BRW sitting there with a sandwich half-raised to his open mouth, transfixed by the arrival of these strange men with rifles.

... Or, alternatively, the men already being upstairs by the window as BRW meandered over to the second set of windows and nonchalantly sat eating his lunch while the men did their best to keep quiet, hoping he'd go away, but ultimately having to either make themselves known to him or abort their mission.

Either way, we have BRW somewhere where he surely would have wished, under those circumstances, that he wasn't. We now have two or three Southern(?) white guys whose politics are such that they'd shoot a US President in broad daylight, faced, in Dallas, with a skinny Negro fellow who now knew who they were and would soon see why they were there.

Well, the motorcade hadn't arrived yet, so shooting BRW was out of the question if only because a gun going off in the area would attract attention to them, not an acceptable option prior to their target's arrival. BRW was safe, at least for a while; after the President had been shot, he'd have been done for, the first of "Oswald's" casualties (like Tippit supposedly was) shot to clear his way for escape.

Then came the noise of other men on the floor below. Perhaps they could hear footsteps; maybe they heard them talking, but surely someone was closer than anyone wanted them to be. They, too, had to be contained, especially since - if Junior Jarman's time estimate of arriving between 12:26 and 12:28 is correct, as can be supported by other evidence - there was no time left to try to shoo them back downstairs because the motorcade was already late and could arrive literally at any second.

Their arrival was perhaps literally a stay of execution for BRW, and for themselves as well since it may well have proven difficult for someone with only limited ammunition to shoot BRW and two other grown men while the shooter(s) were trying to escape: would that scenario have passed the "smell test" of Oswald being capable of doing all that with only four bullets, two or more of them being needed to fire at the motorcade?

So Jack escorts BRW downstairs to join and contain the other two men via the east elevator, which was then on the sixth floor. That puts both elevators on the fifth floor where Roy Truly later saw them, the east one being inoperable except by someone inside it, thus effectively trapping it on that floor. BRW is told to go over with the others at the front windows and to keep his mouth shut, while Jack opens the gate of the west elevator (Hank or Junior testified to having closed it so others would be able to use it if needed) causing it to be incapable of being called remotely.

BRW probably didn't keep his mouth shut; could you under similar circumstances? If all happened anything like I've described it, the man would have been understandably and quite palpably nervous, and spilled all to his likewise-dimunitive black friends. With the two elevators effectively "locked in place," Jack could also have meandered over, possibly with gun in hand but being "great big [and] husky," might well have intimidated the black men by sheer force of presence. And, of course, being white.

The black men's lives were spared by the simple logistics of the shooter(s) not having enough ammunition to kill three men who might've "tried to capture Oswald as he escaped" but were cut down as he succeeded in his desparate flight. Their escape was cut off most ostensibly by Jack positioning himself where he could prevent their being able to use either the elevators or the stairs whether by dint of his size or the threat of a weapon, or by Jack watching over them in closer proximity.

Having their lives spared hardly precludes their lives - or the safety and well-being of their families - being threatened, implicitly or explicitly, by Jack or the shooters during the brief wait for the motorcade go buy, or in the seconds or minutes between the shooting and their escape, should any of the three men say anything about seeing them.

When the gunfire erupted, Jack might have returned to the elevator/stairwell area, behind the "wall" of boxes and essentially out of sight, and thus invisible to them. That "wall" provided a rationale for "not seeing" Jack despite his admission of being there (which the boys might not even have realized he'd done), their run(?) to the west windows could have been to try to attract attention by leaning out or waving their hands (but not yelling!), and perhaps they were more stealthy about it, what with Jack and the shooter(s) still upstairs, and moved much slower than they'd testified, possibly accounting for the "delay" described by Richard Gilbride in TEET.

They perhaps didn't think they could describe their actions in that manner, for the question could then arise about who they were trying to avoid being seen and heard by. They were better off "never having seen" Jack than trying to remember to all say the same things about what they'd seen him doing and where, and explaining why they didn't say anything to him (even taunting him about why he was working during the lunch hour).

If they spoke up, they might've run the risk of themselves or their families getting hurt or killed. They certainly didn't want to volunteer information, but what were they to do if investigators in Dallas or Washington were to ask them direct, compelling questions?

They couldn't say anything, and they couldn't will investigators to probe them along lines that would force them to give full and complete answers about what and who they'd actually seen despite their "best efforts" at trying to conceal the facts that would have ultimately betrayed the shooters, hoping against hope that they'd be arrested and locked away, and they and their families would be safe.

But they - and BRW in particular - could drop enough hints that the investigators couldn't help but draw conclusions that would force them clear up the questions that the hints engendered.

Bonnie Ray estimated going upstairs at around 12:05, first having stayed there "only two or three minutes," just long enough to wolf down his sandwich and leave his trash behind, later admitting it could have been "10 to 12 minutes," and later as late as "12:20" or thereabouts, when Oswald - with or without quotes around his name - might well be expected to have been arriving, getting tired of hiding, his movements drawing attention to him, or even having no choice but to set up his shots in anticipation of the motorcade's 12:25 scheduled arrival.

If that wasn't enough, Junior Jarman testified to the time that he and Hank had gone upstairs - after hearing that the motorcade was on or approaching Main, which was 12:26, a notion corroborated by Roy Truly - and himself estimated that their arrival on the fifth floor was "12:26 or 12:28," scant minutes before the motorcade arrived, and to the fact - substantiated by BRW himself - that BRW joined them after they'd arrived at the front windows one to three minutes after the motorcade had been scheduled to pass, easily one to three minutes if not more after the shooter(s) had to be prepared to act and thus already set up to shoot.

If all those things are true, then there can be little if any doubt that BRW was well aware of the shooter(s), that Jack Dougherty couldn't have been one of them if he was also on five containing the men from running downstairs and outside to alert anyone to their presence (and if he wasn't, then someone had to be), and that all of them knew that whoever pulled the trigger, it wasn't Oswald.

And the most telling aspect of that is, if only the parts about the timing were true, and Jack is presumed to have been colluding with Oswald rather than someone else, since Oswald was dead by Monday and nobody had anything to fear from him, they could have and would have told investigators quite plainly that it was Oswald they'd seen upstairs doing the shooting.

If it had been Oswald, and Jack was not colluding with him, then Jack would have told the truth and said that Oswald practically ran him over when he was escaping down the stairwell.

And Jack, after hearing the "backfire" and hearing from Eddie Piper that the President had been shot, would have notified his superiors and police about what he'd seen and heard rather than to have blithely gone back to work "getting some stock" as if nothing had happened at all.

If it was Oswald, then it's inconceivable that neither BRW nor Jack Dougherty saw him, given the facts above; that neither of them did, even when they couldn't have been contradicted or harmed by Oswald, shows only that it wasn't Oswald and by no means that it was.

When Oswald and the need for the shooter to be four floors downstairs in time to meet up with Baker within limited time constraints are removed from that picture, and all of the other immediate post-assassination events are added back in, a new and clearer picture starts to emerge.

It's one that also explains why Bonnie Ray and the boys lied ... AND, I might as well add,

... I haven't heard any theories on how the shooters got into place.

... this was accomplished when everyone went outside and BRW was still in the bathroom "washing up," and after Danny Arce - the only person to have claimed to have seen Jack downstairs, eating with the men in the domino room - had also gone outside, but before Billy Lovelady had come back downstairs from the second floor to get a coke, Jack could simply have gone over to or toward the loading dock door by the west elevator and let the men in, got them onto the elevator, and ridden them up on the elevator to the sixth floor so he could "get some stock" before all of the above transpired.

It may also be noteworthy that the two men who'd supposedly planned on meeting BRW on six, didn't: Lovelady did go "upstairs," but only to the second floor, he says; was he instead turned back by Jack at the elevator? And Danny became Jack's sole alibi witness, at least to his ever having been downstairs among the rest of the labor crew during the first few minutes of the lunch hour.

Nobody commented - or was asked to comment - on this being the only time Jack didn't take the full lunch break available to him.

The escape is a touch more problematic, but only by the introduction of having seen Baker's white helmet while not seeing Roy Truly at the same time. If we'll recall from TEET, at least one of the three black men claims to have ridden the elevator down rather than having taken the stairs down after Baker & Truly had gone up on the east elevator: is it possible if not likely that the three men were also herded quietly onto the elevator to prevent them from alerting Baker & Truly, who were making a lot of racket coming up the stairs, as soon as the west elevator cleared the floor?

If so, it explains Truly's absence from their testimonies (if Baker was in the lead, his helmet might've been all that they'd seen before the top of the elevator descended below the level of the fifth floor), as well as why neither Baker nor Truly neither heard (because of the noise they were making on the stairwell) nor saw the elevator cables moving (the elevator stopped just one floor below them, which it could've done in just five of the seconds it took B&T to run up the double flight of stairs).

Am I missing anything? Can any of it be shown to be impossible?

[Greg Parker]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read Richard's opus. I think there is a consensus that, though we may not all agree on every point, there is much there to get us thinking and looking further (if one has the time and inclination).

Duke, for some reason, I don't seem to have your email address any more. If you want to email me about your 3 parter, please do. If you want it in the same format though, you will have to send each page as a jpeg as Richard did. I'm really not that technically inclined as to be able to convert files from one type to another - I get by with what I do on a wing and a prayer...

If anyone else has an essay gathering dust, I'd be interested in looking at it. I'll put any up that I think contain merit and furthers my own goals for the site.

[Robert Howard]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read Richard's opus. I think there is a consensus that, though we may not all agree on every point, there is much there to get us thinking and looking further (if one has the time and inclination).

Duke, for some reason, I don't seem to have your email address any more. If you want to email me about your 3 parter, please do. If you want it in the same format though, you will have to send each page as a jpeg as Richard did. I'm really not that technically inclined as to be able to convert files from one type to another - I get by with what I do on a wing and a prayer...

If anyone else has an essay gathering dust, I'd be interested in looking at it. I'll put any up that I think contain merit and furthers my own goals for the site.

The article is a tour de force.......while looking at some of the Warren Commission documents some time ago, I read all of hundreds of these documents......45 years after the fact I will share a couple of, as Gilbride has done, still unresolved points to ponder.......Read about James Frederick Murphy, and you will discover, something that still hasn't been even looked at.....

Roy Truly stated Oswald was at work at all times, in his shift at the TSBD, which tends to imply if he is telling the truth that the Oswald/Tippit B&B cafe meeting was possibly not Oswald.

Ruby knew somebody, besides Crafard, that also looked like Oswald.

Ruby knew this person way before the record indicates he met Crafard at the Texas State Fair Grounds, as far back as 1956....

Where the other tie-in overlooked is the "How Hollywood Makes Movies" crowd came to Big-D.....

Another clue is who left Dallas after Dealey Plaza went down, aka The Magicians leave town.....

The name Martin in the Kennedy Assassination, is another clue, as the fingerprints of intelligence were all over Oswald, so were his connections in New Orleans to people named Martin, check cashing, ONI individuals at Algiers, La.....

It would be a shame if the research community never got itself a genealogist...lol, the devil is in the details.

Example of the Martin angle below

Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswald.....

page 34 Mr Hank Farmer, 2862 Toronto Street ME1 7-1637......in care of Mrs. Dorothy Martin? he’s living with her, or uses her address as a means for people to contact him, I believe.

He is a service station attendant at the Brock Service Station 2200 West Singleton St. On November 22, 1963 at 12:15 PM, he arrived at the Dallas County Courthouse to pay taxes. He was not aware there was to be a Presidential motorcade. He noticed the crowd and heard someone say the President is coming. He waited in the park at the corner of Elm and Houston St

and watched the motorcade come west off Main St, then on to Houston St, and then West on Elm. He did not hear any shots???? Thats novel.....

I am not saying he was in on it, at all, but I do believe that the Warren Commission interview documents, are full of examples of individuals dissembling, but it cannot be proven for obvious reasons......

Check into these points raised and you will see there is ample evidence I am not blowing smoke.......

And as Jim Douglass, John Newman, and Larry Hancock's research occassionally bumps into Air Force Intelligence, that is a area that is worthy of more than a passing look....The false assassination plot in my estimation is a dead-end, simply by virtue of the fact that if there was such a facet to the assassination, Kennedy loyalists would have known and the whole issue would have unravelled at the very beginning, I have no idea why George M. Evica was so enamored by this allegation, but I will say that the chief proponent of the allegation wrote that the "Mishpucka" did it and that Audie Murphy and John Tower revealed the plot, if you believe that you will believe anything, although at the same time Meyer Lansky, is not the same thing as the Nation of Israel, if you catch my drift.....

Another interesting angle is the Bishop name in Ruby's address book, many researchers are aware of the Knight/Bishop dialectic and how it pertains to Antonio Veciana and David Atlee Phillips.

Below is an ersatz name check with regards to Ruby's "Bishop"......

BISHOP, - Sources: WC 19 (44); WC 22 (504)

Mary's Comments: Name and phone number found in Ruby's automobile 11/24/63. In 1963, number is listed to Mort Katz, MSW, Interurban Bldg., and Donald S. Lavigne, Interurban Bldg.

BISHOP, CURTIS FREEMAN Sources: WC 22 (834); CE 1419; CD 897 (6, 10); Six Seconds in Dallas, Thompson (255)

Mary's Comments: Union Terminal employee standing on top of Triple Underpass 11/22/63; witnessed assassination.

BISHOV, JAY (COULD THIS BE BISHOP, NOT BISHOV?)

Sources: WC 23, p. 375; CE 1767; CE 1773; CD 4, p. 652; CD 355, p. 76; CD 820 p. 1-4; CD 914, p. 4; HSCA Vol. V, pp. 190-2; HSCA Vol. IX, p. 174

Mary's Comments: Chicago attorney who sees Ruby at Tropicana Night Club in Havana, Cuba, over the Labor Day weekend 1959. Was with Sherwin Braun and Jack Marcus. [Most logical choice, since Ruby knew him, combined with WC habit of fudging names]

BISHOP, WILLIAM C. (CLARENCE ?) (COL.)

Sources: Madisonville Meteor, 7/6/92

Mary's Comments: DOB: 2/18/23; POB: Georgia; DOD: 7/2/92. Served in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. Paratrooper with Darby's First Rangers Battalion. Served 23 years in military intelligence. Was at Pearl Harbor. Prisoner of war during both WW II and Viet Nam. 33rd degree Mason, Shriner of Hellana Temple, Dallas. Survived by wife: Jean Gibbs Bishop of Madisonville, two daughters and sons-in-laws, Nita and Doran Walker of Cleburne and Susan and Pete Alanis of Houston; two sons, Robert Smith of Houston and Richard Smith and wife, Karen of Sugarland. Buried 7/5/92 in City Cemetery in Madisonville. Interviewed by Gary Shaw and Earl Golz in 1984. Told strange stories of involvement with CIA and involvement in murder of Trujillo. He claimed he was in Baker Hotel in Dallas as part of military intelligence 11/22/63. Claimed he was at Trade Mart, Dallas, checking identification. Claimed to have been in Africa. Claimed to have been involved in murders of James Meredith, Martin Luther King and Jimmy Hoffa. Although we have copies of Bishop's Military I.D., the government denies any knowledge of him. (See card on Bill Bishop)

BISHOP, WILLIAM C. "BILL" Sources: List of patrons at Sportsdrome Gun Range one of the days Oswald was allegedly there.

Mary's Comments: 1963 City Directory; Wm. C. Bishop, Bank Manager, Brook Mays Music, 2927 W. Colorado Blvd., Dallas, TX. 1966 City Directory; Wm. C. Bishop, Investments, 1st Natl. Bank Bldg., Dallas, TX (214) 748-3347; residence; 2927 W. Colorado (214) 337-7023. (See entry for Wm. C. Bishop)

Record: BISHOP, MAURICE (AKA MORRIS BISHOP, JOHN BISHOP, JIM BISHOP, (FNU) FIRGAULT)

Sources: MMF 2296 Mary's Comments: Re efforts of HSCA to obtain records concerning JFK assassination from DIA.

Record: BISHOP, KENNETH E. Sources: CD 106, p. 118; CD 355, p. 77; Mary's Comments:Does not know Ruby although occasionally went to Carousel.

Final Thoughts: The Bishop who lived in Garland seems to be portrayed as a wacko, by Dallas law enforcement individuals, and its hard to tell if he was what he was described as....someone who exaggerated the truth, or if he was the same person whom was interviewed by Gary Shaw and Earl Golz......I know Golz has passed on, is Gary Shaw still around?

The QJWIN/ZRRIFLE affair was tied to the release of Thomas Eli Davis III in Africa, I recently came across a document which references the Cuban Miro Cardona proceeding to the same locale.......interesting, I suppose it depends upon who you ask.....

Edited December 12, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read Richard's opus. I think there is a consensus that, though we may not all agree on every point, there is much there to get us thinking and looking further (if one has the time and inclination).

Duke, for some reason, I don't seem to have your email address any more. If you want to email me about your 3 parter, please do. If you want it in the same format though, you will have to send each page as a jpeg as Richard did. I'm really not that technically inclined as to be able to convert files from one type to another - I get by with what I do on a wing and a prayer...

If anyone else has an essay gathering dust, I'd be interested in looking at it. I'll put any up that I think contain merit and furthers my own goals for the site.

The article is a tour de force.......while looking at some of the Warren Commission documents some time ago, I read all of hundreds of these documents......45 years after the fact I will share a couple of, as Gilbride has done, still unresolved points to ponder.......Read about James Frederick Murphy, and you will discover, something that still hasn't been even looked at.....

Roy Truly stated Oswald was at work at all times, in his shift at the TSBD, which tends to imply if he is telling the truth that the Oswald/Tippit B&B cafe meeting was possibly not Oswald.

Ruby knew somebody, besides Crafard, that also looked like Oswald.

Ruby knew this person way before the record indicates he met Crafard at the Texas State Fair Grounds, as far back as 1956....

Where the other tie-in overlooked is the "How Hollywood Makes Movies" crowd came to Big-D.....

Another clue is who left Dallas after Dealey Plaza went down, aka The Magicians leave town.....

The name Martin in the Kennedy Assassination, is another clue, as the fingerprints of intelligence were all over Oswald, so were his connections in New Orleans to people named Martin, check cashing, ONI individuals at Algiers, La.....

It would be a shame if the research community never got itself a genealogist...lol, the devil is in the details.

Example of the Martin angle below

Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswald.....

page 34 Mr Hank Farmer, 2862 Toronto Street ME1 7-1637......in care of Mrs. Dorothy Martin? he’s living with her, or uses her address as a means for people to contact him, I believe.

He is a service station attendant at the Brock Service Station 2200 West Singleton St. On November 22, 1963 at 12:15 PM, he arrived at the Dallas County Courthouse to pay taxes. He was not aware there was to be a Presidential motorcade. He noticed the crowd and heard someone say the President is coming. He waited in the park at the corner of Elm and Houston St

and watched the motorcade come west off Main St, then on to Houston St, and then West on Elm. He did not hear any shots???? Thats novel.....

I am not saying he was in on it, at all, but I do believe that the Warren Commission interview documents, are full of examples of individuals dissembling, but it cannot be proven for obvious reasons......

Check into these points raised and you will see there is ample evidence I am not blowing smoke.......

And as Jim Douglass, John Newman, and Larry Hancock's research occassionally bumps into Air Force Intelligence, that is a area that is worthy of more than a passing look....The false assassination plot in my estimation is a dead-end, simply by virtue of the fact that if there was such a facet to the assassination, Kennedy loyalists would have known and the whole issue would have unravelled at the very beginning, I have no idea why George M. Evica was so enamored by this allegation, but I will say that the chief proponent of the allegation wrote that the "Mishpucka" did it and that Audie Murphy and John Tower revealed the plot, if you believe that you will believe anything, although at the same time Meyer Lansky, is not the same thing as the Nation of Israel, if you catch my drift.....

Another interesting angle is the Bishop name in Ruby's address book, many researchers are aware of the Knight/Bishop dialectic and how it pertains to Antonio Veciana and David Atlee Phillips.

Below is an ersatz name check with regards to Ruby's "Bishop"......

BISHOP, - Sources: WC 19 (44); WC 22 (504)

Mary's Comments: Name and phone number found in Ruby's automobile 11/24/63. In 1963, number is listed to Mort Katz, MSW, Interurban Bldg., and Donald S. Lavigne, Interurban Bldg.

BISHOP, CURTIS FREEMAN Sources: WC 22 (834); CE 1419; CD 897 (6, 10); Six Seconds in Dallas, Thompson (255)

Mary's Comments: Union Terminal employee standing on top of Triple Underpass 11/22/63; witnessed assassination.

BISHOV, JAY (COULD THIS BE BISHOP, NOT BISHOV?)

Sources: WC 23, p. 375; CE 1767; CE 1773; CD 4, p. 652; CD 355, p. 76; CD 820 p. 1-4; CD 914, p. 4; HSCA Vol. V, pp. 190-2; HSCA Vol. IX, p. 174

Mary's Comments: Chicago attorney who sees Ruby at Tropicana Night Club in Havana, Cuba, over the Labor Day weekend 1959. Was with Sherwin Braun and Jack Marcus. [Most logical choice, since Ruby knew him, combined with WC habit of fudging names]

BISHOP, WILLIAM C. (CLARENCE ?) (COL.)

Sources: Madisonville Meteor, 7/6/92

Mary's Comments: DOB: 2/18/23; POB: Georgia; DOD: 7/2/92. Served in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. Paratrooper with Darby's First Rangers Battalion. Served 23 years in military intelligence. Was at Pearl Harbor. Prisoner of war during both WW II and Viet Nam. 33rd degree Mason, Shriner of Hellana Temple, Dallas. Survived by wife: Jean Gibbs Bishop of Madisonville, two daughters and sons-in-laws, Nita and Doran Walker of Cleburne and Susan and Pete Alanis of Houston; two sons, Robert Smith of Houston and Richard Smith and wife, Karen of Sugarland. Buried 7/5/92 in City Cemetery in Madisonville. Interviewed by Gary Shaw and Earl Golz in 1984. Told strange stories of involvement with CIA and involvement in murder of Trujillo. He claimed he was in Baker Hotel in Dallas as part of military intelligence 11/22/63. Claimed he was at Trade Mart, Dallas, checking identification. Claimed to have been in Africa. Claimed to have been involved in murders of James Meredith, Martin Luther King and Jimmy Hoffa. Although we have copies of Bishop's Military I.D., the government denies any knowledge of him. (See card on Bill Bishop)

BISHOP, WILLIAM C. "BILL" Sources: List of patrons at Sportsdrome Gun Range one of the days Oswald was allegedly there.

Mary's Comments: 1963 City Directory; Wm. C. Bishop, Bank Manager, Brook Mays Music, 2927 W. Colorado Blvd., Dallas, TX. 1966 City Directory; Wm. C. Bishop, Investments, 1st Natl. Bank Bldg., Dallas, TX (214) 748-3347; residence; 2927 W. Colorado (214) 337-7023. (See entry for Wm. C. Bishop)

Record: BISHOP, MAURICE (AKA MORRIS BISHOP, JOHN BISHOP, JIM BISHOP, (FNU) FIRGAULT)

Sources: MMF 2296 Mary's Comments: Re efforts of HSCA to obtain records concerning JFK assassination from DIA.

Record: BISHOP, KENNETH E. Sources: CD 106, p. 118; CD 355, p. 77; Mary's Comments:Does not know Ruby although occasionally went to Carousel.

Final Thoughts: The Bishop who lived in Garland seems to be portrayed as a wacko, by Dallas law enforcement individuals, and its hard to tell if he was what he was described as....someone who exaggerated the truth, or if he was the same person whom was interviewed by Gary Shaw and Earl Golz......I know Golz has passed on, is Gary Shaw still around?

The QJWIN/ZRRIFLE affair was tied to the release of Thomas Eli Davis III in Africa, I recently came across a document which references the Cuban Miro Cardona proceeding to the same locale.......interesting, I suppose it depends upon who you ask.....

It took me a few days since you posted this, but I finally had an opportunity to read the article from start to finish.

Gilbride's article is the most significant piece I have read in years! And the only major work that is on a par with it, over the same time frame is Jim Douglass' JFK and the Unspeakable, in some ways Gilbride and Douglass mirror each other. Gilbride

does for the Depository riddle, what Douglass' does for the assassination as a whole.

My only lament is that it wasn't written a long time ago, as it could, and arguably should, serve as a catalyst for clearing the remaining trees from the forest.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Robert Howard

[Greg Parker]

It took me a few days since you posted this, but I finally had an opportunity to read the article from start to finish.

Gilbride's article is the most significant piece I have read in years! And the only major work that is on a par with it, over the same time frame is Jim Douglass' JFK and the Unspeakable, in some ways Gilbride and Douglass mirror each other. Gilbride

does for the Depository riddle, what Douglass' does for the assassination as a whole.

My only lament is that it wasn't written a long time ago, as it could, and arguably should, serve as a catalyst for clearing the remaining trees from the forest.

Thanks Robert! I'm sure Richard appreciates your support.

If you have time, you might want to also check out the debate on his work over at Lancer.

[William O'Neil]

It took me a few days since you posted this, but I finally had an opportunity to read the article from start to finish.

Gilbride's article is the most significant piece I have read in years! And the only major work that is on a par with it, over the same time frame is Jim Douglass' JFK and the Unspeakable, in some ways Gilbride and Douglass mirror each other. Gilbride

does for the Depository riddle, what Douglass' does for the assassination as a whole.

My only lament is that it wasn't written a long time ago, as it could, and arguably should, serve as a catalyst for clearing the remaining trees from the forest.

Thanks Robert! I'm sure Richard appreciates your support.

If you have time, you might want to also check out the debate on his work over at Lancer.

I'm exhausted after trying to absorb all this........could you please send the elevator back up?

-Bill

[Greg Parker]

Bill,

I hope you have your alibi worked out.

[William O'Neil]

Bill,

I hope you have your alibi worked out.

Uhhh, I forgot my cigs!... uh, yeah that's it.......

[William O'Neil]

Not to make light of the subject, but sometimes we need some levity.

Anyway, one thought comes to mind. If there was indeed talk among the guys about "going back up" to the 6th floor, to eat. Why would Oswald risk (Allegedly!) going back up nonetheless, to carry out his plan?

There are too many people unpredictably flying around, for Oswald to have had any feeling of even momentary security.

[Michael Clark]

On 12/9/2009 at 6:29 AM, Greg Parker said:

Highly recommended:

The Elevator Escape Theory

Can anyone restore this link? Whatever work this once pointed to is highly recommended in this thread.

[Guest]

ROKC does not recommend Richard Gilbride's work any more.