Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) Bob Harris, I've read your reasoning for a many years. Your dedication to this case is certainly not to be questioned. But Bob, are you alright - I've never seen you getting this personal or this seemingly angry before? The question is not why do I complain about people who deliberately lie and harass legitimate researchers. The question is why does everyone else remain silent? Robert, The topic is too subjective. I recommend watching two videos if you haven't already, for footage of the motorcade. 1. JFK: The Lost Tapes 2.JFK: 3 Shots That Changed America I could easily say JFK is wiping sweat from his face as the motorcade proceeds. Right or wrong? Who knows!!! chris Chris, I think you are misunderstanding my take on this particular issue. I stated, "As to whether he was pushing his hair back or checking that part of his head for damage, I don't think we have nearly enough detail to confirm that one way or the other.". We don't know why JFK raised his hand to his head then. It is his reactions in the Towner film which are much more definitive and unlike anything we have ever seen him do before. This is the presentation which explains that, And this is a closeup of JFK's face during the same time that Tina was capturing his reactions. Edited October 30, 2010 by Robert Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Robert, In regards to the Towner film. I have created a video looping back and forth for you. When JFK stops waving and starts to put his hand down, he also starts the closing of it. I believe this is pretty much normal for most people to do, especially when the elbow is more than likely supported by an object. In fact, sitting at my desk with my elbow on it, imitating a waving motion then terminating the wave, the most natural motion for me, is to start closing my wave into a gradual fist, while lowering it. I would say this is subjective at best. chris http://98.155.3.209:8400/99823/Towner.mov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Robert, In regards to the Towner film. I have created a video looping back and forth for you. When JFK stops waving and starts to put his hand down, he also starts the closing of it. I believe this is pretty much normal for most people to do, especially when the elbow is more than likely supported by an object. In fact, sitting at my desk with my elbow on it, imitating a waving motion then terminating the wave, the most natural motion for me, is to start closing my wave into a gradual fist, while lowering it. I would say this is subjective at best. chris http://98.155.3.209:8400/99823/Towner.mov Chris, fantastic stable section of the Towner film. What is your source of the best Towner frames? Thanks Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 So we are right back where we were when I first mentioned that nothing supported anything sinister about JFK's actions. No shot was reported heard when JFK rolled through the intersection at Houston and Elm - no sparks were seen hitting the street - JFK showed no concern of just being shot at, a bee stining him, or any other silly 'what-if' that has been tossed out there. Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 So we are right back where we were when I first mentioned that nothing supported anything sinister about JFK's actions. No shot was reported heard when JFK rolled through the intersection at Houston and Elm - no sparks were seen hitting the street - JFK showed no concern of just being shot at, a bee stining him, or any other silly 'what-if' that has been tossed out there. Bill Miller LOL!! If somebody farts, Bill Miller will think that's a refutation to my video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Robert, In regards to the Towner film. I have created a video looping back and forth for you. When JFK stops waving and starts to put his hand down, he also starts the closing of it. I believe this is pretty much normal for most people to do, especially when the elbow is more than likely supported by an object. In fact, sitting at my desk with my elbow on it, imitating a waving motion then terminating the wave, the most natural motion for me, is to start closing my wave into a gradual fist, while lowering it. I would say this is subjective at best. chris http://98.155.3.209:8400/99823/Towner.mov Chris, I believe there may be a couple things you are overlooking. First, notice that JFK begins to close his hand while it is still at its peak height. I can see that happening after his hand is brought down, but not in the midst of waving. More importantly, while it may be perfectly normal for you to ball your hand into a fist as you are waving, it was not at all normal for JFK. In fact, looking at him waving numerous times in the DCA (Dallas Cinema Associates) movies, I never see him ball his hand into a fist at any time - before, during or after waving. And then there is that falling to the left, which I seriously doubt is what you do. JFK's reactions during the Towner film were unique Chris and unlike anything he had ever done before. He was reacting to a gunshot then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Robert,, I also created an abbreviated version of Towner with the background stabilized, taking Tina's camera movement away. If interested, I suggest downloading this. And playing it frame by frame, continuously. It is about 30 megs in size. Martin, another one for you, as well as others. Pretty sure the footage is from " Beyond The Magic Bullet. chris http://98.155.3.209:8400/0C215/TOWNER.mov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) OK - but what about the dog that didn't bark in the night? William Greer complained about having to make an abrupt turn onto Elm, I think he said because he was momentarily confused by the proximity of the adjoining street that fronts the TSBD. (I have referred to this as the "short turn," because that's we call an abrupt turn in my neck of the woods.) So - Was there an abrupt turn? Did anyone else in the limo or following vehicles complain about Greer's turn?* Did the crowd react to or report an abrupt turn? If no to all above - Why the fabulated abrupt turn? Phenomenologically - in the study of why phenomena occur - why were we presented the tale of the abrupt turn? *I quite realize that people had other things on their minds momentarily. Edited October 30, 2010 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 So we are right back where we were when I first mentioned that nothing supported anything sinister about JFK's actions. No shot was reported heard when JFK rolled through the intersection at Houston and Elm - no sparks were seen hitting the street - JFK showed no concern of just being shot at, a bee stining him, or any other silly 'what-if' that has been tossed out there. Bill Miller Bill, Not sure Connally remembered everything in the correct sequence. The Chaney article is from the Houston Chronicle 11-24-63. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Robert, In regards to the Towner film. I have created a video looping back and forth for you. When JFK stops waving and starts to put his hand down, he also starts the closing of it. I believe this is pretty much normal for most people to do, especially when the elbow is more than likely supported by an object. In fact, sitting at my desk with my elbow on it, imitating a waving motion then terminating the wave, the most natural motion for me, is to start closing my wave into a gradual fist, while lowering it. I would say this is subjective at best. chris http://98.155.3.209:8400/99823/Towner.mov Chris, I believe there may be a couple things you are overlooking. First, notice that JFK begins to close his hand while it is still at its peak height. I can see that happening after his hand is brought down, but not in the midst of waving. More importantly, while it may be perfectly normal for you to ball your hand into a fist as you are waving, it was not at all normal for JFK. In fact, looking at him waving numerous times in the DCA (Dallas Cinema Associates) movies, I never see him ball his hand into a fist at any time - before, during or after waving. And then there is that falling to the left, which I seriously doubt is what you do. JFK's reactions during the Towner film were unique Chris and unlike anything he had ever done before. He was reacting to a gunshot then. Chris, please address the issues I raised. Why didn't JFK EVER ball his hand into a fist either during or after waving? And why did he begin to make that fist before he had even begun to lower his hand? Do you honestly believe that his reactions during the Towner film was like anything he had ever done before??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) Why didn't JFK EVER ball his hand into a fist either during or after waving? And why did he begin to make that fist before he had even begun to lower his hand? Do you honestly believe that his reactions during the Towner film was like anything he had ever done before??? Robert, Why don't you take 2 seconds and tell us everything you know about all the hand waves JFK had ever made. Like your previous response about a 'fart' ... this topic is completely asinine. You have taken a single wave and attempted to turn it into something that never was. No shots were heard during that turn - no sparks along the street during that turn - and nothing that you can point to that would support JFK being stressed during that turn. It must be a real hassle to remove a worthless allegation off of Youtube or why else would someone waste so much time holding onto an allegation that can't be defended. Bill Miller Edited October 31, 2010 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Why didn't JFK EVER ball his hand into a fist either during or after waving? And why did he begin to make that fist before he had even begun to lower his hand? Do you honestly believe that his reactions during the Towner film was like anything he had ever done before??? Robert, Why don't you take 2 seconds and tell us everything you know about all the hand waves JFK had ever made. Like your previous response about a 'fart' ... this topic is completely asinine. You have taken a single wave and attempted to turn it into something that never was. No shots were heard during that turn - no sparks along the street during that turn - and nothing that you can point to that would support JFK being stressed during that turn. It must be a real hassle to remove a worthless allegation off of Youtube or why else would someone waste so much time holding onto an allegation that can be defended. Bill Miller He waved 7 times in that animation Bill and he never once made a fist. Nor did he make a fist at any other time in all the DCA movies or Dealey Plaza films. And if he had, he certainly wouldn't have begun to make a fist before he even started to pull his hand down. As I said before, his reactions in the Towner film are unique and unlike anything he has ever been seen doing before. All the childish insults and name calling in the world is not going to change that. And hey! When are you going to gush all over duncan and tell him how he brilliantly proved me wrong? I mean, you won't let a minor detail like the total lack of a fist in his animation, prevent you from applauding his "fisting" video will you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Telling everybody what they see and don't see is just not gonna cut it Duncan He balled his hand into a fist and it doesn't matter how much you try to call it something else, because no matter what you call it, JFK NEVER did that before. His action was totally unique and unlike anything he has ever been known to do before. And his facial expression then was unlike anything I've ever see before and I'll bet you haven't either. And I just can't wait to hear your excuse for why he fell to his left. JFK was reacting to a gunshot then. You can hate me all you want to but you aren't going to change reality. You've been proven wrong every step of this way on this issue Duncan. And you need to stop insulting everyone's intelligence, trying to convince us that JFK was doing the same thing in your little videos, that he did in the Towner film. It isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 OK - but what about the dog that didn't bark in the night? William Greer complained about having to make an abrupt turn onto Elm, I think he said because he was momentarily confused by the proximity of the adjoining street that fronts the TSBD. (I have referred to this as the "short turn," because that's we call an abrupt turn in my neck of the woods.) So - Was there an abrupt turn? Did anyone else in the limo or following vehicles complain about Greer's turn?* Did the crowd react to or report an abrupt turn? If no to all above - Why the fabulated abrupt turn? Phenomenologically - in the study of why phenomena occur - why were we presented the tale of the abrupt turn? *I quite realize that people had other things on their minds momentarily. David, Roy Truly goes into specific detail about the wide turn. He was standing in front of the TSBD. Here is his testimony. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) Telling everybody what they see and don't see is just not gonna cut it Duncan Robert ... why not do something constructive and count the times you have told people what 'we' see and compare them to Duncan's ... I'm sure you have won that contest. He balled his hand into a fist and it doesn't matter how much you try to call it something else, because no matter what you call it, JFK NEVER did that before. His action was totally unique and unlike anything he has ever been known to do before. 'Never did that before' ... and you draw that from what ...... the few seconds of clips you have viewed? JFK was reacting to a gunshot then. You can hate me all you want to but you aren't going to change reality. Wow ... JFK must have been a real piece of work to react to a gun shot and not do a thing to protect himself or his wife beside him as he continued on smiling and waving as he waited for another shot to be fired. And no - I won't hate you. Instead I will feel sorry for you for not being capable of thinking more logically. Can I assume that it was that same remarkable thinking that came up with the 'Greer did it' scenario! Bill Miller Edited October 31, 2010 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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