Dealing with deniers

[Thomas Kroger]

Robert Morrow invited me to this forum, for which I'd like to publicly express my appreciation. For several weeks now, I've been involved in the Amazon discussion boards, dealing with the likes of S V Anderson, and his cronies, and I sense this is a far more hospitable environment in which to share views and research notes.

I see a clear tendency on the part of conspiracy deniers to overlook and ignore any evidence that has to do with motive. They have little or nothing to say about the principal organized crime figures in New Orleans and elsewhere in the U.S., and don't appreciate the proximity of Oswald's family with Carlos Marcello. I won't argue here, or anywhere else, that organized crime did the assassination without help from above - Garrison noted that it would have been impossible for the Mafia to orchestrate the cover-up phrase of the operation. It didn't have personnel in key positions, nor did it control the flow of information. McGeorge Bundy did that, from the White House Situation Room. The tie-in between organized crime and the intelligence community has been documented elsewhere, and needs no elaboration here. It is, to my way of thinking, self-evident that both groups were involved in JFK's death. There are currently details that I don't have a ready explanation for, but I expect that these will clear up with sufficient research and raising the proper questions. As of this writing, I am NOT convinced that Oswald was on the Sixth Floor at the time of the shooting; only ninty seconds after the event, he was observed in the lunch room on the second floor, drinking a Coke. He was quite unperturbed, according to the two men who saw him there. Not even out of breath. If three shots WERE in fact fired from the "sniper's nest," I therefore doubt it was Oswald who fired them. If I had just done such a thing, I can't imagine I'd be calm. To gain a more balanced picture of Oswald, I purchased a copy of Me and Lee by Judith Vary Baker, and will be reading it shortly.

I am currently reading Bloody Treason, and while I haven't finished it yet, my impression is that Twyman (sp?) picks up where David Lifton leaves off. It is completely legitimate to raise the issue of the chain of possession, simply because the observed wounds in Bethesda DON'T agree with what was observed in Dallas. In Bethesda, the wound is over twice as large, and appears to have involved modifications so as to obscure the entry and exit points. And there are witnesses - such as Paul O'Connor - who tell us that this is so.

This sort of thing isn't for the feint-hearted. It is ghoulish stuff, really. But it has to be brought up in any honest discussion or attempt to fix the blame where it belongs. It is probably too late for justice, but not for truth. That is my operating maxim, and I have about 30+ books to read. I expect to present my findings in the form of a manuscript, where it will appear in a rigorous format.

[Greg Burnham]

Welcome to the forum, Thomas. If this post is a fair sample of you will offer in the future, I look forward to reading your contributions.

[Thomas Kroger]

Thomas:

When you say S V Anderson, did you ever find out if there was such a person?

Robert Morrow has expressed the opinion that S V Anderson is actually David von Pein. I have no reason to doubt Robert's opinion: at this stage, he knows far more than I do, and has had more experience in dealing with the denier/damage control crowd. That is exactly how I'd characterize S V Anderson, regardless of who he actually is, because I've noticed a consistency in his approach. He isn't stupid, and I have no doubt he has an impressive data-base to work with. He purports to be an historian, and I took him to task for that several weeks ago, because he is constrained by his own methodology in any undertaking such as a criminal investigation. Historians are obsessed with footnotes, presentation, and documentation of claims. That is fine, but when he (S V Anderson) took me to task for showing concern for possible motivations for the crime, I recoiled. It IS true that police are under no obligation, strictly speaking, to establish motives for a crime, but as I remarked to S V Anderson, if we confine ourselves to the mere physics of a crime, what do we really have? I then remarked what I will now repeat: we have something that resembles a production of Shakespeare's Hamlet, without the Prince himself. What I was getting at then, as I am now, is that the thing we term "aboutness - what some philosophers call "intentionality," is the essential characteristic of the mental, as opposed to the mere physical. To ask "what was this crime about," is to look beyond the mere physical facts that surround it, and attempt to discern why it occurred. That is the only way we can come to terms with the man, or men, who orchestrated it, and really understand the horrific crime, in all its ramifications. I agree with Robert Morrow - I believe that it has all the characteristics of a coup d'etat. That is why I no longer trust the throngs of "officials" who make excuses for the "official" version of reality, and for those who impugn the motivations of researchers as "kooks" or "nuts," or anyone, for that matter, who resorts to such characterizations. They have already failed in the court of public opinion, since approximately 85% of the population agrees with us - that there was a conspiracy. But I want to give them even stronger reasons to believe as they do, and motivations to pursue a renewed investigation. I believe we've had illegal, unaccountable government ever since then - in a word - fascism. That is exactly what Jim Garrison said, and I can't see any good reason to disagree, however soul-sickening the conclusion. Reality stinks, and so does our current situation, and so-called "leadership."

Edited April 18, 2011 by Thomas Kroger

[David Andrews]

I then remarked what I will now repeat: we have something that resembles a production of Shakespeare's Hamlet, without the Prince himself.

We are each of us the prince. The readiness is all.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Thomas:

When you say S V Anderson, did you ever find out if there was such a person?

Robert Morrow has expressed the opinion that S V Anderson is actually David von Pein. I have no reason to doubt Robert's opinion: at this stage, he knows far more than I do, and has had more experience in dealing with the denier/damage control crowd....

Does it follow, then, that it should be easy for Mr. Morrow to explain how Von Pein got around the Amazon.com "Real name" set up?

S V Anderson's profile:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A17B33MH8HGT8V/ref=cm_aya_bb_pdp

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=cm_rn_bdg_help?ie=UTF8&nodeId=14279681&pop-up=1#RN

This customer created a Real Name and used a name from their credit card to help other customers identify them. This is a permanent badge.

Isn't it much more likely that S V Anderson is Scotty Anderson, aka Andersen, of Rigby, ID, an individual with too scant a footprint to merit at least a third thread on this forum centered around his relatively few Amazon.com book reviews?

http://www.google.com/search?q=sv+anderson&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

Amazon poster S.V. Anderson might be Vincent Bugliosi - The ...

Nov 5, 2010 ... Over at Amazon.com, there is a rude, annoying, disrespectful poster S.V. Anderson spreading a lot of lies, misinformation and disinformation ...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16904

Who is S V Anderson? - The Education Forum

Nov 18, 2010 ... Amazon poster Mr Anderson. An Educator, he claims. David ...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16956

Edited April 19, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Guest Robert Morrow]

S.V. Anderson is a jackass beyond belief over at Amazon. He is obviously there to disrupt and throw hand grenades into JFK discussions and PREVENT learning. His modus operandi is a nonstop conveyor belt of insults: "kooks, nuts, crazies, insane, paranoid, whacky" etc. That is also a signature of his many profiles that I detected/uncovered at Amazon.

Nasty discourse is also a long time signature of

_____ ___ ____ when he is not on Education Forum, and when he is in an unmoderated atmosphere. I emailed some samples of SV Anderson's rants to a longtime participant on JFK boards and this man said without hesitating "It's the Chicken Man ... _____ ___ ____ ." (I had originally thought it was the head village idiot himself Vincent Bugliosi, also known for calorie empty, insulting style and name calling.)

I do not think SV Anderson is a real person and is just a pseudonym for _____ ___ ____. And "_____ ___ ____" for all I know (or don't know) may just be a pseudonym for a disinformation artist on the JFK assassination on the internet. I think _____ ___ ___ has a MULTITUDE of fake profiles not just at Amazon, but scattered all over the internet, wherever the 1963 Coup d'Etat is discussed.

SV Anderson (_____ ___ ____ imo) and his slew of fake profiles have a slew of fake professions (historian, etc.) to match of perfectly with their fake lone nutter *theory.* It is like someone in strait jacket with multiple personalties engaging in animated *discussions* with ... himself. Himself: singular.

Is SV Anderson (also known as "Steve Anderson at another webpage for "Experts") a PAID disinformation artist? I don't know, but it would not surprise me.

Is _____ ___ ____ a PAID disinformation artist and a fake name for someone else? I.e. Someone PAID to disrupt and blow up learning on JFK discussion boards? It is certainly a question worth asking. I don't know the answer. But I would not be surprised.

I do think SV Anderson and _____ ___ ____ are the same person ... whoever that is.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Tom Scully]

Robert, you did not answer my question as to how the name S V Anderson could be an Amazon.com real name ID, given the qualifications for a real name ID described on Amazon.com.

You've posted _______ against ________ which you support with only your opinion, making them so far a ______ ______ _______ another forum member. *****Please edit __________ out of your last post immediately, or your post will be moderated.*****

Update:

Thank you, Robert. Look over your post, you missed one mention of the member you still need to edit out.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Greg Burnham]

Sheesh. Even though I have no love for some of those mentioned in this thread, still I hesitate to rely upon Morrow's "investigative skills" in

making a proper determination. Although it is possible that he has stumbled onto the truth in this instance, it is doubtful given his past record

of questionable research practices, i.e., recommending or dismissing books that he has not even read!

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Robert, you did not answer my question as to how the name S V Anderson could be an Amazon.com real name ID, given the qualifications for a real name ID described on Amazon.com.

You've posted accusations against David Von Pein which you support with only your opinion, making them so far a baseless attack against another forum member. *****Please edit accusations you cannot support out of your last post immediately, or your post will be moderated.*****

Amazon Real Name ID? How folks get around it? I don't know, if you find out please tell me. Then again I don't know how folks make drivers' licenses, or fake Super Bowl tickets or fake passports. Probably child's play for someone in intelligence or the mafia. I was listening to a Fletcher Prouty over at Black Op radio and he described a resort in Europe (Greece? maybe) where US intelligence had a whole community of people with 5 aliases EACH - that they had a fake life story from the time they were a kid (I'm sure with fake documents birth certificates, fake school records to match.) That is each agent with FIVE fake life stories (memorized) and I am sure the documents to match it.

In sum, getting around Amazon Real Name ID is probably a piece of cake for the motivated, even unskilled, person.

ALSO, I have received 3 different letters, all purporting to be different people, mailed to me from (postmarked from) Shreveport, LA, Las Vegas, NV, and Seattle, WA all claiming that Amazon's S.V. Anderson is some poor joker in Kentucky.

Of course it is a farce - and all the letters were mailed by the same person- and someone is playing games with me. I think I know who is mailing these letters to me.

As for who I think the nasty disinformation artist S.V. Anderson is, well, just read Thomas Kroger's posts: I confirm that is what I told him off the discussion board.

I have taken S.V. Anderson down 4 or 5 notches at Amazon. Basically, I have completely exposed him and his tactics to Amazon board community, and pretty much completely discredited him in the process. I really think he spends most of his time talking to his fake aliases, who unsurprisingly are the only ones agreeing with him! So I can understand why S.V. Anderson does not like me; it is like a bully has had free reign of the Amazon playground for a couple of years, then gets knocked on his fanny, humiliated, and exposed for the fraud he is.

Glad to do it.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[David G. Healy]

Does it follow, then, that it should be easy for Mr. Morrow to explain how Von Pein got around the Amazon.com "Real name" set up?

S V Anderson's profile:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A17B33MH8HGT8V/ref=cm_aya_bb_pdp

...

The Voice of Reason in a Sea of Insanity?

so this is S.V. Anderson, eh?

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Does it follow, then, that it should be easy for Mr. Morrow to explain how Von Pein got around the Amazon.com "Real name" set up?

S V Anderson's profile:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A17B33MH8HGT8V/ref=cm_aya_bb_pdp

...

The Voice of Reason in a Sea of Insanity?

so this is S.V. Anderson, eh?

In fact, after I blistered him a couple times over at Amazon, that is EXACTLY what S.V. Anderson looked like!

It is a fake profile, among MANY fake profiles of this joker at Amazon. He has at least 5-8 over there and seemingly can conjure one up, magician style, any time he wants. I am sure "SV Anderson" (or whatever his name of the day is) has them scattered all over the internet at countless places where the 1963 Coup d'Etat is discussed.

Now back to the key question - is this joker *SV Anderson fake name* a PAID internet disinformation artist in the JFK assassination? I don't know... but it would not surprise me. Or he could just be your generic nasty, lying kook with JFK disinfo as a hobby.

or both!!

Edited April 19, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Sheesh. Even though I have no love for some of those mentioned in this thread, still I hesitate to rely upon Morrow's "investigative skills" in

making a proper determination. Although it is possible that he has stumbled onto the truth in this instance, it is doubtful given his past record

of questionable research practices, i.e., recommending or dismissing books that he has not even read!

Hey, Greg, perhaps you would like to list your top 10-20 books folks should read to better understand the JFK assassination?:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16281

[Greg Burnham]

Sheesh. Even though I have no love for some of those mentioned in this thread, still I hesitate to rely upon Morrow's "investigative skills" in

making a proper determination. Although it is possible that he has stumbled onto the truth in this instance, it is doubtful given his past record

of questionable research practices, i.e., recommending or dismissing books that he has not even read!

Hey, Greg, perhaps you would like to list your top 10-20 books folks should read to better understand the JFK assassination?:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16281

No thanks. However, if I were to make such a list it surely would ONLY include books that I have read cover-to-cover!

[Pat Speer]

Robert, you did not answer my question as to how the name S V Anderson could be an Amazon.com real name ID, given the qualifications for a real name ID described on Amazon.com.

You've posted accusations against David Von Pein which you support with only your opinion, making them so far a baseless attack against another forum member. *****Please edit accusations you cannot support out of your last post immediately, or your post will be moderated.*****

Amazon Real Name ID? How folks get around it? I don't know, if you find out please tell me. Then again I don't know how folks make drivers' licenses, or fake Super Bowl tickets or fake passports. Probably child's play for someone in intelligence or the mafia. I was listening to a Fletcher Prouty over at Black Op radio and he described a resort in Europe (Greece? maybe) where US intelligence had a whole community of people with 5 aliases EACH - that they had a fake life story from the time they were a kid (I'm sure with fake documents birth certificates, fake school records to match.) That is each agent with FIVE fake life stories (memorized) and I am sure the documents to match it.

In sum, getting around Amazon Real Name ID is probably a piece of cake for the motivated, even unskilled, person.

ALSO, I have received 3 different letters, all purporting to be different people, mailed to me from (postmarked from) Shreveport, LA, Las Vegas, NV, and Seattle, WA all claiming that Amazon's S.V. Anderson is some poor joker in Kentucky.

Of course it is a farce - and all the letters were mailed by the same person- and someone is playing games with me. I think I know who is mailing these letters to me.

As for who I think the nasty disinformation artist S.V. Anderson is, well, just read Thomas Kroger's posts: I confirm that is what I told him off the discussion board.

I have taken S.V. Anderson down 4 or 5 notches at Amazon. Basically, I have completely exposed him and his tactics to Amazon board community, and pretty much completely discredited him in the process. I really think he spends most of his time talking to his fake aliases, who unsurprisingly are the only ones agreeing with him! So I can understand why S.V. Anderson does not like me; it is like a bully has had free reign of the Amazon playground for a couple of years, then gets knocked on his fanny, humiliated, and exposed for the fraud he is.

Glad to do it.

Robert, I've mentioned this before, but let me try again. I've been arguing with LNers on boards like this for over 7 years now, and I've encountered dozens of Bugliosi wanna-be's--LNers more interested in talking about the stupidity of CTs than the problems with the investigation of the assassination. They see this as an us against them situation. Some of them are, IMO, mentally ill, convinced not only that Oswald acted alone, but that JFK was a terrible president, and not worth killing.

David Von Pein is not one of those. As wrong about the case as he is at times, he has also provided a real service to assassinologists of all stripes via his youtube channel, which contains many hours of interesting news footage regarding the assassination. When one follows his movements, and reads his reviews over on Amazon, in fact, it's clear he's interested in making a name for himself, and becoming one of the most visible LNers.

As a result, I think it's ludicrous to think he would ever post anything substantive under another name. It just doesn't fly.

[Thomas Kroger]

Welcome to the forum, Thomas. If this post is a fair sample of you will offer in the future, I look forward to reading your contributions.

Thank you for you kind comments. I am in the process of re-entering this area of study after a long absence, and have about 35 new books to read. I just purchased a Kindle from Amazon, and believe it will make an excellent research tool. I expect to be posting a lot here in the future, and hope to make many new friends. I believe that this subject matter is CRITICAL for the future of our country, and ever since Obama took office, that conviction has only gotten stronger, and more urgent. In my view, the matter now transcends traditional politics, and the Left/Right paradigm. I sense that we have become a militarized, oligarchic state, much like Italy under Mussolini, and that our situation is actually desperate. Only the involvement of committed, free, and informed individuals can tilt the scales at this point. People are still hypnotized by sporting events and other distractions, although there are some hopeful signs that this is changing. Tom