Allen Dulles

[Chris Lightbown]

I’ve always been fascinated by the apparent paucity of evidence regarding Allen Dulles’ involvement in the assassination. The only exceptions I am aware of are:-

some very convincing CTKA work that laid out numerous links between James Angleton and Dulles. I’ve always believed Angleton to have been in the thick of things and I’ve read at least one piece by Jim DiEugenio or Lisa Pease – I stupidly didn’t keep a reference to the piece/s – which demonstrated that wherever Angleton went Dulles went, too.

some of the material about Dulles in Richard Bartholomew’s Rambler essays – Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used in the JFK Conspiracy. This was deep background stuff that tied Dulles in to innumerable characters in and around the assassination and made a strong circumstantial case for Dulles’ involvement.

But apart from that……? All references and leads appreciated. I’m sure I’ve missed many such.

On a specific point, can anybody tell me the name of the book which Dulles famously gave Warren Commission members at the start of the WC’s work? This was the book arguing that American assassins were invariably lone nutters.

Thanks!

[Guest Tom Scully]

, meet:

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Chris Lightbown]

, meet:

Well spotted – both books have their title in orange and rather a lot of blue in the background.

Now, Allen Dulles…….?

[Peter Fokes]

The Spartacus bio of Allen Dulles contains an error.

"Allen Dulles, the son of a Presbyterian minister, and the brother of John Foster Dulles , was born in Washington in 1893....."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdullesA.htm

Nope. Allen Dulles was born in Watertown, New York on April 7, 1893.

[David Josephs]

Yo Jim... 6 or 6000... what does it matter if a question is asked in good faith with a reasonable expectation of an answer?

I'd have to search, but are you aware of any works that detail Allen's activities from his firing to his inclusion on the WC?

Was he being watched by the FBI? Anyone else?

I am simply not that up on Allen's activities in this time period and would think if he was involved, it would be fairly easy to pinpoint suspicious activity...

Then again, if the JOKE is that he was on the WC and was able to remove evidence of ANY of his activities... then ok, funny joke.

But if there is a piece written on this time period - I would like to see it.

thanks

DJ

[Guest Tom Scully]

David, note the date at the top of the newspaper page....advance man?

There is more than one source for Dulles being in Dallas in November.

One is himself: "Dulles joked in private that the JFK conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known....he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder...."

A Certain Arrogance, p. 230

Jim, I wonder what Dulles meant to infer in his private joke, considering his presence in Dallas was public knowledge in Texas at the time he was there?

[Karl Kinaski]

David, note the date at the top of the newspaper page....advance man?

There is more than one source for Dulles being in Dallas in November.

One is himself: "Dulles joked in private that the JFK conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known....he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder...."

A Certain Arrogance, p. 230

Jim, I wonder what Dulles meant to infer in his private joke, considering his presence in Dallas was public knowledge in Texas at the time he was there?

Dulles not only was in Dallas by the end Okt. beginning Nov. 1963, he was in Huston and Fort Worth too. And he was there for nearly a week. (Acc. to his calendar...)

KK

Edited April 17, 2012 by Karl Kinaski

[Guest Robert Morrow]

James Angleton carried the ashes of Allen Dulles at his funeral in 1969.

"Dulles encouraged Angleton's career and allowed Angleton direct access to his office." [Tom Mangold, "Cold Warrior," p. 128 photo insert.]

Also, Fort Worth is where CIA David Atlee Phillips is from.

I think it is reasonable to think that Allen Dulles was coordinating with Lyndon Johnson, the Texas oil men, and the Texas CIA guys (David Atlee Phillips, GWH Bush ... maybe Charles Cabell) in the JFK assassination.

Remember Gen. Ed Lansdale was CIA and Air Force.

So was Charles Pearre Cabell (1903-1971): CIA and Air Force.

Mega Kennedy hater Gen. Curtis LeMay was Air Force.

There seems to a lot of LBJ, CIA and Air Force in the JFK assassination.

Col. Howard Burris was LBJ's top military attache and ... Air Force.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Was Allen Dulles modeling the JFK assassination on the the May 29, 1942, assassination of Prague SS chief Reinhard Heydrich?

It is a question worth asking.

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/17th_issue/rmblr96.fp.html

"Six months before Allen Dulles became the lover, spy master and fellow Hitler-assassination plotter of Ruth Forbes Paine's close friend Mary Bancroft, and discovered that he and Bancroft "had many mutual friends..." (Bancroft, Autobiography of a Spy, pp. 54-61, 129-31, 161-62), Dulles was likely paying attention to Operation Anthropoid: the May 29, 1942, assassination of Prague SS chief Reinhard Heydrich. That conspiracy had multiple similarities to the JFK assassination. They include: 1) a motorcade attack at a hairpin turn; 2) signals; 3) an open, virtually stopped vehicle; 4) two attacks, five seconds apart, the first inconclusive; and 5) "passers-by" directing the crowd in its confusion. And, as in Dallas, there were unanticipated mistakes in Prague.

As Alan Burgess wrote in his 1960 book, Seven Men at Daybreak, "The vital operational point was Heydrich's open car had to slow up here to negotiate the near-hairpin corner, and for perhaps five seconds it would provide an easy slow-moving target." And a report from the Special Operations Executive branch of the British Secret Intelligence Service reads: "The special training in the UK was based on a plan that the attack on Heydrich should be made when he was traveling by car from where he lived to his office in Prague or to any known appointment and that it must be carried out at a corner where the car would have to slow down." (Jan Wiener, The Assassination of Heydrich [New York: Grossman, 1969] pp. 86-90. Alan Burgess, Seven Men at Daybreak, [London: Evans Brothers Ltd., 1960] p. 142 ["near-hairpin corner"]. Callum MacDonald, The Killing of SS Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, [New York: The Free Press, 1989] p. 124 [sIS-SOE report].)

It is a chilling realization that one or both of those two sources (Burgess' book and SIS-SOE's report) were available to Kennedy's assassins during their own planning."

Edited April 18, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[David Josephs]

David:

There has been a lot written on this forum about Dulles.

I mean not just by me either. Most people think he is on the short list of suspects in this case.

Not just because of the WC, although there is a lot to talk about there.

But his actions in deceiving Kennedy about the Bay of Pigs. And then trying to cover this up at the hearings and also in the press.

This is something I am going to deal a lot with in the first part of my rewrite.

Since I think this is crucial to understanding the case.

Agree 100% Jim....

But jumping on the man - who if you notice has been a member a while - cause he only has a few posts and asks a decent enough question (albeit covered in the past) is indicative of the OTHER forums where freedom to express oneself is crushed from so many directions.

Your response just caught me by surprise I guess.... Dulles is an amazing subject and worthy of many discussions...

I hope I did not overreact here... a little sensitive from the other forums I'm sure.

DJ

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I have not read those books. I was simply quoting Richard Bartholomew.