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John Simkin

The Greatest Artist

26 posts in this topic

Have you read anything by Celine or Ezra Pound? If so what are your views on them and their work? I've read some of the latter's poems but was not especially impressed by them but I'm not much of a poetry person, never read anything by the former.Both however are regarded a genius. And held views that I and I assume find offensive.

No, but I am aware of Ezra Pound's fascist sympathies.

Do you think if you read any of their apolitical works their politics would effect your evaluation of them?

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Do you think Bob Marley was a Great Artist?

I knew the phrases were common in Reggae and Rastafarianism but never them with Marley. I actually prefer Cliff and Tosh.

Edited by Len Colby

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Do you think if you read any of their apolitical works their politics would effect your evaluation of them?

Like you I am not really a poetry person. Can you think of a novelist who promoted a right-wing view of society?

I first started reading novels when I was fifteen. My sister's new boyfriend had a cousin who worked for a company producing paperbacks. These books helped shape my political views: Ernest Raymond's "We the Accused" (capital punishment), Charles Beaumont's "The Outsider" (racial prejudice), Charles Israel's "The Mark" (reform of criminals), George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (political dictatorships) etc.

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I agree with Tosh. I never saw Marley, but I did see Tosh once in a very poor auditorium that bands always seemed to have difficulties with. Tosh on the other hand, hung mats all over, hemming the audience in and considering they had a day after flying in to set it up, mixing re the acoustics, the sound was perfect, which meant he could get his message across (which is what he and the early rastas were all about. Marley of course is untouchable but like Jimi can be eclipsed) which was much along the line of this:

Peter Tosh - Captured Live

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsPREccwSI

So, there is great skill

there is effectiveness

and of course there is a progressive activism

So, if one defines art and therefore great art, irrespective of a possible 'I know what I like' tainted judgment, as fulfilling this, I think that is sufficient to say Tosh was a Great Artist.

edittypo

Edited by John Dolva

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You gotta sit through 42 minutes of a remarkable performance to get to the really good bits.

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Do you think if you read any of their apolitical works their politics would effect your evaluation of them?

Like you I am not really a poetry person. Can you think of a novelist who promoted a right-wing view of society?

Celine and Ayn Rand, I haven't read her either. I'm a lot more tempted to read the the former than the latter. And though he was not a fascist F. Scott Fitzgerald was anti-Semitic. I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind right now.

I first started reading novels when I was fifteen. My sister's new boyfriend had a cousin who worked for a company producing paperbacks. These books helped shape my political views: Ernest Raymond's "We the Accused" (capital punishment), Charles Beaumont's "The Outsider" (racial prejudice), Charles Israel's "The Mark" (reform of criminals), George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (political dictatorships) etc.

Beaumont's main claim to fame was as the author of many classic Twilight Zone episodes including "the Howling Man", "Long Distance Call", "A Nice Place to Visit" etc. etc.I think I read somewhere he was Rod Serling's favorite author. Yeah "Animal Farm" incluenced me as did "1984", "Brave New World" and "The Jungle"

Edited by Len Colby

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Do you think if you read any of their apolitical works their politics would effect your evaluation of them?

Like you I am not really a poetry person. Can you think of a novelist who promoted a right-wing view of society?

Celine and Ayn Rand, I haven't read her either. I'm a lot more tempted to read the the former than the latter. And though he was not a fascist F. Scott Fitzgerald was anti-Semitic. I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind right now.

I first started reading novels when I was fifteen. My sister's new boyfriend had a cousin who worked for a company producing paperbacks. These books helped shape my political views: Ernest Raymond's "We the Accused" (capital punishment), Charles Beaumont's "The Outsider" (racial prejudice), Charles Israel's "The Mark" (reform of criminals), George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (political dictatorships) etc.

Beaumont's main claim to fame was as the author of many classic Twilight Zone episodes including "the Howling Man", "Long Distance Call", "A Nice Place to Visit" etc. etc.I think I read somewhere he was Rod Serling's favorite author. Yeah "Animal Farm" incluenced me as did "1984", "Brave New World" and "The Jungle"

Another book I read during this period was Donald Chase Downes's Orders to Kill (later made into a great film). Downes worked for British Security Coordination (BSC), Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during the war.

His story, Orders to Kill, was co-written by Paul Dehn, a former member of the BSC. The story tells of a young American pilot, Gene Summers, who is selected to go on a mission to Nazi-occupied Paris to kill Marcel Lafitte, a man believed to be a double agent working in the French Resistance.

When Summers arrives in Paris he meets his contact, Leonie, who provides information about the man he is to assassinate. Summers befriends Lafitte and the more he finds out about him, the more doubts he has of his guilt. Summers tells Leonie that he does not think Lafitte is a traitor. She becomes very angry, pointing out that Summers has dropped hundreds of bombs on people while he was a pilot. Summers replies that there is a difference between killing a lot of people and one person up close.

Summers eventually agrees to murder Lafitte. After trying to kill him with a blow to the head he is forced to resort to stabbing him with a pair of scissors. He decides to steal Lafitte's money in order to make it look like a robbery. Summers returns to Leonie but discovers she has been captured by the Gestapo. He remains in Paris and after the liberation of the city by the Allies he is told that Lafitte was not a traitor and was really a loyal member of the resistance. Summers seeks out Lafitte's wife and daughter. He tells her that her husband was one of their best agents in the resistance and gives her the money he stole from their home.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPYdownesD.htm

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Sounds like an interesting book, I didn't read the end of your post because I want the end of the book to be a surprise.

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Sounds like an interesting book, I didn't read the end of your post because I want the end of the book to be a surprise.

You can buy the book here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Donald+Downes+Orders+to+Kill&rh=n%3A266239%2Ck%3ADonald+Downes+Orders+to+Kill&ajr=0

The award winning film is available from here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias%3Ddvd&field-keywords=orders+to+kill&sprefix=Orders+to+Kill%2Cstripbooks%2C288

His co-author, Paul Dehn, who also worked for British Security Coordination (BSC), went on to write the screenplay for the James Bond movie, Goldfinger. Ian Fleming was also a member of BSC. Dehn also wrote the screenplay for The Spy Who Came in From the Cold.

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:(

I was hoping to be able get a Kindle copy of the book and DVD seems to be Zone 2 (Europe) only. Perhaps I'll buy a hard copy of the former next time I'm stateside.

Edited by Len Colby

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Another book I read during this period was Donald Chase Downes's Orders to Kill (later made into a great film). Downes worked for British Security Coordination (BSC), Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during the war.

His story, Orders to Kill, was co-written by Paul Dehn, a former member of the BSC. The story tells of a young American pilot, Gene Summers, who is selected to go on a mission to Nazi-occupied Paris to kill Marcel Lafitte, a man believed to be a double agent working in the French Resistance.

When Summers arrives in Paris he meets his contact, Leonie, who provides information about the man he is to assassinate. Summers befriends Lafitte and the more he finds out about him, the more doubts he has of his guilt. Summers tells Leonie that he does not think Lafitte is a traitor. She becomes very angry, pointing out that Summers has dropped hundreds of bombs on people while he was a pilot. Summers replies that there is a difference between killing a lot of people and one person up close.

Summers eventually agrees to murder Lafitte. After trying to kill him with a blow to the head he is forced to resort to stabbing him with a pair of scissors. He decides to steal Lafitte's money in order to make it look like a robbery. Summers returns to Leonie but discovers she has been captured by the Gestapo. He remains in Paris and after the liberation of the city by the Allies he is told that Lafitte was not a traitor and was really a loyal member of the resistance. Summers seeks out Lafitte's wife and daughter. He tells her that her husband was one of their best agents in the resistance and gives her the money he stole from their home.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPYdownesD.htm

I watched the film last night. I was very impressed. One of the few films that I have seen that explores the morality of war. There is a great scene where the hero is taught the best way of killing double-agents by the British SIS. The dialogue on the morality of killing in war is fantastic. (It won the British screenplay award that year.) Downes was in charge of assassinations of Nazi agents in France and claims it was based on a true story.

When Hoover discovered that Downs was working for the British and carrying out dirty tricks against the American First Committee he tried to get him sacked from the SOS. William Donovan refused because by this time he was too important to the organisation.

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