The Danger of Conspiracy Theories

[John Simkin]

David Corn, the author of Blonde Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA's Crusades (1994) has argued "out-there conspiracy theorizing serves the interests of the powers-that-be by making their real transgressions seem tame in comparison." Do you agree?

[Mike Rago]

I think the David Corn article you are referring to is

http://www.alternet....theories_go_bad

Theories that the U.S. government aided or engineered the 9/11 attacks aren't just horribly misguided -- they distract from the nefarious deeds our leaders actually do perpetrate

Please stop sending me those emails. You know who are. And you know what emails I mean ... Okay, I'll spell it out -- those forwarded emails suggesting, or flat-out stating, the CIA and the U.S. government were somehow involved in the horrific September 11 attacks.

I might agree with him in that theories that the CIA killed JFK do more harm than good becaue they distract from those actually responsible.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Mike Rago

[John Simkin]

It was in fact a comment he made about Michael C. Ruppert but I agree he is making the same point in your quote on 9/11.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Yes, we must all keep open minds and not exhibit the narrow minded tone on exhibit here:

..

psheaAugust 30, 2012 5:52 AM

How refreshing to read these comments. I think we are finally reaching breaking point regarding the realisation of the actual fakeness levels of everything 9/11.(but unfortunately I fear it may be too late).

Jim has been informed on numerous occasions (by myself, here, and others elsewhere) as to the fake nature of ALL collapse video but he still insists on shows like todays. He even had a guest, Evelien Gilbert, detail the hows and the whos in their recent 'Storyboarding 9/11' (even though she herself failed to carry the implications of her understanding through to their most logical and supported conclusions).

Jim also has been informed on numerous occasions as to the fake nature of the vast majority of victims, but he still insists, along with the likes of Kevin Barrett, that 3000 prople really died that day.

I am afraid now that I am beginning to believe that Jim is not as genuine as he comes across, and that something is seriously wrong with his whole picture - I am sorry to have to say this but what other conclusion can I come too......

Jim FetzerSeptember 2, 2012 6:10 AM

"Jim has been informed"! What does that mean? Someone sent me THEIR OPINION about something far fetched? Do I have to point out that THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE! And it is a nice example of begging the question by assuming that you are right and I wrong while committing an ad hominem that functions as a smear. Give this some thought, please!

"God help us all", indeed! So now not only is all of the video of the Twin Towers destruction fake but the death of JFK is also fake and I am supposed to be some kind of "useful idiot" for not believing this drivel? I am sorry, but comments like these are beyond belief. One of us may be an idiot, but it ain't me. I can't believe I am reading rubbish like this here.

I collaborated with one of the physicians who was present when JFK was treated in Trauma Room #1, Charles Crenshaw, M.D., who was the last physician to view the body as it was being wrapped in sheets and placed into the bronze casket. He closed JFK's eyes. We know the man was murdered and we know how it was done. Does anyone believe this guy?

I am sorry to be so blunt, but this kind of garbage belongs in a trash bin, not here masquerading as serious comments on one of my interviews. That someone should write this stuff at this late date is simply dumbfounding to me. I really don't have time for non-sense. I will consider inviting Simon onto the show, however, so we can discuss his research. I think the destruction of the Twin Towers was virtually impossible to fake, but I will be fascinating to learn why he thinks so.

If you dance to the music, don't you know. You've got to pay to the piper. Ask your mama!

[Bernice Moore]

When i first began on the web, and got into the research community. i was taught, that whatever, if there was no evidence, but more important documentation,otherwise proof, that i was to evade whatever it referred to as i was wasting my time.....i have tried to stick to those guns...which at times has bugged some, but i still believe if you do not have such, then you cannot positively prove your point, and it is therefore only a guess, an opinion..which does not stand up to scutiny......imo...thanks..b

[Mark Gorton]

Unfortunately, I have found almost the exact opposite to be true. The secret conspiracies that have been perpetrated by "the cabal", "the secret government", "the power control group", call then what you will, are much more horrific and shocking than my worst imagination of what was possible. Indeed, the actual history of the United States in the last 60 years if filled with so many nefarious plots that the truth seems unreal to most people. I have always thought of myself as a skeptical person who did not trust government. But it turns out that I was not nearly skeptical enough. The level of criminality and immorality of top government officials continues to shock me. What started as curiousity about the Kennedy assassination has expanded and expanded as I have followed the threads of corruption through different levels of government and through time.

This summer I read "Defrauding America" by Rodney Stich. I highly, highly, highly recommend this book. It is filled with one mind blowing example of corruption after another. If only 1/4 of what is in "Defrauding America" is true, it would blow most people's minds. If I had read "Defrauding America" 5 years ago, I might have dismissed its stories as implausible, but the more I learn, the more these stories have proven to be true and consistent with other historical threads. It seems unreasonable to think that anyone would pay the Iranians money and ship the Iranians arms to hold the hostages longer. I have never met anyone that evil and immoral. But it does seem like George H.W. Bush did exactly that. A good part of the reason that the governing criminal class is able to get away with such terrible crimes is that most regular people could not imaging anyone being so evil.

In fact, the David Corn quote about 9/11 is a very good example of the unthinkably evil act being self protecting. For 11 years after the 9/11 attacks, I, like most Americans, believed I knew most of the story. But as I learned of the long, deep and evil criminal history of the Bush family, the thought that the 9/11 attacks might be a false flag attack began to seem more plausible to me. So I have been reading up on that topic, and I am now of the opinion the 9/11 attacks were a false flag attack.

I agree that Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. But there is now good evidence that the Saudi royal family and Saudi intelligence actively supported Al Qaeda. The Bush family, both George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush are very close to the Saudi royal family and Saudi intelligence. It would have been bad form and rude of the Saudi government to support the 9/11 attacks without the approval of their good friends the Bushes. The book "The Terror Timeline" does a very good job documenting the systematic dismantling of the US anti-terror defenses in order to allow the attacks to happen. Add in a few details like the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were admitted to the US under a special CIA visas for terrorists program, and the weight of the evidence starts to really pile up. I still have to read a few more books before I feel comfortable with this subject, but the I have uncovered a great deal of evidence that corroborates the false flag theory.

I still think UFO theories are out there, but I do not dismiss out of hand nearly as much as I would have a few years ago.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Rodney Stich is a legend and I consider him very reliable.

CIA Pegaus agent Trenton Parker told Rodney Stich in 1993 that FBI Hoover’s office had been taped and identified at least 5 conspirators: Lyndon Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, Allen Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller,

& George Herbert Walker Bush

From Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition 1998 p. 638-639]:

“The Role of deep-cover CIA officer, Trenton Parker, has been described in earlier pages, and his function in the CIA's counter-intelligence unit, Pegasus. Parker had stated to me earlier that a CIA faction was responsible for the murder of JFK … During an August 21, 1993, conversation, in response to my questions, Parker said that his Pegasus group had tape recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy. I asked him, "What group were these tapes identifying?" Parker replied: "Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, Johnson of Texas, George Bush, and J. Edgar Hoover." I asked, "What was the nature of the conversation on these tapes?"

I don't have the tapes now, because all the tape recordings were turned over to [Congressman] Larry McDonald. But I listened to the tape recordings and there were conversations between Rockefeller, [J. Edgar] Hoover, where [Nelson] Rockefeller asks, "Are we going to have any problems?" And he said, "No, we aren't going to have any problems. I checked with Dulles. If they do their job we'll do our job." There are a whole bunch of tapes, because Hoover didn't realize that his phone has been tapped. Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition p. 638-639]

Stich has another classic: "Drugging America: A Trojan Horse"

http://www.amazon.com/Drugging-America-Trojan-Horse-ebook/dp/B001LRQ686/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349384009&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=rodney+stick+drugging+of+america

[Mike Rago]

When i first began on the web, and got into the research community. i was taught, that whatever, if there was no evidence, but more important documentation,otherwise proof, that i was to evade whatever it referred to as i was wasting my time.....i have tried to stick to those guns...which at times has bugged some, but i still believe if you do not have such, then you cannot positively prove your point, and it is therefore only a guess, an opinion..which does not stand up to scutiny......imo...thanks..b

Who taught you that?

What do you mean there is evidence but no documentation?

Where does photographic evidence fit into your research?

[David Josephs]

Unfortunately, I have found almost the exact opposite to be true. The secret conspiracies that have been perpetrated by "the cabal", "the secret government", "the power control group", call then what you will, are much more horrific and shocking than my worst imagination of what was possible. Indeed, the actual history of the United States in the last 60 years if filled with so many nefarious plots that the truth seems unreal to most people. I have always thought of myself as a skeptical person who did not trust government. But it turns out that I was not nearly skeptical enough. The level of criminality and immorality of top government officials continues to shock me. What started as curiousity about the Kennedy assassination has expanded and expanded as I have followed the threads of corruption through different levels of government and through time.

This summer I read "Defrauding America" by Rodney Stich. I highly, highly, highly recommend this book. It is filled with one mind blowing example of corruption after another. If only 1/4 of what is in "Defrauding America" is true, it would blow most people's minds. If I had read "Defrauding America" 5 years ago, I might have dismissed its stories as implausible, but the more I learn, the more these stories have proven to be true and consistent with other historical threads. It seems unreasonable to think that anyone would pay the Iranians money and ship the Iranians arms to hold the hostages longer. I have never met anyone that evil and immoral. But it does seem like George H.W. Bush did exactly that. A good part of the reason that the governing criminal class is able to get away with such terrible crimes is that most regular people could not imaging anyone being so evil.

In fact, the David Corn quote about 9/11 is a very good example of the unthinkably evil act being self protecting. For 11 years after the 9/11 attacks, I, like most Americans, believed I knew most of the story. But as I learned of the long, deep and evil criminal history of the Bush family, the thought that the 9/11 attacks might be a false flag attack began to seem more plausible to me. So I have been reading up on that topic, and I am now of the opinion the 9/11 attacks were a false flag attack.

I agree that Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. But there is now good evidence that the Saudi royal family and Saudi intelligence actively supported Al Qaeda. The Bush family, both George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush are very close to the Saudi royal family and Saudi intelligence. It would have been bad form and rude of the Saudi government to support the 9/11 attacks without the approval of their good friends the Bushes. The book "The Terror Timeline" does a very good job documenting the systematic dismantling of the US anti-terror defenses in order to allow the attacks to happen. Add in a few details like the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were admitted to the US under a special CIA visas for terrorists program, and the weight of the evidence starts to really pile up. I still have to read a few more books before I feel comfortable with this subject, but the I have uncovered a great deal of evidence that corroborates the false flag theory.

I still think UFO theories are out there, but I do not dismiss out of hand nearly as much as I would have a few years ago.

Hi Mark... nicely put. Yet I must disagree with your Osama conclusion... it was the Pakistani Army who supported the terrorists, MOST of them were Saudis, the list of hijackers is woefully incorrect and NEVER been updated and finally, the FBI NEVER LISTED 9/11 when describing and listing Osama's crimes.... like Saddam the US MILITARY created Osama to fight Russia while giving unbelieveable power to the local drug lords in Afghanistan.... why are we STILL in Afghanistan? one word - HEROIN.

didn't you know that Rummy, Chaney and Dub'ya KNEW that Saddam pulled it off....? How long before we were invading Iraq? If you'd liek the complete low-down on 9/11

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline Take your time and read ALL OF IT... Talk about blow your mind - the Able Danger stuff alone is amazing.

Peace

DJ

"Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq," Clarke said on Sunday's 60 Minutes. "I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.'

==========

Two of the most amazing statements that I keep near and dear and their source:

U.S. Foreign Policy -- A Study in Hypocrisy

By William Blum

My experience in writing and speaking about what U.S. foreign policy has really done in

and to the world is that it’s often like telling people that I was abducted by aliens, except

that many of those people would sooner believe the abduction story.

For those of you who are not heavily into alien abduction stories, let me try to set the

proper atmosphere by mentioning two of the laws of politics which came out of the

Watergate scandal of the 1970s. (It doesn’t matter if you don’t know much about

Watergate; the laws are still understandable.)

The First Watergate Law of American Politics states: “No matter how paranoid you are, what the government is actually doing is worse than you imagine.”

The Second Watergate Law states: “Don’t believe anything until it’s been officially denied."

Both laws are still on the books. Keep them handy in your head.

i.e.

=========

Condoleezza Rice: But I don’t remember the al‐Qaida cells as being something that we were told we needed to do something about.

Richard Ben-Veniste: Isn't it a fact, Dr. Rice, that the August 6 PDB [Presidential Daily Briefing] warned against possible attacks in this country? And I ask you whether you recall the title of that PDB?

Condoleezza Rice: I believe the title was, Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.

"I don't think that anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center,

take another one and slam it into the Pentagon, that they would try to use an airplane as a missile"

And the military had conducted numerous drills of planes crashing into the Pentagon. For example, see this official military website showing a military drill conducted in 2000 using miniatures; this article concerning a May 2001 exercise of a plane crashing into the Pentagon (see also this article and this one); and this article about yet another drill of a plane hitting the Pentagon from August 2001.

and more examples closer to home...

WCR conclusions 9-12

The American Laws in Action over 10 years BEFORE they were realized

9. The Commission has found no evidence that either Lee Harvey

Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign,

to assassinate President Kennedy (official denial)

10. In its entire investigation the Commission has found no evidence

of conspiracy, subversion, or disloyalty to the U.S. Government by

any Federal, State, or local official (official denial)

11. On the basis of the evidence before the Commission it concludes

that. Oswald acted alone (official denial - no one else involved)

AND FINALLY - THE SECRET SERVICE DID NOTHING WRONG

12. (f) Within these limitations, however, the Commission finds

that the (SS) agents most immediately responsible for the President’s

safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired from the TSBD. (official denial - the SS was NOT responsible for the lack of JFK's safety)

and here they are... those MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR JFK's SAFETY: One isn't paying attention, the other is watching it happen....

[Bernice Moore]

When i first began on the web, and got into the research community. i was taught, that whatever, if there was no evidence, but more important documentation,otherwise proof, that i was to evade whatever it referred to as i was wasting my time.....i have tried to stick to those guns...which at times has bugged some, but i still believe if you do not have such, then you cannot positively prove your point, and it is therefore only a guess, an opinion..which does not stand up to scutiny......imo...thanks..b

Who taught you that?

What do you mean there is evidence but no documentation?

Where does photographic evidence fit into your research?

a valued, friend and researcher who is no longer with us, taught me such, i see i made a mistake and did not clarify my words, sorry about that, i meant there must be evidence and documentation then the information can be verified as correct...I have always collected and enjoyed studying the photographs over the past years spending days into weeks studying within, at times to some satisfaction, at others none what so ever...A word for you, learn to express yourself with much less a demanding tone, i almost did not reply but then thought a word may do you some good, perhaps in tempering your tone...you will find that people will respond much more willingly to your posts...take care..b

[Daniel Gallup]

David Corn, the author of Blonde Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA's Crusades (1994) has argued "out-there conspiracy theorizing serves the interests of the powers-that-be by making their real transgressions seem tame in comparison." Do you agree?

I find it hard to respond to David Corn, because if Kennedy was murdered by someone other than Oswald, which of course I think is evident beyond cavil, then the existence of a conspiracy is also a given, and the apparent plethora of fraud in the evidence indictes the FBI and CIA and Secret Service -- all of this amounts to an "out-there" conspiracy theory which I don't think Corn would argue, based on the article cited by Mr. Rago, had any chance of success. In other words, his arguments against conspiracy in the 9-11 attacks are the same kinds of arguments being used to refute conspiracy in the Kennedy case.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Daniel Gallup

[Don Jeffries]

"Conspiracy theories" are indeed very dangerous to those who hold positions of prominence in the world. Such "theorizing" sheds unwanted light upon their nefarious activities. In reality, there is only one huge conspiracy, which has been going on for a very long time. The way I define this conspiracy is simply to call it organized corruption.

If one bothers to look into the facts about nearly any significant event, one discovers the official story is dubious at best. It's very hard not to get trapped going further and further down these rabbit holes, but there's enough to make your hair stand on end, if you dig deep enough. The JFK assassination is merely the most obvious example of wide scale corruption/conspiracy/coverup.

The LBJ Body Count, the Clinton Body Count, the Bush Body Count, the Obama Body Count- each modern administration has a slew of unnatural deaths associated with it. There is a continuous line of corruption from LBJ straight through to Obama; the horrific leaders Americans have been saddled with prove Lord Acton's axiom about absolute power corrupting absolutely quite convincingly.

I have gathered together research into the most obvious examples of conspiracy/corruption over the past fifty years- the Kennedy assassinations, 9/11, Waco, Oklahoma City, Iran Contra/October Surprise, the Franklin coverup and other child sex scandals, the death of JFK, Jr., Votescam, the Eugenics movement, the large charity boondoogle, and many more, into a book I hope to find a publisher for soon. What is most frightening about all this are the uunatural deaths- the sheer numbers are staggering, and persist through every Democratic and Republican administration.

David Corn exemplifies the mainstream journalist; pseduo-"liberal," but unquestioning of the perpetual war, police state. Predisposed to despise on cue, like a Pavlovian dog, any and all "conspiracy theories." I've yet to hear any journalist acknowledge that ANY conspiracy is even possible. And the reason the organized corruption endures is because these prestitutes, as Gerald Celente calls them, are unwilling to do any real investigative reporting, if any powerful forces are involved. They simply don't want to sacrifice their own very comfortable lifestyles. It pays well not to believe in "conspiracy theories," as Bill O'Reilly and his ilk have long realized.

The first step in solving a problem is to acknowledge the problem exists. Most Americans at this time are still taking their cues from the likes of David Corn and Bill O'Reilly, and thus aren't even going to admit the elephant is in the room, let alone try to do anything about it.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Don Jeffries

[Daniel Gallup]

Don I appreciate your post and perspective on the likes of David Corn. To murder a sitting president and by fraud and deception prevent a proper solution to the crime takes organization and cooperation among several groups of well-positioned individuals, who to this day have evaded the scrutiny of any formal investigation. And now that OReilly is rich and domesticated, he can cash in on the belief that the emperor is wearing clothes.

[Len Colby]

15 of the 19 hijackers were admitted to the US under a special CIA visas for terrorists program,

Wrong

[Len Colby]

Hi Mark... nicely put. Yet I must disagree with your Osama conclusion... it was the Pakistani Army who supported the terrorists, MOST of them were Saudis, the list of hijackers is woefully incorrect and NEVER been updated

There was no reason to 'update' it because they is no doubt about their identities

and finally, the FBI NEVER LISTED 9/11 when describing and listing Osama's crimes

LOL I love that one, yes the USG orchestrated this giant conspiracy to murder thousands of people and fake huge amounts of evidence but were unwilling or able to include 9/11 on his wanted poster! It was not listed because he had not been indicted. He wasn't indicted presumably because it was unlikely he would every be brought to trial.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Len Colby