Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Paul Trejo]

For Glenn Nall....

I can't stop at one or two examples, but here are ten of my favorite "smoking guns" demonstrating the truth of the Harvey and Lee thesis. Feel free to chose one or two and dig in, but the only way to really see the depth of this evidence is to read all thousand plus pages of Harvey and Lee.

10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.

9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.

8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."

7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.

6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.

5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.

4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.

3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?

2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.

1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Actually, Jim, I really appreciate this pithy summary of the Harvey & Lee theory.

Nevertheless, these ten arguments are insufficient to convince me that the Harvey & Lee theory has a firm grasp on reality, because most of these ten can easily be viewed as simple cases of mistaken identity.

Nobody here doubts that the FBI obsessively stomped on any data that might suggest anything other than a "Lone Nut" in the JFK assassination.

However, it is more likely that the FBI decided on the "Lone Nut" obsession on 11/22/1963 in the interest of National Security (as they said), than that they planned every detail of the JFK murder and Coverup so many months ahead of time.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited August 21, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

this pithy summary

It's that alright... but where did you pick up that lisp?

[Steven Gaal]

TWO OSWALDS, the Baylor documents via Garrison investigation (of the first LHO Hernandez arrest) indicate a timeframe explained by a double LHO . ,gaal

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http://www.opednews.com/articles/THE-JFK-CASE--THE-TWELVE-by-Bill-Simpich-120825-173.html by Bill Simpich

" The CIA examined Celso Hernandez as a Castro penetration agent

There is an intriguing report of FPCC member Oswald being arrested with Celso Hernandez in New Orleans in late 1962 (see pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) The ID of Hernandez was made years later and is admittedly shaky. The ID of Oswald is more substantive, as he id'd himself to the police as an FPCC member - but he was living in the Dallas area. The story is that the two men were picked up at the lakefront in Celso's work truck, owned by an electronics firm that was Celso's employer.

The most important thing is that right about this time, Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist. This kicked off an investigation that revealed in the autumn of 1963 that there was a left-wing Celso and a right-wing Celso, and a brother and sister who couldn't agree on who was who. [33] Oswald and Celso Hernandez were arrested together again in August 1963. What we do know is that throughout this era, Hernandez was under close scrutiny as a possible pro-Castro infiltrator. Below, we see Oswald's interactions with Carlos and Celso.

==

[33] Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist: For the 1962 Oswald-Hernandez arrest, see memo from investigator John Volz to DA Jim Garrison, 3/1/67, pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) RIF# 180-10085-10407. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/41827/rec/3 ======= "

Edited August 21, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[David Josephs]

For Glenn Nall....

I can't stop at one or two examples, but here are ten of my favorite "smoking guns" demonstrating the truth of the Harvey and Lee thesis. Feel free to chose one or two and dig in, but the only way to really see the depth of this evidence is to read all thousand plus pages of Harvey and Lee.

10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.

9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.

8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."

7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.

6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.

5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.

4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.

3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?

2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.

1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

One more thing about this list. If I were to pick just one topic that few people understand but simply cannot even be argued against with any honesty, I'd pick # 8 above, which is, "The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of 'Oswald's' pre-1962 income, offering instead 'Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps'." For MUCH more information on this topic, see:

http://harveyandlee.net/Unraveling/Unravels.htm

.

This is what a psywar op looks like, folks. Enjoy.

I was under the impression that calling another member here an agent provacateur - as in "this person running a psywar ops against us" - was frowned upon? He's calling Jim here exactly that.

Can you imagine if anyone accused Parker of the same thing?

Someone asked for examples. I offered a few, Jim offered more. Now, unlike you - we can prove these conclusions with evidence. Your hollow rebuttals simply digs you deeper in that hole of crap you keep shoveling and posting as research.

So rather than try to explain how 1) you even know the mechanics of a psywar-op to claim you can recgionize one, or 2) that you weren't claiming Jim is something that you'd need to prove you might as well go back to posting those vapid posts containing rhetoric, faith and belief.

That you think Jim's post constitutes a psywar op is very revealing mate. Gives us all some idea of how you approach this forum, the members and the topics discussed. To you it's a war - MY view against YOURS - not a colloaboration. Guess that's why your little place on the internet is so barren.

(For Glenn and others - a more clear explanation and visual is offered here http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22151&page=4#entry312833 )

Psychological Warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including MISO, Psy Ops, Political Warfare, "Hearts and Minds," and propaganda.^[1] The term is used "to denote any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people."^[2] Various techniques are used, and are aimed at influencing a target audience's value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. It is also used to destroy the morale of enemies through tactics that aim to depress troops psychological states.^[3][4] Target audiences can be governments, organizations, groups, and individuals, and is not just limited to soldiers. Civilians of foreign territories can also be targeted by technology and media so as to cause an effect in the government of their country

Edited August 21, 2015 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

"Ignorance is bliss every godamn time..."

Tom Waits

Tom Waits - very inspirational.

or the thesis of their upcoming book series proven worthless....

keep on shoveling mate.

[Glenn Nall]

For Glenn Nall....

I can't stop at one or two examples, but here are ten of my favorite "smoking guns" demonstrating the truth of the Harvey and Lee thesis. Feel free to chose one or two and dig in, but the only way to really see the depth of this evidence is to read all thousand plus pages of Harvey and Lee.

10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.

9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.

8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."

7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.

6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.

5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.

4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.

3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?

2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.

1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Actually, Jim, I really appreciate this pithy summary of the Harvey & Lee theory.

Nevertheless, these ten arguments are insufficient to convince me that the Harvey & Lee theory has a firm grasp on reality, because most of these ten can easily be viewed as simple cases of mistaken identity.

Nobody here doubts that the FBI obsessively stomped on any data that might suggest anything other than a "Lone Nut" in the JFK assassination.

However, it is more likely that the FBI decided on the "Lone Nut" obsession on 11/22/1963 in the interest of National Security (as they said), than that they planned every detail of the JFK murder and Coverup so many months ahead of time.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm sure, Paul, that reading and understanding was a task you mastered more than a few years ago.

I asked for some "points." I didn't ask for definitive, convincing proof.

They responded with points, and in no way attempted to prove a thing. So maybe you've once again put the cart before the horse.

As well, i'm certain that these two particular fellows are not sitting around wondering how they can convince Paul Trejo of anything.

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

everyone did their job.

[David Josephs]

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

everyone did their job.

You sometime wonder if they don't have a "Pounce" button on their keyboards which kicks in their "Post faith-based beliefs without proof once again" auto-reply functionality...

[Greg Parker]

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

How's the 'research' going on it, Glenn? Has it verified that they are correctly reading the school records?

Has it found any 1958 FW riots which vindicate that Oswald wrote to McBride that year?

Has it uncovered the relevance of a 1953 Queens PS 44 class photo?

Let me know. I have a lot more questions on your 'research' after that.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Jon G. Tidd]

Glenn Nall @ #1305

You write:

"... there's very little I would put past the US Government."

As to which, I say, yep.

[David Josephs]

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

How's the 'research' going on it, Glenn? Has it verified that they are correctly reading the school records?

Has it found any 1958 FW riots which vindicate that Oswald wrote to McBride that year?

Has it uncovered the relevance of a 1953 Queens PS 44 class photo?

Let me know. I have a lot more questions on your 'research' after that.

We are all so sorry you remain so terribly confused over these issues mate...

How again do they discuss Sputnik, the term itslef, prior to the launch?

Why does the management of Pfisterer's confirm Palmer's info?

Why did the FBI need to debunk Palmer the week after the assassination when the rest of these investigations into ciritcal facts and evidence does not begin for months?

Have you ever proven that these 1956 riots are what they refer to?

Have you still forgotten that you can't add ? 200 days in 125 available school days genius... make it work

As for Queens' PS44 class of June 1953... it was an example of how school photos are taken, that Oswald was not in this PS44 and that there were indeed 3 of them at the time.

All you ever have are questions mate... that you don't like or accept the answers only makes them wrong in your eyes... the rest of us can see just fine.

We also see that all your support has left.... Tommy, Bernie, Tracy have left you to your own devices while Paul T now tries to have your back ....

and then there's that ever deepening hole of faith-based crap you shovel at us.

Still no proof about your statements concerning Bobby Newman or your father/uncle confusion... and your song and dance about the 200 days of school the FBI counted from the NYC records THEY created being fit into only 125 days of actual school as shown above is always good for a laugh

Am I running a psywar ops on you as well mate? Paranoia runs deep, into your heart it will creep....

[Greg Parker]

How again do they discuss Sputnik, the term itslef, prior to the launch?

The confusion is all yours. All that McBride told the FBI was that they discussed "Russian success". I have posted two headlines from 1956 which discuss the success of the Russian space program.

That Armstrong assumed/wanted/needed those discussions to be about Sputnik doesn't make it so.

Why does the management of Pfisterer's confirm Palmer's info?

Because they want to be helpful? Because they have been manipulated by the patented homespun wholesomeness of Armstrong's Travelling Medicine Show? Who knows. They are wrong.

Why did the FBI need to debunk Palmer the week after the assassination when the rest of these investigations into ciritcal facts and evidence does not begin for months?

That the FBI investigation didn't follow your imagined investigative priorities is neither here nor there. For the most part they tackled what cane in, as it it came in.

Have you ever proven that these 1956 riots are what they refer to?

What "they"? I have found a report that matches the September 1956 time-frame and has all the known elements of Oswald's letter.

Have you still forgotten that you can't add ? 200 days in 125 available school days genius... make it work

You are trying to use an FBI report to make your case because you know damn well that you have been screwing up in your reading of the actual school records.

[Glenn Nall]

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

How's the 'research' going on it, Glenn? Has it verified that they are correctly reading the school records?

Has it found any 1958 FW riots which vindicate that Oswald wrote to McBride that year?

Has it uncovered the relevance of a 1953 Queens PS 44 class photo?

Let me know. I have a lot more questions on your 'research' after that.

1 - I used the term 'researched' within apostrophes as the term applies to my own reading and sorting through literature with which to learn something - NOT as it applies to you professional types who think everything they read and every thought they form is directly from God.

2 - I don't know who you think you are, or how many books you've written, or whether they're worthy of holding the back kitchen door open on a hot day in the outback, or are of actual value, or if you were Norman Mailer or Stephen King, but the way you talk to human beings tells ME who you are and what kind of person you are - AND that your opinions, no matter how well you do or do not write, aren't worth the oxygen they required to leave your mouth.

so personally, you can ask all the effin' questions you want. i do not give A DAMN.

no offense.

[Glenn Nall]

We are all so sorry you remain so terribly confused over these issues mate...

Not me. I'm not. I think it's funny.

[Greg Parker]

We are all so sorry you remain so terribly confused over these issues mate...

Not me. I'm not. I think it's funny.

Great! Then you should have no trouble explaining why and how I am confused. Any refusal to do so should and will be seen for what it is - you having no clue - just rooting for your team.

[David G. Healy]

i asked for some highlights with which i can 'research.' They offered some. You and Parker tried to xxxx it up.

everyone did their job.

You sometime wonder if they don't have a "Pounce" button on their keyboards which kicks in their "Post faith-based beliefs without proof once again" auto-reply functionality...

David,

H&L has many folks running in circles as to just WHO was Lee Harvey Oswald? It's been my experience that when "JFK researchers" start attacking another researchers project, the attackers own project(s) foundation, yes foundation is crumbling...

If one can't figure out, just who LHO was, it makes little or no difference how many books or videos one is producing covering the JFK assassination. That project will fail! And chance for failure is much higher these days...

Lifton's book concerning LHO was suppose to be out, what, 14-15 years ago? It seems David has a problem with LHO's identity too!

The Zapruder film has been called into question, as have other Elm St. assassination films and photos. All questions challenging the WCR findings concerning conspiracy are now met with deaf ears and indifference...

LHO, the alleged assassin, his identity is challenged, that is met with fear!

It's simple, post ones project research and results (tentative or final), that's it... There is no reason to DEBATE that research result. Researchers looking for endorsement(s), will get them or not. On and off-line.

As far as I'm concerned Greg and his team are biding time concerning release of their books/video programs. That's telling in and of itself. They're simply not sure of their results, or worse yet, some might be trolling for results, and doubly worse, make unnecessary arguments regarding the results they've arrived at. Hence, the recent bravado, arrogance and posturing. And frankly another wholesale assault on an already fractured research community, and of course that attracts a certain type of attention, usually the wrong kind, but attention none-the-less...

Why some persist doing this, despite the best of intentions (one hopes) is a wonder in and of itself. It's happened what seems like hundreds of times, and here it is again.

Keep on truckin', might be time for a book, eh?

--David