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Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong


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.... in MEMORY of RICHARD SCHWEIKER...

In 1976, during the Schweiker-Hart assassination investigation, a 5th "back-yard photograph" was found and identified as 133-C. MAR,63-04 Mrs. Geneva Ruth Dees, the widow of former Dallas Police Officer Roscoe Anthony White, found the photo among her husband's possessions. According to Mrs. Dees this print was acquired by her deceased husband during the course of his employment with the Dallas Police Department. The photograph was similar to the other backyard photographs except that it was much clearer, which indicated that it may have been a first generation photo. [H&L, p. 492]
Harvey Oswald's involvement with US intelligence agencies linked him directly to the most sensitive operations ever conducted by the CIA--the assassination of a US President. Oswald's involvement and knowledge had to remain secret, and he could never be allowed to go to trial. Senator Richard Schweiker, who originally chaired the HSCA until forced out by CIA interests, was correct when he said, "Oswald had the fingerprints of intelligence all over him.” [H&L, p. 944]
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The Very First Post in this thread is HERE, by Robin Ramsey:

This is a major publishing event in the JFK assassination world. Parts of Armstrong's work has been on the Net and he's spoken at some of the big JFK conferences. His work-in-progress became spoken of as 'the John Armstrong research'; and finally we have the book, a self-published 1000 pages; plus a CD-Rom containing documents he cites. (I haven't even looked at the CD-Rom yet.) Since one reading of this (and some sections I merely skimmed), is all I have managed so far, and that is barely scratching the surface of 1000 pages, this is a
provisional report; first reactions.
This is a staggering piece of research, twelve years of it, and a lot of money spent in the process. Armstrong has interviewed people who haven't been interviewed since the Warren Commission - and many who have never been interviewed before. He has read official files no non-official had seen before him. Lots of new ground is broken here in all kinds of little subsections of the story. But it is far too long. If the text was copy-edited, he or she deserves a slap: the text is full of stupid little errors. The typesetting is eccentric: the text is covered in italicisation, bold and underlining. A potentially great 400 or 500 page book is buried in this behemoth. Or perhaps it shouldn't be thought of as a book, but more as research assembled in book form.
Armstrong does three things. First, he is offering a theory of the assassination. His minute - microscopic - analysis of key episodes in the case is punctuated by chunks of the ClA's coven activities in the 1950s and 60s: Armstrong wants us to
see what the Agency is known to have been doing while the Oswald story unfolded. But his thesis that the CIA killed JFK and framed Oswald fails for the same reason that previous versions of this have failed: no matter how plausible the idea, no matter how much detail we are given of other, analogous things the CIA was doing in the post-war years, Armstrong cannot show who was doing the shooting; and he cannot identify the CIA conspirators. The only plausible conspirators he offers are Jack Ruby and Lee, one of the two 'Oswalds' in the story. Both have connections to the ClA-funded anti-Castro operations; but that is all.
The second thing Armstrong does is show in great detail how the FBI 'edited' the evidence about the shooting. The FBI had all the evidence collected by the Dallas police sent to Washington and a lot of it didn't return. Armstrong thinks the editing was done to conceal evidence of the two 'Oswalds'; and while this looks very plausible, it is not conclusively demonstrated.
Thirdly, and centrally, Armstrong takes on the 'two Oswalds' question, which has been around since 1967. It arose first because there seemed to be someone pretending to be Oswald, apparently framing the other, genuine 'Oswald'. Professor
Richard Popkin detailed this first in his The Second Oswald (London: Andre Deutscn/ Sphere, 1967). Then 'Oswalds' with different heights and slightly different faces were noticed. A decade after Popkin, Michael Eddowes published The Oswald
File (New York: Clarkson Potter, 1977), which concluded that one 'Oswald', the American Marine 'Oswald', went to the Soviet Union but another 'Oswald' came back in his place, a ringer being run by the Soviets, who shot the President. In Alias Oswald (Manchester, Maine; GKG partners, 1985) Robert Cutler and W. R. Morris argued that the second 'Oswald', was not a Soviet spy but a US spy. In their analysis the switch from one 'Oswald' to the other took place in 1958 while Oswald was serving in the Marine Corps in Japan.
By dint of minute examination of the paper record and a lot of phone-bashing and travelling, Armstrong validates the Cutler-Morris thesis - there was a switch - and has tried to trace the life of the 'hidden' Oswald. He appears to have established the existence of an intelligence operation which began with two boys, of different heights, but who looked similar and who lived parallel lives. One, Harvey, was Russian-speaking, probably a refugee from Eastern Europe; the other, Lee, was an American.
It begins in the early WOs, some of the cooler years of the Cold War. US intelligence had no reliable information on the Soviet Union. (This was before U-2 over-flights and satellites.) Soviet nuclear arms, even the Soviet economy, were a mystery. All the agents sent in by CIA and MI6 had been turned or captured. How could they get agents in? One way was to send them in as defectors. There seems to have been a CIA programme of defectors - Armstrong discusses some of the others - in which, he hypothesises, there was an attempt at a better class of defection. Armstrong believes the CIA ran two real identities in parallel, merged them - Lee and Harvey became Lee Harvey - and switched them just before the apparent defection of the American 'Oswald', Lee. Thus the CIA would insert into the Soviet Union a defector, Harvey, with two outstanding characteristics: one, unknown to the Soviet authorities, he could speak Russian; two, if Soviet intelligence checked his biography, they would find the American 'Lee Oswald', not a 'legend' but a real life. If this seems elaborate, Armstrong reminds the reader of the Soviet use of 'illegals', and quotes the example of Molody, 'Gordon Lonsdale', who operated in the UK.
This hypothesised CIA plan entailed both boys being in the Marines at the same time. Armstrong shows reports and presents recollections of 'Oswald' in two places at the same time through secondary school and in the Marines. The two 'Oswalds' explains the mass of contradictory material about Oswald in the Marines: one who couldn't shoot; one who could: one who was an apparent Marxist and read Russian, the other who didn't: one who was outgoing and a brawler; the other a bookworm. The plan also meant two 'mothers of Oswald', two 'Marguerite Oswalds'. Here the programme didn't extend to two women who looked similar: one was tall and elegant and the other short and plain. If Armstrong is correct, and the evidence looks convincing on one reading, a woman spent nearly ten years, pretending to be 'Marguerite Oswald', following the real Marguerite round the country, taking a series' of xxxx-jobs to do so.
It should be noted that there is no evidence, either paper record or firsthand, that this scheme took place. Armstrong infers it from the evidence of the two 'Oswalds'. If this is true, Armstrong has uncovered the most elaborate intelligence operation (and done the greatest piece of espionage detective work) I have ever read about.
Passage from Lobster Magazine (Summer, 2004)
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So Jim, quote me from H & L where it explains that "Harvey" dressed like a Southern boy in the Bronx Zoo photo as part of his job as an asset to "blend".

Was this kid a paid asset, btw? What exactly was in it for him? Or was he under MKULTRA mind kontrol?

They must have stopped giving him the drugs in New Orleans, eh? How else can you explain his sudden rebellion as described by Steve?

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So Jim, quote me from H & L where it explains that "Harvey" dressed like a Southern boy in the Bronx Zoo photo as part of his job as an asset to "blend".

Was this kid a paid asset, btw? What exactly was in it for him? Or was he under MKULTRA mind kontrol?

They must have stopped giving him the drugs in New Orleans, eh? How else can you explain his sudden rebellion as described by Steve?

Mr. Parker has no idea about child development and hostage psychology. gaal

==

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/hostage-kidnap.aspx

]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2627800/

Coping and survival strategies

Although it is usually regarded as an ‘effect’ of being taken hostage, the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ will be regarded here as a means of coping and surviving since it certainly enables, on many occasions, hostages to deal with extreme and life-threatening circumstances. The term was first coined by criminologist, Nils Bejerot, to describe the unexpected reactions of hostages both during and after an armed bank raid in Sweden in 1973.26 It was noted that, despite being subject to a life-threatening situation by the raiders, the hostages (three women and one man) forged positive relationships with their captors even to the point of helping to finance their defence after their apprehension. Conversely, the hostage-takers began to bond with their captives. This paradoxical reaction has been noted in many other incidents. The 10-year-old girl, Natascha Kampusch, who was held captive for eight years bonded with her abductor to such an extent that, on his suicide immediately after her escape, she blamed the police for his death and clearly grieved his death.27

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

http://www.livestrong.com/article/561005-what-are-the-causes-of-rebellious-children-teens/

Denying the Existence of Authority

A child might act rebellious as a way to exercise independence. For example, a younger child might constantly ask, “Why?” An older child might contradict everything a parent says, while a teen won’t follow instructions or will do the opposite of what her parent requests. In the Psychology Today online article “Surviving (Your Child’s) Adolescence,” psychologist Carl Pickhardt says that a child or teen’s act of independence is actually an act of dependence because the young person’s actions depend on doing the opposite of what authority figures want.

A Defensive Mechanism

When a child or teen feels anxious or scared, she might use rebellion as a defensive mechanism. A young child, according to Kahn, tests boundaries and pushes authority figures to see whether her fears regarding the consequences are real or imagined. Alternatively, she might act out just to see what would happen. If a child or teen feels anxious about being let down in a relationship, or is afraid of letting someone down, she might use rebellion to push a person.

Brain Development

As the adolescent brain develops, it becomes more complex, giving a young person the ability to reason and think abstractly. According to a Johns Hopkins University publication titled, “The Teen Years Explained,” as a teen develops cognitively, risk-taking behaviors naturally increase. It’s normal for a teen to act defiantly or rebelliously as she exercises her newly developed thinking, communication and social skills.

Edited by Steven Gaal
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TOP 10 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.
9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.
8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.
6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.
5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.
4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.
3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?
2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.
1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Jim,

The reason gullible people like you swallow the H & L Dogma "hook, line, and sinker" is twofold: 1 ) It's a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, and 2 ) as such it facilitates and encourages your continuing application of The Clustering Illusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Wake up, Parker and you Minions!

Big Parts of Harvey and Lee will be offered to you in a few hours from RIGHT NOW!

Please explain why "Lee Harvey Oswald's" 1956 Social Security Report included NO INCOME from his pre-Marine years, you know, from 1956 or so.

W-2 forms from "1956" should have included J.R. Michels, Dolly Shoe, Pfisterer Dental Lab, and so on.

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TOP 10 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.
9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.
8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.
6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.
5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.
4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.
3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?
2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.
1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Jim,

But the reason gullible True Believers like you swallow the H & L Dogma "hook, line, and sinker" is twofold: 1 ) It's a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, and 2 ) as such it facilitates and encourages your continuing application of The Clustering Illusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

--Tommy :sun

Tommy..

Please tell the truth. HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ HARVEY & LEE?

Jim

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TOP 10 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.
9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.
8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.
6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.
5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.
4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.
3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?
2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.
1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Jim,

But the reason gullible True Believers like you swallow the H & L Dogma "hook, line, and sinker" is twofold: 1 ) It's a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, and 2 ) as such it facilitates and encourages your continuing application of The Clustering Illusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

--Tommy :sun

Tommy..

Please tell the truth. HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ HARVEY & LEE?

Jim

Russian Spy Ring Aimed to Make Children Agents

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444097904577537044185191340

===================================================================

Jim

Graves seems to have never read book. gaal

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TOP 10 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.
9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.
8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.
6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.
5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.
4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.
3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?
2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.
1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

As if nobody else in the USA was ever named Lee Oswald, Harvey Oswald, or even Lee Harvey Oswald from 1940 to 1963...

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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TOP 10 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.
9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.
8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.
6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.
5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.
4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.
3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?
2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.
1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."

Jim,

But the reason gullible True Believers like you swallow the H & L Dogma "hook, line, and sinker" is twofold: 1 ) It's a perfect example of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, and 2 ) as such it facilitates and encourages your continuing application of The Clustering Illusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

--Tommy :sun

Tommy..

Please tell the truth. HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ HARVEY & LEE?

Jim

Russian Spy Ring Aimed to Make Children Agents

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444097904577537044185191340

===================================================================

Jim

Graves seems to have never read book. gaal

Have you read the article?

The "children" turns out to be one. And he was 20. And his parents deny they tried to recruit saying probably quite rightly, it would have been too risky.

The clincher that the story is BS is that they claim the 20 year old stood up and saluted "Mother Russia" when the parents tried to get him to join them. That is just too corny for words.

You guys a are a crack up.

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WOW! Nor a WORD from ...

Thomas Graves

Sheeesh!

Relax Jim.

Take some deep breaths. In through the nose, out through the mouth. That's right. Good.

Feel better already, don't you.

The reason I didn't see your increasingly frantic posts is because I was busy doing some actual research for another thread. (Have you ever done any actual research, Jim?)

What I was trying to do is locate and determine how far away the Monterrey Motel (where ten Cuban exiles driving into New Orleans from Miami on 7/24/63 allegedly spent the night because both cars "broke down") was from the "Big 7 Road" camp near Lacombe. Any of that mean anything to you, Jim?

In case you're interested, you can read all about it on Chris Newton's excellent thread "Lacombe Training Camp Location part duex [sic]".

Now, to answer your question, heck no, I haven't read Harvey and Lee! Why the heck would I want to waste my time doing given its patently ridiculous premises -- 1 ) that two young boys (and their mothers!) were chosen by the bad guys to participate in an elaborate doppelganger project, and that the bad guys somehow knew that the two boys would grow up to look very similar (when necessary) and / or very different (when necessary), 2 ) that "Lee" was (evidently) moved around and hidden in "safe" houses for two-and-one-half years so that he wouldn't bump into any of his friends and acquaintances while "Harvey" was in the USSR, and 3 ) that both "Lee's" and "Harvey's" families were "in on" the project all the way, and have miraculously been able to keep from "spilling the beans" / "letting the cat out of the bag" on it, both before and after the assassination, for about 60 years now. Seems to me the bad guys would have killed them all a long time ago to prevent that from happening. But then again maybe that wasn't necessary because the bad guys just MKULTRed all of them into obedient, zombie-like silence and obfuscation.

(Speaking of beans, I think Armstrong must have eaten a full plate of them and the gas caused him to come up with these weird ideas. Or maybe it was mushrooms.)

But to tell you the truth, Jim, I'm starting to entertain the idea that H&L is nothing but an elaborate CIA "disinfo project," designed to divide and confuse the JFK research community.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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