Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Bjørn Gjerde]

I don’t think there have to have been any encounter at all between Baker and Oswald in TSBD, but rather that the entire story was made up. It is highly unlikely that Baker would have asked anybody standing near the front door if they worked there. That was fairly obvious, and others would have noticed. Rather, a non-existing encounter may initially have been located to the 3^rd or 4^th floor, and then relocated to the 2^nd floor for some reason, possibly because they could then have Reid more or less corroborating it.

B Gjerde

[Richard Hocking]

from Sean's post above:

"... The shocking answer is given to us courtesy of three people who worked in the TSBD building:

Vicki Adams.

Sandra Styles.

Bonnie Ray Williams.

Here's what they tell us:

Baker and Truly never took the stairs up from the first floor.

They took one of the rear elevators."

One other name can be added to that list. Otis Williams.

"Fact is, as soon as the third shot happened, and everybody commenced milling around, I thought it came from the underpass. I entered the building immediately, climbed up the stairs where the warehouse elevator was which led to the 6th floor and went up to the 4th floor, which was the first one I could see from to see the underpass.

After I got up there and saw that nothing was going on on the underpass, I turned around and came back down to the office, and called my wife. Soon, while we were talking, people came in, officers rushed in, and I had to get off the phone.

I could have gone down the steps while Oswald came down, but he came down on the elevator. Anyway, I walked down the steps and didn't see him or anything."

- quoted from No More Silence, by Larry Sneed, pp 117-118

Williams and Adams/Styles do not mention seeing anyone, including each other.

I Italicized "but he came down on the elevator" , as being a peculiar thing for Williams to say.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[J. Raymond Carroll]

BK If Oswald is "Prayer Man" and has a coke in his hand, then he had to go back for another one, highly unlikely.

If Oswald is "Prayer Man" and has a coke in his hand, then it is highly unlikely he had to go back for another one.

And if Oswald is "Prayer Man" and doesn't have a coke in his hand, then it is still highly unlikely he will hurry off upstairs immediately after the assassination to buy one.

I am not a photo expert, but I am not blind yet.

Prayer Man has nothing visible in his hands.

He has not yet gotten his coke..

Mrs. Reid's testimony remains UNCONTRADICTED,

so there is no basis for any rational non-paranoid person

to doubt it.

Edited August 30, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll

[J. Raymond Carroll]

COLD HOME - BRITISH CANADA

Born in England's forceful scheming infamy

In spirit dampened lock-step debility

On this continent of British mastery

In Canada's three-tier-class society,

Schooled in brute ideals of English monarchy

Where 'we also' could become as Royalty

If we but revere traditions of the propertied

As brain-bent serfs in that oppressive tyranny,

And from low estate admire those of higher birth

Subjects to an Island Kingdom of much lesser worth

With no emancipation seen from that total travesty

I did attempt - to overthrow such 'Crowning' villainy!

© Harry J. Dean

More power to you, Harry.

Songs and poems.

What would life be like

without them?

Edited August 30, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Duplicate deleted

Edited August 30, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Pat Speer]

With all due respect to Ray Carroll, could I ask that this recent and rather bizarre string of music-related posts be deleted by the mods as off-topic and distracting?

I was thinking about that myself. Sorry, Ray, but I agree with Sean. Your posts were not about Oswald or the building, but about your favorite Irish songs. If you'd like to start such a thread, please do so on the appropriate section of the forum.

[Pat Speer]

from Sean's post above:

"... The shocking answer is given to us courtesy of three people who worked in the TSBD building:

Vicki Adams.

Sandra Styles.

Bonnie Ray Williams.

Here's what they tell us:

Baker and Truly never took the stairs up from the first floor.

They took one of the rear elevators."

One other name can be added to that list. Otis Williams.

"Fact is, as soon as the third shot happened, and everybody commenced milling around, I thought it came from the underpass. I entered the building immediately, climbed up the stairs where the warehouse elevator was which led to the 6th floor and went up to the 4th floor, which was the first one I could see from to see the underpass.

After I got up there and saw that nothing was going on on the underpass, I turned around and came back down to the office, and called my wife. Soon, while we were talking, people came in, officers rushed in, and I had to get off the phone.

I could have gone down the steps while Oswald came down, but he came down on the elevator. Anyway, I walked down the steps and didn't see him or anything."

- quoted from No More Silence, by Larry Sneed, pp 117-118

Williams and Adams/Styles do not mention seeing anyone, including each other.

I Italicized "but he came down on the elevator" , as being a peculiar thing for Williams to say.

The "milling around" described by Williams could have lasted a minute or two or three. If so, he went to the back stairs after Baker and Truly, and went to the 4th floor after them. Oswald, in the meantime, took the front stairs to the first floor before exiting the building.

It's not prudent, IMO, to take the words of people 20-30 years after an event, and assume they remember the details of a story they probably never bothered to learn in the first place. If Williams thought Oswald took the elevator, it could very well have been because he had no recollection of Oswald's running into Mrs. Reid, and exiting from the front of the building.

Now, that said, thanks for posting Williams' words. I'd failed to catch that line while reading Sneed.

Speaking of Sneed, does anyone know if he filmed or taped his interviews, or provided his notes to researchers? My understanding is that he interviewed people, then wrote up their stories in the first person based upon these interviews. Is that correct, and , if so, where are his original notes?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I was thinking about that myself. Sorry, Ray, but I agree with Sean. Your posts were not about Oswald or the building, but about your favorite Irish songs. If you'd like to start such a thread, please do so on the appropriate section of the forum.

Pat, I Must protest, on the grounds that

not all the songs were Irish.

There was a Dylan song in there

and Mull of Kintyre was written and performed by a Brit,

Sir James Paul McCartney.

Sir Paul is on record as saying Oz

"couldn't have done it, could he?"

The relevance of Bob Dylan may not now be apparent,

but I promise it soon will be,

and when that happens, Pat,

I will expect you to dance an Irish jig.

I will be happy to supply the music.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Interesting bit of information I just discovered in an affidavit given by Bill Shelley on 22/11/63.

"After the President's accident (?), I started checking around and I'd missed Lee. I ask Mr. Truly about him and he said he had not seen him."

[Martin Hinrichs]

Martin, I was thinking that it looked like a person taking pictures as well. IMO, he had to get in the shade to do so, because otherwise in the sunlight he would only get glare and would be unable to see what he was attempting to get a picture of. As much as I think that prayerman looks like Oswald and thought we had the smoking gun, I do believe a camera in his hands would remove him from consideration. (that is, of course, if it is a camera that he is holding)

Sure Terry, i was thinking the same.

But on the other hand Sean's and Richard's arguments are convincing.

None of the TSBD employees standind in the doorway reported to have taken pictures and

the left arm of this man is considerable lower in Wiegman.

I would use both arms holding a camera.

I don't know what that white piece in front of his head is in Wiegman...in Darnell it is gone.

Just the arms are noticeable lower.

What is that?

best to you

Martin

[Martin Hinrichs]

This person has what looks like a camera up to his face in Wiegman....lowered down in Couch.

But i surely don't know what that strange behavior with the arms is.

Hello Martin, and thank you for that amazing clip. I am writing an article about the discovery of Prayer Man,

and would like to find out more about Gerda Gunckel. Does anyone have her photo?

We know that Prayer Man Lee was a fan of JFK.

I submit that we see here

a man APPLAUDING his

FEARLESS LEADER!

who has just passed by.

Elementary,

my dear Watson!

A pleasure Ray.

I was in 2011 and 2012 often in contact with Gerda Dunckel. We chatted often via PM.

You know, we speak the same language.

But since a half year she did respond anymore. Thats truly sad. She made some great stuff.

best

Martin

[Martin Hinrichs]

Here a closeup crop of the Wiegman film:

Superb stuff, Martin.

Looks to me like Prayer Man's right hand is significantly higher than his left here.

Contrast the 'join' in Darnell:

My money is still on a Coca-Cola--taking a swig in Wiegman, return to two-hand clasp by Darnell.

Yes Sean, you are correct. My idea of a camera in his hand is apparently invalid.

Has someone created an overview in map to show all the people in the doorway?

To me it looks like Prayerman was standing directly at the wall but not on the top pedestal.

Most likely one step lower.

When looking closely at the stable Darnell (not Couch as i stated falsely) sequence from me

i see the right glass door being operated. Opended most likely. But thats just a side note.

best to you

Martin

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I was in 2011 and 2012 often in contact with Gerda Dunckel. We chatted often via PM.

You know, we speak the same language.

But since a half year she did respond anymore. Thats truly sad. She made some great stuff.

Thank you Martin.

Do you think this could be our Gerda?

LUDWIG HILDA GERDA Gunckel

http://www.comtur.cl/comtur/index_2.php?p=2&emp=855022

[Martin Hinrichs]

I was in 2011 and 2012 often in contact with Gerda Dunckel. We chatted often via PM.

You know, we speak the same language.

But since a half year she did respond anymore. Thats truly sad. She made some great stuff.

Thank you Martin.

Do you think this could be our Gerda?

LUDWIG HILDA GERDA Gunckel

http://www.comtur.cl/comtur/index_2.php?p=2&emp=855022

I don't think so Ray. To my knowledge she used an Alias.

Martin

[Robert Prudhomme]

Roy Truly's affidavit of 23/11/63 has some interesting information, as well.

"We searched the roof and a small room, also checked the landings. We could look out over the tracks and street below. We did not find anything. We started down on the elevator. The officer took a hurried look on a couple of floors on the way down. We then met some other officers on the 4th floor searching the building. I overheard someone say that the shot came from the window of our building. By that time there was several people in the building. Some fifteen minutes later I was checking our employees, and I did not find Lee. I asked Mr. Shelley if he had seen Lee. He said no. I then contacted Chief Lumkin and told him Lee was missing."

Just the day before, it was Shelley who claimed he had asked Truly if he had seen Lee, to which Truly had replied no. And there are the two officers on the 4th floor again. Strange.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Robert Prudhomme