Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Thomas .. were you going to say charming....? Maybe I'm over-interpreting this but I thought his "I'll give you abnormal" comment was a vote for the films being genuine. I could be wrong on that though, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Thomas .. were you going to say charming....? Maybe I'm over-interpreting this but I thought his "I'll give you abnormal" comment was a vote for the films being genuine. I could be wrong on that though, obviously. Vanessa, In this poll, casting an "abnormal" vote is the same thing as saying that one agrees with Mady that the two film clips showing Lovelady in front of the TSBD after the assassination are "suspicious" -- that they were "faked" or "staged" sometime after 11/22/63. "Abnormal" here means "Suspicious" which is a polite word for "Faked" and "Staged". My using the word "abnormal" was a joke, a play on words, so that I could put Mady in the "abnormal" category, at least semantically speaking. Get it? I should have just said "Suspicious," I guess. I suspect that Bob P. thinks that the two clips are not suspicious / faked/ staged, but instead that they are perfectly "normal." I thought he was just making a joke himself when he wrote, "You want abnormal? I'll give you abnormal." Now I'm really confused. But then again for me that's perfectly ............. normal. So which side of the poll do you want me to put Bob P. on? On the "abnormal" side with Mady, or on the "normal" side with you and me? lol --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks Thomas - I'm with you and I followed your reasoning there too. I think Bob is on the normal side with you and me. Sorry if that's not right, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Thanks Thomas - I'm with you and I followed your reasoning there too. I think Bob is on the normal side with you and me. Sorry if that's not right, Bob. Vanessa, Okie dokie! Into the "normal" side he goes. Unless, of course, he really insists on being on the "abnormal" side (lol) , or would prefer to abstain. Poll Update: The Martin and Hughes Clips Showing Lovelady In Front Of The TSBD Were-- "Abnormal / Suspicious / Faked / Staged" -- Mady "Normal" -- Tommy, Vanessa, Carmine, Bob. P., have I forgotten anybody?, oh yes -- Paul B. --Tommy Edited March 19, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Is this a photo of Oswald leaving the TSBD? JFKCountercoup2: Oswald Leaving TSBD? Does anyone know who took this photo and when? And this sequence: ▶ L.H. Oswald Leaving TSBD November 22 1963? - YouTube BK In order to get this thread back on track, why don't we just start all over again. LOL --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Ray Is there no-one else at all in the research community that has a computer that could do this? Is it worth posting a thread on Ed Forum asking for someone with that technology to help out? Hi Vanessa, I'm sure you are right. There must be someone on here who is competent in the art of upgrading the Prayer man frame. Unfortunately, it's not me. If you haven't read "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T. Phillips, about the computer work of Tom Wilson, i recommend it. (It's available on Amazon.) If, as I believe, Tom's system works as he said it did, then he has shown the problems with the Zap film, the autopsy photos, the Moorman polaroid photo and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Ray Is there no-one else at all in the research community that has a computer that could do this? Is it worth posting a thread on Ed Forum asking for someone with that technology to help out? Hi Vanessa, I'm sure you are right. There must be someone on here who is competent in the art of upgrading the Prayer man frame. Unfortunately, it's not me. If you haven't read "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T. Phillips, about the computer work of Tom Wilson, i recommend it. (It's available on Amazon.) If, as I believe, Tom's system works as he said it did, then he has shown the problems with the Zap film, the autopsy photos, the Moorman polaroid photo and others. Been working on this for a while and I just don't think there is enough image data to bring out features of this person I'm by no means an expert at enhancement yet I've put a decent amount of time in learning and trying. As you say, maybe a better source image DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Connelly Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Ray Is there no-one else at all in the research community that has a computer that could do this? Is it worth posting a thread on Ed Forum asking for someone with that technology to help out? Hi Vanessa, I'm sure you are right. There must be someone on here who is competent in the art of upgrading the Prayer man frame. Unfortunately, it's not me. If you haven't read "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T. Phillips, about the computer work of Tom Wilson, i recommend it. (It's available on Amazon.) If, as I believe, Tom's system works as he said it did, then he has shown the problems with the Zap film, the autopsy photos, the Moorman polaroid photo and others. Been working on this for a while and I just don't think there is enough image data to bring out features of this person I'm by no means an expert at enhancement yet I've put a decent amount of time in learning and trying. As you say, maybe a better source image DJ As far as I am aware, if the data isn't present in the original image in the first place then it is my understanding that it can't be brought out or enhanced. Any other 'enhancement' would just be adding data to the existing image and if we are going to do that, we may as well paste Oswald's head directly onto the image. I do however think the figure depicted most certainly 'could' be Oswald, he appears to tbe approx the correct height and build, similar hairline, dark shirt, etc. My first impression also was that the figure was removing or replacing a lid on a bottle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Food for thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Milch Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I wasn't an EF member when this thread originally made its run & I am way back around page 22 in catching up. Not knowing just yet what is contained within the pages I haven't read yet & here, I'd like to offer some observations (just in case no one else has): Prayerman is either wearing a short sleeve dark shirt or a long sleeve dark shirt with the arm sleeves rolled up to or above both elbows. I haven't seen a watch or rings on the person but I do see what looks like a typical soft drink bottle in his right hand. His stance resembles someone holding a camera & waiting to take photos with it. If Prayerman is Lee Oswald, is it possible that he went to see Marina on Thursday, Nov 21, 1963 to get his camera to snap a photo or 2 of JFK turning the corner at the intersection directly in front of the TSBD? Marina surely would have been impressed with such a close-up view of JFK & Jackie (a lot of married men will attest that an impressed spouse often leads to a trip to Nookieville; trips that often become rarer the longer time passes in some relationships). Wasn't Oswald's camera missing when police searched Ruth Paine's home? If Lee Oswald was taking photos just prior to the ambush, what happened to his camera & the film he took? Was it left at his rooming house? Was a co-worker asked to hang onto it for him? Was it given to a Intel 'handler'?Was it left in the TSBD? Did police find it & confiscate it? Where is it & the film now? For those who view Mr. Oswald as instrument of some government(s) Intel, instructing him to take photos of the President & First Lady as they pass his work building seems a normal assignment. No one has suggested the possibility of a Oswald clone 'look-alike' in the early part of this thread being Prayerman. Purpose of the clone? Perhaps to offer an alibi for LHO (if he had been upstairs shooting at or in position to shoot at JFK). In the Darnell-Couch stabilized & combined footage Gif constructed by Gerda Dunkle (page 16 of this thread) someone is running towards the TSBD from the left side of the red brick road extension towards the TSBD entrance (west to east) at the same time Baker is sprinting towards the front door. It almost looks like the person is chasing after Baker. Someone in a dark suit or uniform is rapidly moving west by the parked cars while the rest ensues. This person may have been the officer that encountered the fake SS man behind the stockade fence. If Prayerman is indeed Oswald and he followed Baker & Truly into the building, what could that reason have been (if possession of a soft drink had been previously obtained)? Could Prayerman have been attempting to tell Baker/Truly that the shooting occurred outside the TSBD & NOT inside? Was a consensus reached in this thread in regards to Prayerman being Lee Oswald or not? Won't it be a kick in the pants if it turns out Lee Oswald really did shoot JFK....not with a rifle, but a camera. BM Edited March 21, 2015 by Brad Milch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I wasn't an EF member when this thread originally made its run & I am way back around page 22 in catching up. Not knowing just yet what is contained within the pages I haven't read yet & here, I'd like to offer some observations (just in case no one else has): Prayerman is either wearing a short sleeve dark shirt or a long sleeve dark shirt with the arm sleeves rolled up to or above both elbows. I haven't seen a watch or rings on the person but I do see what looks like a typical soft drink bottle. His stance resembles someone holding a camera & waiting to take photos with it. No one has suggested the possibility of a Oswald clone 'look-alike' in the early part of this thread being Prayerman. Purpose of the clone? Perhaps to offer an alibi for LHO (if he had been upstairs shooting at or in position to shoot at JFK). In the Darnell footage someone is running towards the TSBD from the left side of the red brick road extension towards the TSBD entrance (west to east) at the same time Baker is sprinting towards the front door. It almost looks like the person is chasing after Baker. Someone in a dark suit or uniform is rapidly moving west by the parked cars while the rest ensues. This person may have been the officer that encountered the fake SS man behind the stockade fence. Was a consensus reached in this thread in regards to Prayerman being Lee Oswald or not? If Prayerman is indeed Oswald and he followed Baker & Truly into the building, what could that reason have been (if possession of a soft drink had been previously obtained)? Could Prayerman have been attempting to tell Baker/Truly that the shooting occurred outside the TSBD & NOT inside? BM Brad, there was a broad consensus among Warren Commission critics, but not total. Miracles only happen at Christmas. But then - a lot of disasters do too. Coke bottle and camera have both been put forward. I am aware of work that was done measuring the distance between hands and obtaining data on dimension of certain cameras. There was a match to one that Oswald allegedly had access to. I believe Oswald beat Baker and Truly back inside. They were reported in the NY Herald (quoting Ochus Campbell) as spotting Oswald near a store room on the first floor when they came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Milch Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi Greg: Thank you for the info. At the rate I'm going I should have the entire thread digested by the end of next week. From your info it's obvious a lot of serious thought was shared by the participants. Best, BM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hi Greg: Thank you for the info. At the rate I'm going I should have the entire thread digested by the end of next week. From your info it's obvious a lot of serious thought was shared by the participants. Best, BM The measurement exercise was done off the boards - but yes, it really was a pinnacle in what these can achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 It seems obvious to me that for someone familiar with cameras and working right on the route of the motorcade it made perfect sense for Oswald to be taking photos, unless of course he was up to something nefarious. The lack of actual documentation of the post assassination questioning of Oswald leaves a blank slate. We are given hints of what he might have said and what questions were being asked, but it's easy enough to imagine him saying point blank where he was and what he was doing when the motorcade went past. He must have, and the lack of transcript is, as everyone agrees, highly suspicious and improbable. We know he wasn't confessing, and we can be sure that whatever he was saying didn't fit with the story that was to unfold later. So yes, why not 'I was in front of the building with a coke and a camera, and by the way where the hell is my camera'? Makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I wasn't an EF member when this thread originally made its run & I am way back around page 22 in catching up. Not knowing just yet what is contained within the pages I haven't read yet & here, I'd like to offer some observations (just in case no one else has): Prayerman is either wearing a short sleeve dark shirt or a long sleeve dark shirt with the arm sleeves rolled up to or above both elbows. I haven't seen a watch or rings on the person but I do see what looks like a typical soft drink bottle. His stance resembles someone holding a camera & waiting to take photos with it. No one has suggested the possibility of a Oswald clone 'look-alike' in the early part of this thread being Prayerman. Purpose of the clone? Perhaps to offer an alibi for LHO (if he had been upstairs shooting at or in position to shoot at JFK). In the Darnell footage someone is running towards the TSBD from the left side of the red brick road extension towards the TSBD entrance (west to east) at the same time Baker is sprinting towards the front door. It almost looks like the person is chasing after Baker. Someone in a dark suit or uniform is rapidly moving west by the parked cars while the rest ensues. This person may have been the officer that encountered the fake SS man behind the stockade fence. Was a consensus reached in this thread in regards to Prayerman being Lee Oswald or not? If Prayerman is indeed Oswald and he followed Baker & Truly into the building, what could that reason have been (if possession of a soft drink had been previously obtained)? Could Prayerman have been attempting to tell Baker/Truly that the shooting occurred outside the TSBD & NOT inside? BM Brad, there was a broad consensus among Warren Commission critics, but not total. Miracles only happen at Christmas. But then - a lot of disasters do too. Coke bottle and camera have both been put forward. I am aware of work that was done measuring the distance between hands and obtaining data on dimension of certain cameras. There was a match to one that Oswald allegedly had access to. I believe Oswald beat Baker and Truly back inside. They were reported in the NY Herald (quoting Ochus Campbell) as spotting Oswald near a store room on the first floor when they came in. Hi Greg I would be very interested in seeing the NY Herald article you refer to. There is something else I have requested of the membership, but have not gotten a reply to yet. Beside Eddie Piper, were there any witnesses on the 1st floor that saw Baker and Truly enter the TSBD and make their way to the elevators and stairs in the NW corner? I know this is one of those basic things that every JK researcher should know, but there just doesn't seem to be anything on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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