Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Bill Miller]

^^

 

Chris, you have been discussing this 'prayer-man' - so can you tell me why this individual is important. No one is suggesting that he is Oswald - are they?

[Chris Davidson]

Bill,

Yes, some believe it is Oswald and others don't, based on different criteria.

 

 

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Chris Davidson said:

Bill,

Yes, some believe it is Oswald and others don't, based on different criteria.

I find it hard to believe that while people were waiting for the President to show up that Oswald was standing near Lovelady and no one saw him. In fact, the motorcade made two unplanned stops which made it late arriving to the plaza. Who doesn't look around and observe the people around them when waiting for a once and a lifetime opportunity like seeing JFK pass by them.

 But rather than to talk human nature ... how long after the shots were fired that Hughes filmed the so-called 'praying-man' would you estimate it was?

[Chris Scally]

10 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

NBC has acknowledged they have them but the powers that be will not allow anything done with them.

The best avenue to explore is the 3rd generation copies that were sold to affiliates.

According to your website (http://www.prayer-man.com/the-search-for-the-weigman-darnell-films/), Gary Mack wrote in March 2015 -

"NBC owns the original Wiegman film but when producers of JFK: Death in Dealey Plaza asked them for it 12 years ago (at my request), NBC could only locate a 1960s-era video tape of it. We wound up using, I think, a 1963/1964 theatrical newsreel version held by UCLA.

NBC took the original Wiegman and Darnell films from the Dallas NBC affiliate to New York following the assassination weekend. Whether the network still has the original Darnell film is unknown, but as a former employee I know the affiliate does not have it or a copy. Nor does Jimmy Darnell.

Fortunately, a first-generation 16mm copy print was made in Dallas over that weekend and it is in the Museum’s collection; however, the Museum cannot do anything with it until copyright issues are resolved." 

The foregoing clearly suggests that NBC legally owns, but cannot find, the original Wiegman film, and nobody knows where the original Darnell film is, either. Is this new statement, that "NBC has acknowledged they have them but the powers that be will not allow anything done with them", an update on the position as of March last year? If so, who exactly in NBC has "acknowledged" that they currently have the camera-original Darnell and Wiegman films? And who are "the powers that be" in NBC who will not allow anything to be done with the films?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chris Scally

[Sandy Larsen]

22 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

In Hughes:

He leans forward, out of the shadows and then back.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OemhFSmFyNlR0cEE/view?usp=sharing

What I see in this video is Lovelady in the shadow, then walking out into sunlight where he lifts his hand to shade his eyes from the sun. Then he steps backward, back into the shade.

And since he's in the shadow created by the west wall of the TSBD, he must therefore be on the top landing.

Does anybody else see what I've described here.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Chris Scally said:

According to your website (http://www.prayer-man.com/the-search-for-the-weigman-darnell-films/), Gary Mack wrote in March 2015 -

"NBC owns the original Wiegman film but when producers of JFK: Death in Dealey Plaza asked them for it 12 years ago (at my request), NBC could only locate a 1960s-era video tape of it. We wound up using, I think, a 1963/1964 theatrical newsreel version held by UCLA.

NBC took the original Wiegman and Darnell films from the Dallas NBC affiliate to New York following the assassination weekend. Whether the network still has the original Darnell film is unknown, but as a former employee I know the affiliate does not have it or a copy. Nor does Jimmy Darnell.

Fortunately, a first-generation 16mm copy print was made in Dallas over that weekend and it is in the Museum’s collection; however, the Museum cannot do anything with it until copyright issues are resolved." 

The foregoing clearly suggests that NBC legally owns, but cannot find, the original Wiegman film, and nobody knows where the original Darnell film is, either. Is this new statement, that "NBC has acknowledged they have them but the powers that be will not allow anything done with them", an update on the position as of March last year? If so, who exactly in NBC has "acknowledged" that they currently have the camera-original Darnell and Wiegman films? And who are "the powers that be" in NBC who will not allow anything to be done with the films?

 

 

 

We were notified through email correspondence from the account mgr at NBC News - NBCUniversalArchives

"I just received a call from the powers that be and sadly they do not want to authorize any film transfers from the original footage. They are pretty protective of the original and hence the reason we have the dubs that we are able to license from."

[Chris Scally]

34 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

 

We were notified through email correspondence from the account mgr at NBC News - NBCUniversalArchives

"I just received a call from the powers that be and sadly they do not want to authorize any film transfers from the original footage. They are pretty protective of the original and hence the reason we have the dubs that we are able to license from."

Hmmm ... very interesting.

Why would they now admit that they have the "original footage", when it was supposedly "missing" for so long? And an e-mail from an account manager, quoting "the powers that be" is certainly a most unorthodox and unusual mechanism by which to eventually come clean, and admit they have such footage. Also, does the e-mail specify exactly what "original footage" he is talking about? Darnell and Weigman? Or just Weigman? Or just Darnell? Are NBC playing word games?

The HSCA doesn't appear to have been able to get anything out of them, either. The only specific references I can find to either film are to "movie stills" from Weigman's film, and "Sprague copies of Weizman (sic) film".

Very interesting indeed.

 

  

[Guest]

Darnell and Wiegman, the email exchange was in the Summer of last year.

Sprague had a 5th generation copy that he cut up to have large format negative reproductions made of.

[Bill Miller]

9 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

What I see in this video is Lovelady in the shadow, then walking out into sunlight where he lifts his hand to shade his eyes from the sun. Then he steps backward, back into the shade.

And since he's in the shadow created by the west wall of the TSBD, he must therefore be on the top landing.

Does anybody else see what I've described here.

 

I see what you see. There are at least two other people on that landing besides Lovelady in Altgens 6. At the angle at which this photo was taken ... even the dark skinned man is partially hidden by the wall. The same angle makes the dark skinned man and Lovelady appear to have one man in front of the other, but they are actually several feet apart. 

(Note:  In this crop of Altgens 6 - someone had wanted Lovelady to be Oswald so badly that they moved Billy over and placed him in a white short sleeved shirt with no regard to the evidence of what Lee was shown to be wearing when arrested.)

 

 

From Wiegman's angle ..........

Edited December 9, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

^^

 

I hope the spacing issue of some of the people in Altgens 6 compared to the Wiegman film was helpful in some way.

Also thanks for the civil responses as this so-called Prayer-Man was new to me since I had last been to this site. I could have read the entire thread, but I am not interested in debating anyone or being involved in any (for a better terminology) 'non-productive tinkling matches'.

I don't recall any witnesses saying that Oswald was on the landing as the President passed by. My own personal research reminds me that one witness's statement that she saw Lee Oswald sitting in the lunchroom eating his lunch on her way out to view the motorcade moments before the arrival of the motorcade and Officer Baker was running up the steps within 10 seconds or so after the shooting, thus making the most deplorable image known as 'Prayer-Man' not possibly being Oswald in my mnd.

I have stated on this and other forums that there was without a doubt in my mind a conspiracy carried out in the murder of JFK by others and that I have serious doubts based on all the evidence I have seen that Oswald was a shooter on 11/22/63. Having said this, it was recently brought to my attention as to what some rather vulgar individuals from another web site had to say pertaining to the few simple postings I have made here. I do not know where their low-brow venom and inability to be civil comes from unless derived from their own insecurities over allowing others to have an opinion or to freely seek specific information concerning a topic of interest such as this involving JFK's Assassination. It is such nonsense I was informed of pertaining to another site that allows me to appreciate the manner of cooperation I have witnessed in my inquiry here.

Thanks again.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

If you find it odd that no one on the steps reported seeing Oswald on the steps, how odd do you find it that only one witness on the steps recalled seeing a white helmeted motorcycle cop run up the steps? Frazier would have been standing in front of the door and this cop (Baker) likely would have had to move him out of the way, yet Frazier et al have no recollection of seeing Baker.

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

If you find it odd that no one on the steps reported seeing Oswald on the steps, how odd do you find it that only one witness on the steps recalled seeing a white helmeted motorcycle cop run up the steps? Frazier would have been standing in front of the door and this cop (Baker) likely would have had to move him out of the way, yet Frazier et al have no recollection of seeing Baker.

 

I assume we have watched the same film showing Officer Baker running from his motorcycle towards the TSBD and at no time did I see him have to move anyone out of his way. The Couch film doesn't show any obstructions for Baker on his way past the line of folks who were along the street so can you direct me to a film, photo, or testimony, that offers evidence to the contrary as the Wiegman film looks as though there are about 7 people near or on the steps. There appears to be plenty of room for Baker to maneuver himself or have time for any of those people to move out of his way depending on where he went up the steps. And depending on what Frazier was watching at that moment - he very well not have seen or remembered seeing Baker as his attention could have been drawn elsewhere down by the knoll. There are many avenues to speculate on and one or none of them being correct.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

Did you see him climb the steps?

 

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Did you see him climb the steps?

Did you see him pushing or moving anyone out of the way?

Did you read any witness statements that suggested that Officer Baker pushed or moved anyone out of his way from the time he left his cycle to the time he entered the building?

Years ago I had read every witness statement and/or testimony who had given one. Over the years I have watched every documentary and listened to every witness who that my research made me aware of that has had anything to say. If you have anything besides a theory that has no evidence to support it, then I would like to know about it if you are willing to share it.

Thanks Robert!

[Robert Prudhomme]

Don't waste my time.