Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bart Kamp said: http://www.prayer-man.com/billy-nolan-lovelady-and-bill-shelly-did-leave-the-steps-almost-immediately-after-the-shots-were-fired/ Bart, I would like for those two guys to be Shelly and Lovelady, but without the contrast being bumped way up to give the appearance of a plaid shirt on one man is a man-made image - the coat is not plaid. It is quite a bit lower in the back to which the shirt of Loverlady's was not tailored that way. The manipulation of that image from its raw state has given a similar false plaid design to other peoples clothing too. Edited December 18, 2016 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 16 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, That woman (who I agree is probably Gloria Calvery) was captured on film after the assassination, standing on the grass (iirc) and walking up the Elm Street sidewalk with the two gals who were with her by the Stemmon's sign. Source??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: Bart, I would like for those two guys to be Shelly and Lovelady, but without the contrast being bumped way up to give the appearance of a plaid shirt on one man is a man-made image - the coat is not plaid. It is quite a bit lower in the back to which the shirt of Loverlady's was not tailored that way. The manipulation of that image from its raw state has given a similar false plaid design to other peoples clothing too. Dear Bill, How the heck could the contrast be "bumped up" in such a way as to create such a regular pattern of right-angled white stripes on the shirt proper, and that white stripe that goes down the entire length of his sleeve? You should also take into consideration the fact that Lovelady's distinctive bald spot is visible in a few frames upon a close, slow-motion viewing of the film when it is enlarged. -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: Source??? Dear Bill, I gotta do all the work for you? LOL Bob Prudhomme and I went through all of this some time ago. That's what you get for being away so long. -- Tommy Edited December 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, I gotta do all the work for you? LOL Bob Prudhome and I went through all of this some time ago. That's what you get for being away so long. -- Tommy Work - I have posted far more source material since discussing this with either one of you than both of you put together. Now I ask again - what is the source for the image you spoke of. Do you not remember if it was a film or a photo or who took it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: Work - I have posted far more source material since discussing this with either one of you than both of you put together. Now I ask again - what is the source for the image you spoke of. Do you not remember if it was a film or a photo or who took it? Dear Bill, BFD, and Don't jump to conclusions. How long have you been discussing this with us? Couple of days? LOL Now that you've aggravated me, maybe I'll just let you stew for awhile. (While I frantically search for those posts on that old thread so that I can please you, William.) -- Tommy Edited December 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, How the heck could the contrast be "bumped up" in such a way as to create such a regular pattern of right-angled white stripes on the shirt proper, and that white stripe that goes down the entire length of his sleeve? Several things .... the how isn't as important as seeing that effect show up on other peoples clothing giving a similar appearance. How did those plaid designs show up - were they there in the raw image ... of course they were not! And from that distance and on such a poor quality image - no white stripes should even be visible --- especially as large as they appear to be. The same with the dark squares. I am just not impressed with your casual less than thorough examination of these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, BFD, and Don't jump to conclusions. How long have you been discussing this with us? Couple of days? LOL Now that you've aggravated me, maybe I'll just let you stew for awhile. (While I frantically search for those posts on that old thread so that I can please you, William.) -- Tommy Have you read this thread, yet, William? Maybe the answers you're demanding from me are hidden in it. -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, BFD, and Don't jump to conclusions. How long have you been discussing this with us? Couple of days? LOL Now that you've aggravated me, maybe I'll just let you stew for awhile. (While I frantically search for those posts on that old thread so that I can please you, William.) -- Tommy Even the name of the thread would be good and I could do a search. By the way ... would you like for me to copy and paste the information I have posted since posting back and forth with you compared to what you responded with - I really don't mind backing up what I say. That is the beauty of forum discussions for the data remains in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear Bill, BFD, and Don't jump to conclusions. How long have you been discussing this with us? Couple of days? LOL Now that you've aggravated me, maybe I'll just let you stew for awhile. (While I frantically search for those posts on that old thread or threads so that I can please you, William.) -- Tommy Have you read this thread, yet, William? Maybe the answers you're demanding from me are hidden in it. -- Tommy Here's a Jack Martin frame, from Duncan's website, which I posted on the "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?" thread, this forum, way, way back in the day. Edited December 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Bill Miller said: The alleged Bill Shelley is wearing what appears to be a jacket, given how full it is. (Compare its girth to the shirt worn by alleged Lovelady.) Notice the geometric pattern of the jacket's fabric. Are there any photos of Shelley wearing a patterned jacket that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bill Miller said: Bart, I would like for those two guys to be Shelly and Lovelady, but without the contrast being bumped way up to give the appearance of a plaid shirt on one man is a man-made image - the coat is not plaid. It is quite a bit lower in the back to which the shirt of Loverlady's was not tailored that way. The manipulation of that image from its raw state has given a similar false plaid design to other peoples clothing too. Bill if you cannot see this obvious fact that it is Shelley and Lovelady, alongside with all the paper as mentioned in the link, then that is your loss. The main image i show is a print repro of the Couch film, the .ittle squared versions are various sharpening techniques. Which even show Lovelady's bald patch. Case closed. Your deep state of denial is duly noted, but do not expect me get dragged in further. I am of the opinion that this thread is going backwards and not forwards at all. All this stuff has been debated up to the hilt in there already and in other posts on this forum. Bill may I suggest you read this entire thread first! Edited December 18, 2016 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Bart, With respect this is not "Case Closed.” Bill Miller is a highly respected JFK assassination researcher. Photographic analysis is one of his skills. I agree one of the pillars of the Prayerman argument is whether these two individuals are Lovelady and Shelley. From what I can see all Bill is saying there is not the evidence in that image to conclusively argue to for it to be Lovelady or Shelley. I am well aware that Parayerman - Bart - is an important issue to you and I understand the work and effort you have put into this issue. I am well aware of the comments that are flying about at the ROKC site about this thread and - particularly - Bill's intrusion into the debate - something from what I can see you have not involved yourself in. There is a weakness in an argument when you suggest that if Bill cannot appreciate your point of view then it is his loss. I - and indeed the EF - have waited a long time for two serious minded researchers to extensively debate this issue - and that is what we now have. May i ask that you take this opportunity to debate this issue with Bill. I believe you are the most skilled proponent of the Prayerman issue. If you can convince Bill of your position then I do believe it may well be "Case Closed."Bill Miller is only raising the kinds of question any serious researcher would be expected to ask and - to be fair - would surely have a right to expect an answer. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) i want to know who thought this woman was Gloria Calvery as it is not her at all. So someone tell me where is Calvery post shooting in any films or photos that prevent her from having ran back to the steps of the TSBD as Shelley and Lovelady stated? Edited December 18, 2016 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 James, with respect as well. Anyone can interpret a photo, as we already know, even Brian Doyle can and look at the mess he has created during his short stay.That doesn't make it right. Furthermore and more importantly is the fact that Bill has not gone through this entire thread (something that was hinted/pointed out at by other members already), nor the many related threads posted this past year. By the looks of it. Instead he just barged in and posted partial statements which have already been dealt with or have been debunked years ago. That is taking a step back...........there is nothing new to be learned from the last 3 pages inside this thread. There is no weakness in my argument at all as a matter of fact I present several strong arguments and present better quality scans than anyone else has been trying to show that those two are Shelley and Lovelady, something Gerda did in 2012 initially. The only thing people have put up against it is they don't believe it. Not one real counter argument, supported by any real evidence, coming that has not been squashed yet already. Just observations. Not has anyone produced any photographs of alternative Shelley's and Lovelady's. Like Prayer Man many opponents have trouble believing the Shelley/Lovelady walk, simply coz it doesn't fit in their picture of the assassination and its aftermath. Bill should read my essay, already pointed out a page or so ago. And the same goes for the article regarding Shelley and Lovelady alongside w the pic. Then put evidence forward why my 'observations' are wrong. The ball is in his court, not mine. Have a great week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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