Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Gerry Simone]

1 hour ago, Bill Miller said:

Someone here went into my Photobucket and deleted the images concerning my Prayer Man work. The deed was done immediately after I posted them. The good news is they were only copies, so I will soon send you the images via private message.

You're the best. Thanks.  I use Tiny Pic but I registered an account there (1st time now to preserve uploaded pics longer) so that your uploaded photos are secure until you delete them yourself.  Not sure if you have a registered account at Photobucket but it might be a good idea.

[Gerry Simone]

55 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Gerry,

It's very interesting that you attended a conference featuring Buell Wesley Frazier recently.

I find it interesting that he had a son -- heart-warming, really, and that his son is now working with him on JFK research.

I agree that Frazier can help us resolve many minor issues -- like, was Prayer Man Oswald -- and what was the depth of your relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald?

Our first run gave us poor data -- LHO was not a talkative guy, and this was just a ride to work -- and Wesley was a teenager while Oswald was a grown man with a wife and children.   They had a lop-sided relationship.

They spoke small talk, usually.  But still waters run deep.  I am eager to see some emotional committment between the men.  I expect to see more from Buell towards lee, but he seems shy to say anything.   Lee liked Beulll because he was young, naive, ready to play pool, ready to hang around -- but there was no time --- too much work.  They rarely had lunch together.

Here was the relationship -- the teenager and the young married man   Then worked on book orded fiillers -- don't get them wrong -- are penalized for repeat work- that was the life..

:"But when ii comes to the JFK assassination -- all bets are off.    Truth is all there is.   Truth is what we will tell  -- i as far as I can.

'I did't help :LHO kill JFK.   I didn't transport that rifle -- at least I didn't know  I did --- He said it was curtain rods, and i believed him.'

I Liked Oswald.  He was a nice guy.   We were becoming friends.

I didn't remember him down on the front steps of the tSBD.   Show me the photogrpahs, I'll tell you all what i see.

Lee Oswald Could have been my friend.   Lee wask kind to me.  That;s what I miss.:

Regards

--Paul Trejo

 

Paul, the way you just described their relationship is how Wesley (that's what they called him back then) described it to us in November 2015.  Now in another thread in this forum for which I got involved (can't recall which one but it also was about Oswald), it forced me to see that DVD again, about 2 weeks ago.  But I remembered Frazier saying that he only knew Oswald for a short time i.e., from the time Oswald recently started working there IIRC.  Maybe just over a month or two.  He said Oswald kept to himself.  He also said Oswald used a vocabulary that was more extensive than everybody else, and when he used a word that his co-workers didn't understand, they just picked up a dictionary from the stock (lol) and looked up the word.  Oswald actually told Frazier that he liked him and that he treated him (Oswald) differently, with respect.  I think Frazier had seniority so Oswald was sort of his underling.  An interesting thing that Frazier said was that they were trying to pin the assassination on HIM too.  But he held his ground against those detectives.  As for the brown paper bag, he repeated that he didn't have a very good look at it but that it didn't seen unusual or heavy.  I'm going to watch that DVD for a second time now.  BTW, I was at Lancer in 2016 and the Newmans spoke.  Have that DVD too.

[Bill Miller]

22 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

I agree that Frazier can help us resolve many minor issues -- like, was Prayer Man Oswald -- and what was the depth of your relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald?

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I believe you and I, as well as many others, believe that Oswald was not Prayer Man. It is only those who have invested many man hours who hang onto the notion that PM was LHO. So Buell stating publicly that Lee was not standing there outside the front entrance to the TSBD with everyone else will cause those who want him to be PM will just say that Buell is now lying. That is a common position taken by people who first come up with a possible theory and then dismiss everyone and everything else who says or demonstrates otherwise.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Paul Trejo]

7 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

Paul, the way you just described their relationship is how Wesley (that's what they called him back then) described it to us in November 2015.  Now in another thread in this forum for which I got involved (can't recall which one but it also was about Oswald), it forced me to see that DVD again, about 2 weeks ago.  But I remembered Frazier saying that he only knew Oswald for a short time i.e., from the time Oswald recently started working there IIRC.  Maybe just over a month or two.  He said Oswald kept to himself.  He also said Oswald used a vocabulary that was more extensive than everybody else, and when he used a word that his co-workers didn't understand, they just picked up a dictionary from the stock (lol) and looked up the word.  Oswald actually told Frazier that he liked him and that he treated him (Oswald) differently, with respect.  I think Frazier had seniority so Oswald was sort of his underling.  An interesting thing that Frazier said was that they were trying to pin the assassination on HIM too.  But he held his ground against those detectives.  As for the brown paper bag, he repeated that he didn't have a very good look at it but that it didn't seen unusual or heavy.  I'm going to watch that DVD for a second time now.  BTW, I was at Lancer in 2016 and the Newmans spoke.  Have that DVD too.

Gerry,

My impressions of BWF come almost entirely from his WC testimony. Maybe 1% of my impressions come from the movie, "Four Days in November" (1964) which gives a glimmer into his personality.

I can see what you mean by lop-sided in the other direction.  LHO was the married man with children -- but BWF was the boy with the car.  He had a car; he could drive; plus he was resourceful enough to have a car so young.  LHO would respect that; yet BWF did not hold it over LHO, but was generous.

Had LHO lived longer, they could have become genuine friends.

BWF's portrait of LHO is genuine and also realistic, as I see it, because LHO's behavior at all his other places of employment was about the same.

At the Marines, said fellow Marine Kerry Thornley, LHO was resented semi-literate officers barking orders at him.  LHO respected learning; not muscle-heads.

According to his cousin, Marilyn Murrett, LHO would "read encyclopedias the way other people would read novels."

At Leslie Welding in Fort Worth, LHO did his job, but he didn't hang out with anybody, have lunch with anybody, or have conversations with anybody -- how could he, since these workers could barely read a newspaper, and talked about nothing but cars, sports, guns and women -- in rude terms.

At Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas LHO began to warm up to only one person -- his direct-coworker and fellow trainee, Dennis Ofstein -- because Dennis had also studied a little Russian.  But Dennis could not keep up with LHO.

At Reily Coffee Company in New Orleans, the situation was similar with Leslie Welding -- the greasing crew were muscle heads with no reading background whatsoever.  So LHO kept to himself, and he was despised for that.

At TSBD in Dallas, LHO did not cross anybody, but he did keep to himself.  Nobody there was adequate conversation for him.  BWF was at least kind to LHO, and LHO evidently appreciated the kindness.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

15 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Paul,

I believe you and I, as well as many others, believe that Oswald was not Prayer Man. It is only those who have invested many man hours who hang onto the notion that PM was LHO. So Buell stating publicly that Lee was not standing there outside the front entrance to the TSBD with everyone else will just say that Buell is now lying. That is a common position taken by people who first come up with a possible theory and then dismiss everyone else who says otherwise.

Bill,

I agree.  Insofar as BWF would plainly state that Prayer Man was not Oswald -- that would close the argument for me entirely, because I believe BWF implicitly.   There is no guile in the man. 

The multiplicity of eye-witness testimony in the negative would already be enough for any jury -- but even if we had only BWF to testify, that would be enough for me because of his simplicity and plain-speaking.

Anybody who thinks BWF was lying is just trying to salvage some pet bias.   Sadly, such CTers still exist.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 5, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Bill Miller]

On 4/4/2017 at 7:00 PM, Gerry Simone said:

All fair comments Paul, although I still feel that Prayer Man's hairline resembles Oswald's. 

Oswald was 2" or so taller than Lovelady. Yet when Lovelady is on the landing - he is a half of a head taller than PM.

[Gerry Simone]

3 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Oswald was 2" or so taller than Lovelady. Yet when Lovelady is on the landing - he is a half of a head taller than PM.

I couldn't find a photo demonstrating that (the one I have of PM and BL on the landing has PM in the shadows except for a white or bright coffee cup or mug that he seems to be holding at the level of his chest).  Can you assist please?  Thanks.

P.S.  Oh wait a minute.  I see the gif above.  But it's fast moving and I can't freeze frame in my mind when BL is on the landing to make a height comparison, although at that instant, PM seems to be drinking from that coffee cup or whatever.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Gerry Simone

[Alistair Briggs]

Just throwing this out there...

... Oswald was 5ft 9...

... it has been stated on here often that Lovelady was 5ft 8...

... according to an interview from Buell Wesley Frazier he says that he thought Lovelady was shorter than that and puts him at the most at 5ft 4, he also describes them as a 'Mutt and Jeff team'...

Anyway,

51 minutes ago, Gerry Simone said:

P.S.  Oh wait a minute.  I see the gif above.  But it's fast moving and I can't freeze frame in my mind when BL is on the landing to make a height comparison, although at that instant, PM seems to be drinking from that coffee cup or whatever.

Here is a screen shot of that,

 

[Gerry Simone]

12 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

Just throwing this out there...

... Oswald was 5ft 9...

... it has been stated on here often that Lovelady was 5ft 8...

... according to an interview from Buell Wesley Frazier he says that he thought Lovelady was shorter than that and puts him at the most at 5ft 4, he also describes them as a 'Mutt and Jeff team'...

Anyway,

Here is a screen shot of that,

 

Thanks very much for your help Alistair.  If PM is holding that cup to his mouth, then it seems that Lovelady is a tad taller.

(There must've been many photos taken that day, and I bet there are still some unseen by the public buried in an old photo album in someone's home.  If only people knew to check those.)

[Robin Unger]

[Robin Unger]

[Robin Unger]

Wiegman GIF

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/quaneeri2/AnimationWiegman.gif

[Robin Unger]

Darnell GIF

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a585/quaneeri2/Darnell-slow.gif

[Bill Miller]

6 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

I couldn't find a photo demonstrating that (the one I have of PM and BL on the landing has PM in the shadows except for a white or bright coffee cup or mug that he seems to be holding at the level of his chest). 

PM raises both hands in the animation and as I said - I know of no adult that needs to drink from a cup with both hands - that is something toddlers do a lot. I still think it is highly probable that PM took LBJ's photo when his car turned the corner and then lowered it after getting the pic.

[Bill Miller]

5 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

Just throwing this out there...

... Oswald was 5ft 9...

A solid 5'9" I would say.