Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Richard Hocking]

Cabluck shows a light dress and dark top, we are looking for a dark dress and light top. ?

Exactly, Robin. From what I can see, I do not believe the running woman in Darnell is Gloria Calvary (assuming the woman in Cabluck definitely is Calvary).

I am interested though in who the running woman in Darnell actually is.

She is either wearing a dark skirt with a lighter top, or a dark dress with a light sweater over the top. Did you get a chance to look at the women in the Croft photo?

My interest in the Cabluck timing is how it will mesh with the meeting between Calvary, Shelley and Lovelady.

[Robin Unger]

In the other Cabluck photo Haygood is seen still running towards the overpass wall.

so it must soon after the assassination. ( taken just prior to Bond 6 ) I won't guess at the timing in minutes. ?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Bjørn Gjerde]

Robin,

I think Cabluck was sitting/standing inside the White House Press Bus #1 when he took these photos (through a window of the bus). This bus is seen in about that position in Bond 5, Willis 6 and Towner 3, and possibly in Skaggs 6.

The composition of the motorcade is described in the linked dokument. Those in bus #1 are listed on page 25. It is stated that Cabluck left the bus and headed for the Grassy knoll. Bus # 2 is seen in Bond 7.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Motorcade%20Route/Item%2015.pdf

BG

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bjørn Gjerde

[Sean Murphy]

Yes Sean

This paragraph has certainly been

embellished past participle, past tense ofem·bel·lish (Verb)

Verb

2. .
4. Make (a statement or story) more interesting or entertaining by adding extra details, esp. ones that are not true.

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly [...]

Original

Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn ?

He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly ?

'Embellished' is right, Robin.

The second report is a blatant attempt to incorporate the "officer came in" element--the element so conspicuously missing from the joint Bookhout-Hosty report--in a way that is safe,

i.e. in a way that hides what is about to happen in a few seconds time here...

Bookhout's notes do not say "when [the] off[icer] came in room".

They say "when [the] off came in to [the] 1st fl[oor]"

[Bjørn Gjerde]

This tread has reminded me of the poem ‘Antigonish’ by William Hughes Mearns (1875–1965), also known as the song ‘The Little Man Who Wasn't There’ as performed by Glenn Miller:

Yesterday upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

When I came home last night at three

The man was waiting there for me

But when I looked around the hall

I couldn’t see him there at all!

Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!

Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door.

Last night I saw upon the stair

A little man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

Regards

Bjørn Gjerde

Edited September 12, 2013 by Bjørn Gjerde

[Steve Mcdonagh]

This tread has reminded me of the poem ‘Antigonish’ by William Hughes Mearns (1875–1965), also known as the song ‘The Little Man Who Wasn't There’ as performed by Glenn Miller:

Yesterday upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

When I came home last night at three

The man was waiting there for me

But when I looked around the hall

I couldn’t see him there at all!

Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!

Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door.

Last night I saw upon the stair

A little man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

Regards

Bjørn Gjerde

Hi Bjorn.

Do you believe that 'Prayer Man' could be Oswald?

Thanks.

[Bjørn Gjerde]

Yes.

BG

[Richard Hocking]

I am looking for some more information/photos of James Darnell. I believe there were references to 1-2 FBI reports.

There is also a WBAP TV film clip from 11/22/63 in which James Darnell interviews witness Jean Hill.

After leaping out of the Local Press Convertible, Darnell ran West on the South Side of Elm St towards the Knoll/Underpass and shot some film. There is a good chance he might appear in one of the many shots taken of that area after the assassination. Has anyone here recognized him in any of those photos?

I believe at one point he was very close to Mary Moorman.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9768

[Richard Hocking]

This tread has reminded me of the poem ‘Antigonish’ by William Hughes Mearns (1875–1965), also known as the song ‘The Little Man Who Wasn't There’ as performed by Glenn Miller:

Yesterday upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

When I came home last night at three

The man was waiting there for me

But when I looked around the hall

I couldn’t see him there at all!

Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!

Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door.

Last night I saw upon the stair

A little man who wasn’t there

He wasn’t there again today

Oh, how I wish he’d go away

Regards

Bjørn Gjerde

Hi Bjorn.

Do you believe that 'Prayer Man' could be Oswald?

Thanks.

What an appropriate poem for this thread.

[Richard Hocking]

Bernice Moore says Darnell is the man in the brown suit filming the bus in Bond #5.

http://jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=38&pos=13

[Ray Mitcham]

Interesting excerpt from Dave Rietzes site (from another forum)

Officer "E"

.......Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do......"

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

[Richard Hocking]

Interesting excerpt from Dave Rietzes site (from another forum)

Officer "E"

.......Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do......"

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

Another very interesting quote from Baker, Ray. Do you know when that interview took place? It is presented in the context of evidence for the HSCA, but I did not see a date for the quotes.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Richard Hocking]

Regarding the Bond #5 photo, Gary Mack says the man in the Brown suit and hat is actually Wiegman.

He also sent a film clip from a Don Cook/KTVT film. Gary said James Darnell is the guy with no hat, with the camera at 1:59 in the film clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kaVM2-9f3Q&feature=player_embedded

[Ray Mitcham]

Interesting excerpt from Dave Rietzes site (from another forum)

Officer "E"

.......Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do......"

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

Interesting excerpt from Dave Rietzes site (from another forum)

Officer "E"

.......Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do......"

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

Another very interesting quote from Baker, Ray. Do you know when that interview took place? It is presented in the context of evidence for the HSCA, but I did not see a date for the quotes.

Richard, the quote is from

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html on Dave Rietzes' site. Sorry, no further info, but thought it was of interest.

The Kennedy Assassination Tapes

A Rebuttal to the Acoustical Evidence Theory

by

James C. Bowles

[Robert Prudhomme]

Interesting excerpt from Dave Rietzes site (from another forum)

Officer "E"

.......Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do......"

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

Hello Ray

Thank you for posting this interview. Oddly enough, this is the only place I have ever seen Baker actually say the pigeons flew up from the roof of the TSBD. In his WC testimony, he makes a vague reference about the pigeons:

"Mr. BELIN - All right. When you heard the first shot or the first noise, what did you do and what did you see?

Mr. BAKER - Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.

Mr. BELIN - What would the building right in front of you be?

Mr. BAKER - It would be this Book Depository Building.

Mr. BELIN - That would be the building located on what corner of Houston and Elm?

Mr. BAKER - That would be the northwest corner.

Mr. BELIN - All right. And you thought it was either from that building or the building located where?

Mr. BAKER - On the northeast corner.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Did you see or hear or do anything else after you heard the first noise?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. As I was looking up, all these pigeons began to fly up to the top of the buildings here and I saw those come up and start flying around.

Mr. BELIN - From what building, if you know, do you think those pigeons came from?

Mr. BAKER - I wasn't sure, but I am pretty sure they came from the building right on the northwest corner."

Now, towards the end of his testimony, he describes being on the roof of the TSBD and almost tells the WC that the pigeons were flushed from the roof of the TSBD.

"Mr. BELIN - On the top of the School Book Depository Building on Exhibit 362. All right. Then what did you do?

Mr. BAKER - Then I came back down and I went and checked this building right here. It is an old deserted room there of some type.

Mr. BELIN - Some kind of a shack on the northeast corner of the building?

Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Out there. What did you see when you saw that shack?

Mr. BAKER - As I approached it, and looked under it, there wasn't anything under it, and you could tell that pigeons had been roosting there for sometime.

Mr. BELIN - All right. There were indications that pigeons had been roosting there?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Mr. BAKER - No indications that anyone would be around there.

Mr. BELIN - Did you see any pigeons there as you approached it?

Mr. BAKER - No, sir. They had all--at the time I kind of glanced and they were still flying around in the sky up there.

Mr. BELIN - What did you do?

SENATOR COOPER - You referred to pigeons, did you see some pigeon droppings?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.

SENATOR COOPER - Had they been disturbed in any way?

Mr. BAKER - No, sir."

"No, sir. They had all...." Had all what? Been flushed off of the roof by the sound of a gunshot?

Finally, we come to the interview you gave us.

"A little past half way down Houston (between Main and Elm), I heard the first shot. I could tell it came from somewhere in front of me, and high. As I looked up I noticed all the pigeons flushed off the top of the building on the corner ahead of me."

Finally, Baker tells us where the pigeons were at the time of the first shot. It may seem a bit strange that I am so interested in a flock of pigeons being flushed off the roof of the TSBD but, think about how unlikely this is. The 6th floor window was two storeys down from the roof, and there was a five foot parapet around the perimeter of the roof. If the pigeons were actually on the roof, and not the parapet, would they not be somewhat sheltered from the blast of a rifle pointed away from the TSBD?

What is far more probable, is a shot from the Dal-Tex Building pointed down Elm St. The pigeons on the roof would then be inside the cone of influence created by the muzzle blast of the rifle and would indeed have been flushed off the roof.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Robert Prudhomme