US/NATO/EU and the desperate subversion of Ukraine

[Evan Burton]

Spoilers and donkeys vote too. A move to a declaration of independence is important in the process of legitimisation. It still needs to be known whether the people in kiev claiming to be so are actually legitimate themselves. Mere statements of people doesn't make it so. Take a look at the map on wikis page on this. See that blob of red? That's the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. When they recognise that what happened in kiev was engineered by some very bad people who hijacked a legitimate popular revolt with identity slogans and then are shoveled into the already questionable 'interim government' in such important positions as heads of significant positions and the already questionable government then starts a process of effectively outlawing russian speakers and so on and becuase russia then becomes the bad guy... ? What do you expect? The wests refusal to deal with this point re role of 'ultra-nationals' (yes, read nazis) isn't winning them any points anywhere.

Here is where I wish Olaf Palme was alive and seeing his program for reaching a lasting stability implemented. If russia can be absolutely assured that russias territorial integrity, the way it wants to govern and its respectful inclusion in all areas of.social endeavour guided by well established rules of engagement the west would see that, no, the russians are NOT coming.

Anyway, back to votes. There can be little doubt that the ARC will enhance its independence and I'm sure the parliament will take into account the voting.

Hang on - are you saying the people are not informed enough to vote wisely and therefore we have to make sure they vote in their best interests?

Please tell me I have misunderstood.

[John Dolva]

Yes, I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood. I'm not sure at all what it is that I wrote that leads you to misunderstand. I don't understand your misunderstanding.

If it's the reference to spoiling and donkeying I'm sure you know you don't have to be uninformed to do that to register the third option. If it's something else then point it out, please.

edit typo

Edited March 14, 2014 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

"30-årig högerextremist jagas efter knivattacken i Malmö

...Aftonbladet kan i dag avslöja att mannen som polisen jagar efter attacken i Malmö är en välkänd 30-årig nazist....

...

Var nyligen i Ukraina

Den 30-årige nazisten har medverkat i flera högerextrema demonstrationer, bland annat i Helsingborg 2010, i Hässleholm 2009 och i Stockholm 2013.

Han var nyligen i Ukraina, något han rapporterade om på en högerextrem sajt.

Han är dömd för flera brott sedan tidigare. Bland annat för en misshandel av en lesbisk kvinna 2005...."

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article18536762.ab

: One (recently returned from Ukraine) of the nazis that attacked and seriously wounded people in Malmö a few days ago is being hunted by the police. The other two are in custody.

kultur Petter Larsson Efter knivattacken i Malmö: Ge polisen offensiva resurser mot den ökande högerextremismen

culture [Name] After Knifeattack(the) in Malmo: Give police(the) offensive resources against the increasing rightextremism.

edit format

Edited March 14, 2014 by John Dolva

[Steven Gaal]

It's a good point, John. But is it legal? Can the Crimea secede from the Ukraine? If not, should it be?

5 referendums that the West has not taken issue with

Published time: March 14, 2014 14:38

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Sealed packets containing invitations calling citizens to take part in the referendum on the status of Crimea, in Constutuency No.8 of Simferopol's Kievsky District.(RIA Novosti / Andrey Stenin)

Download video (27.6 MB)

The West has condemned the upcoming referendum in Crimea as “illegitimate” and is preparing sanctions against Russia. However, the West’s seemingly random policy on other referendums hints at a double standard in their governments’ rhetoric.

Crimea will vote Sunday whether to remain an autonomous region in Ukraine or to join with Russia. Western leaders have claimed the referendum is a farce and that Russian forces have occupied the region. Moscow, however, maintains there has been no such invasion and the referendum represents the Crimeans’ right to self-determination.

In the past the West has not batted an eyelid when countries sought to hold referendums and in some cases actively supported them.

Kosovo

Washington was quick off the mark with Kosovo, backing the region’s independence two years before the UN declared it was legal in 2008. NATO forces intervened 1999, carrying out a massive bomb campaign on targets in Serbia and in Kosovo. Human Rights Watch reported that over 500 civilians were killed in NATO’s incursion into the former Yugoslavia.

Protesters hold banners against the the EU-brokered Kosovo accord and call for a referendum on the deal as they march in Belgrade April 22, 2013.(Reuters / Djordje Kojadinovic)

South Sudan

After a long and bloody conflict, South Sudan separated from the north in 2011 to become the world’s youngest nation state. Then-US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton hailed the move as a historic day and “a testament to the tireless efforts of the people of South Sudan in their search for peace.” Washington has since spent around $600 million in building the new nation, but has frozen payments because of an escalation of violence in the fledgling nation.

People wave South Sudanese flags as they celebrate referendum results in town of Abyei October 31, 2013.(Reuters / Goran Tomasevic)

The Falklands

The UK government held a referendum in overseas territory the Falklands in 2013 to ascertain whether the islanders wished to remain a British colony. In spite of Argentinian protests, the West did not move to intervene and stop the vote. Argentina lays claim to the Islands, calling them the Malvinas. In the referendum an overwhelming 98.8 percent of the Falklands population voted to remain British.

Islanders celebrate after the annouce of the referendum's result in Port Stanley, Falkland (Malvinas for Argentina) Islands, on March 11, 2013.(AFP Photo / Tony Chater)

Scotland

The Scottish government has scheduled a referendum for September 2014 to ask its population whether it wants independence from the United Kingdom. Britain has said if Scotland breaks away it will not be able to use the pound and will have to reapply for EU membership. The Scottish government, for its part, has resolved to eject all British nuclear weapons from the country should its population vote to be separate.

Pro-independence supporters as they gather for a rally in Edinburgh on September 21, 2013.(AFP Photo / Andy Buchanan)

Catalonia

The autonomous Spanish region of Catalonia has announced it will hold a vote to decide on whether it wants independence from Spain in September. Madrid has slammed the referendum as illegal and in violation of the Spanish constitution because it questions Spanish sovereignty. Spain’s crippling financial crisis has led to a growing separatist movement in Catalonia over the last few years.

Catalans against the region's independence hold a Spanish flag during a demonstration for the unity of Spain and against the independence of Catalonia marking the Spanish constitution Day in Barcelona on December 6, 2013.(AFP Photo/ Josep Lago)

Edited March 14, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[John Dolva]

RT:

"A crucial referendum on either becoming an integral part of Russia or staying within Ukraine on conditions of wide autonomy has kicked off in the Republic of Crimea despite international condemnation and pressure from Kiev.

The polling stations of 27 regional Crimea election commissions are going to be open all day long, starting from 8am till 8pm (0600 GMT- 1800 GMT). Up to 1.5 million – this is the number of ballots printed for the referendum – Crimea citizens are expected come to cast their votes in favor of independence or against it.

Some 10,000 members of the Crimean military recently formed from self-defense squads, and over 5,000 police officers are ensuring the referendum goes smoothly."

"Crimean authorities have reported about 135 registered international observers have arrived from 23 countries, including Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Latvia and Poland. Members of the EU and national European parliaments, international law experts and human rights activists together with 1,240 local observers are monitoring the voting at ballot stations. Mass media in the peninsula is represented by 623 accredited journalists from 169 international media outlets."

[John Dolva]

"30-årig högerextremist jagas efter knivattacken i Malmö

...Aftonbladet kan i dag avslöja att mannen som polisen jagar efter attacken i Malmö är en välkänd 30-årig nazist....

...

Var nyligen i Ukraina

Den 30-årige nazisten har medverkat i flera högerextrema demonstrationer, bland annat i Helsingborg 2010, i Hässleholm 2009 och i Stockholm 2013.

Han var nyligen i Ukraina, något han rapporterade om på en högerextrem sajt.

Han är dömd för flera brott sedan tidigare. Bland annat för en misshandel av en lesbisk kvinna 2005...."

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article18536762.ab

: One (recently returned from Ukraine) of the nazis that attacked and seriously wounded people in Malmö a few days ago is being hunted by the police. The other two are in custody.

kultur Petter Larsson Efter knivattacken i Malmö: Ge polisen offensiva resurser mot den ökande högerextremismen

culture [Name] After Knifeattack(the) in Malmo: Give police(the) offensive resources against the increasing rightextremism.

edit format

Thousands gather in Malmo for demonstration against fascism :

LIVE-TV : http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/live/3/

[John Dolva]

The referendum appears to have been peaceful, inclusive and definite with crimeans voting to become part of the Russian Federation.

No doubt western media will continue spinning.

_______________

Meanwhile Ukraine spirals into chaos and the west continues to urge ukrainians to stay on this course. It is becoming increasingly clear that unless the wests 'coalition of the willing' does not clearly distance itself from the fascist elements stability will be hard to find.

[John Dolva]

RT:

The Republic of Crimea has addressed the UN seeking recognition as a sovereign state and called on Russia to integrate it into the Russian Federation. 96.77 percent of the Crimean population voted ‘for’ the integration in a referendum.

"The Republic of Crimea intends to build its relations with other states on the basis of equality, peace, mutual neighborly cooperation, and other generally agreed principles of political, economic and cultural cooperation between states," the legislation says.

Crimea was declared an independent sovereign state, the Republic of Crimea, on Monday, the autonomous Ukrainian regional parliament's website stated. The Supreme Council of Crimea unanimously voted to integrate of the region into Russia.

Ukrainian military units on Crimean territory are to be disbanded, with the military personnel allowed to stay and live on the peninsula, Interfax reported Crimean Supreme Council chairman Vladimir Konstantinov as saying.

His comments came after more than 500 troops left Sevastopol to register at temporary checkpoints.

The Crimean Parliament also ruled that Ukrainian state property in the peninsula will become the property of the Republic of Crimea, Kryminform news agency reported.

The Crimean Parliament will remain the supreme legislative body of the republic until September 2015, or until a decision is made to integrate Crimea into the Russian Federation.

[John Dolva]

spiegel.de:

"Germany shuns the right-wing extremist party NPD at home. But even though the Ukrainian nationalist party Svoboda maintains tight links to the NPD, it has received indirect support from Berlin."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/indirect-berlin-support-for-ukrainian-right-wing-extremists-svoboda-a-959073.html

[John Dolva]

I remember seeing a doc last century about Olaf Palme. Part of it focused on and explained Palmes theory on which he based his approach on. I remember rather sceptically watching Kissinger have a say on that. Being somewhat critical of him for other reasons , while he seemed to have a good grasp on the matter I found it hard to believe he fully meant what he had to say about Palme. However, Kissingers recent comments about Ukraine and Crimea shows he does indeed deserve some credit. His statements on the matter need to at least be considered by stalwart pro-washington persons.

There are numerous other very good articles appearing on this matter, often on a sidebar or in the 'culture' section of papers. Within all of it there is definitely a way out of the apparent stalemate.

One thing that I think everybody can agree on is that the people of the new Republic of Crimea resoundingly voted against fascism. Good on them.

edit typo

Edited March 18, 2014 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

Putin live now on RT :

"Crimea will never be fascist. (prolonged applause) "

[John Dolva]

" It's only the people who are the source of power. "

[John Dolva]

Documents are signed.

The Republic of Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation.

-didn't catch the full wording but I understand it is as noted.

[John Dolva]

Documents are signed.

The Republic of Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation.

-didn't catch the full wording but I understand it is as noted.

I heard one thing, then checked an other countrys translation which was as I heard but then RT writes that a signing was made to recognise the RC and the BBC says :

"Mr Putin and Crimea's Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov then signed the bill to make the Black Sea peninsula a part of Russia.

The bill must now be approved by the constitutional court and then ratified by parliament.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Moscow says the process is likely to be completed by the end of the week." which sounds right. I suppose while it's a fait accompli there is great care to, as usual, follow procedure.

[Steven Gaal]

• President George H. W. Bush promised Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that – if the Soviets broke up the Soviet Union and dissolved the Warsaw Pact – then NATO would not move into those former Soviet countries. This assured the Soviets that NATO would not encircle Russia. But Bill Clinton broke America’s promise, and the U.S. has pursued a campaign of encircling Russia ever since.

  +++++++++++++++++++++

  Putin says U.S. guided by 'the rule of the gun' in foreign policy

  MOSCOW Tue Mar 18, 2014

  MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin accused the United States on Monday of being guided in its foreign policy not by international law but by the "rule of the gun."

  "Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun," he told a joint session of parliament.

  "They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones. That they can decide the destinies of the world, that it is only them who can be right." (YES THE NEOCON THEOLOGY,Gaal)