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Greg Burnham

ABC News: JFK Limo Stopped

43 posts in this topic

Thomas and Pat

And the swerve?

Robert,

I always swerve when I think my car is being shot at.

Kind of an involuntary reaction, I guess.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Why is this topic even debatable? ALL of the films--from Zapruder to Nix to Bronson--prove that the witnesses who said the limousine stopped were mistaken. The car almost came to a stop, but it didn't come to a full stop. Simple as that. And the car didn't swerve or zig-zag either.

Are there really conspiracy theorists out there who think ALL of those home movies were altered?

What a job that was for the Film Fakers Society Of America, Inc.

The JFK CTers are a hilarious lot. Even when there's FILMED proof (multiplied by THREE films, no less), the conspiracy crowd still isn't convinced. Not even close to being convinced, in fact. Hilarious.

It's similar to what I've said in the past concerning Oswald's guilt -- the more evidence there is against the real killer (Oswald), the more innocent he seems to become in the minds of many conspiracy theorists. Now if that's not convoluted logic, I don't know what is.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/jfk-assassination-films.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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To show that there’s more than just one side to the “Limo Stopped” story, here is an interview with assassination eyewitness Pierce Allman, a WFAA newsman, who said —— “The car kept going; the car did not stop.”

Also note Allman’s account of the spacing of the "THREE" shots he heard —— “The shots didn’t seem rapid at all. They were three well-spaced, reverberating shots.”

This interview with Allman was aired live on WFAA-Radio in Dallas less than 90 minutes after President Kennedy was shot:

Of course, the whole "Limo Stopped" topic that is constantly being dredged up by conspiracy theorists is ridiculous in the first place, because everybody agrees (and the films confirm this too) that the President's car was moving at a snail's pace the entire time it was on Elm Street. It was only moving at about 11 MPH even BEFORE the first shot was fired. That's incredibly slow to begin with.

So I guess it must be the contention of the conspiracists that driver William Greer was deliberately driving at a super-slow speed all along Elm Street, and he then (per the CTers) completely stopped the car in order for the kill shot to be achieved with greater accuracy (even though the Nix and Zapruder films prove the car did not completely stop).

Such accusations against SS agent Greer are despicable, of course. And the theory about the Zapruder Film being altered to "remove" the alleged limo stop is equally as ludicrous, because such a theory requires Orville Nix's film to be altered in the exact same manner. And as the following video demonstrates, the Zapruder and Nix films are in perfect "The limo slowed down and almost came to a stop, but it did not come to a complete stop" harmony:

DVP's JFK Archives / Assassination Arguments (Part 786)

Quote by Pierce Allman.

"A very dramatic thing, I can't forget, it at all, I keep hearing the shots. And on the third one the President then - instead of slumping forward it looked like he was, he - he jerked back or was thrown back a little bit. And Mrs. Kennedy then was halfway out of the seat and a Secret Service man - I presume he was - a Secret Service man was then over Mrs. Kennedy. And the car had stopped only momentarily and then immediately sped away at top speed. "

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Thomas

Greer said he swerved, witnesses saw the limo swerve to the left, does the Zapruder film show a swerve?

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Ray,

“The car kept going; the car did not stop.” -- Pierce Allman; 11/22/63 @ approx. 2 PM CST

So, who should we believe here -- Pierce Allman in 1963 or Pierce Allman in 2013?

~shrug~

Edited by David Von Pein

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There are FOUR films showing the Limo slowing down with no stop.

Yes, you're right, Duncan. I forgot about Marie Muchmore's film. Thanks.

In fact, after I just now looked again at a slow motion version of Muchmore's footage, that particular film probably is the BEST film to illustrate the fact that the President's car did not come to a complete stop. The angle is just right to measure some degree of FORWARD MOVEMENT of JFK's limousine throughout the key point in time in Muchmore's film. And there is always forward movement. The car does not completely stop, making Muchmore's film perfectly consistent with all three of the other films (Zapruder, Nix, and Bronson):

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/jfk-assassination-films.html#Muchmore

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dave

Clint Hill said he saw a large hole in the back of JFK's head when he testified to the Warren Commission in 1964. Should we believe Clint Hill in 1964, or Clint Hill in 2014?

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Robert,

Jean Hill said "I didn't see any person fire the weapon, I only heard it" on November 22, 1963. She later said she saw a gunman on the Knoll firing a rifle at President Kennedy.

Should we believe Jean Hill in 1963, or Jean Hill post-Oliver Stone's movie?

This is fun. Your turn, Bob. Use a Parkland "BOH" witness this time. Carrico would be a good one. He decided to completely change his tune in later years about the huge hole in JFK's cranium (changing from a "back of the head" witness to a "side of the head" one).

I get to use Domingo Benavides for my next "wishy-washy" witness. He first says he couldn't possibly identify Tippit's killer. Then, more than three years later on CBS-TV, he's absolutely positive that Oswald killed Tippit. (Go figure witnesses.)

Edited by David Von Pein

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Charles Brehm, in 1986, also said the car "took off in a zig-zag motion". Several people said they saw things that never happened that day. And the FOUR films prove those people never saw the things they said they saw regarding JFK's car.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dave

You know what I love about Lame Nuts? It's like playing Whack-a-Mole; you bust one head and three more pop up with more stupid arguments.

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Dave

You know what I love about Lame Nuts? It's like playing Whack-a-Mole; you bust one head and three more pop up with more stupid arguments.

Robert,

Do you think that everyone who believes that the Zapruder film was not altered is a "Lone Nut"?

--Tommy :sun

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You know what I love about Lame Nuts? It's like playing Whack-a-Mole; you bust one head and three more pop up with more stupid arguments.

Name the last three "stupid Lame Nut arguments", Bob.

If any one of them tops the "Multi-Gunmen, Lone Patsy" plot endorsed by almost all Internet conspiracy theorists on the "stupid" scale, I'll gleefully give back my entire CIA Disinfo salary for 2014.

Good luck.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dave

Lame Nut Argument #1:

A goodly number of witnesses all mistakenly saw the limo come to a stop, and a goodly number of that group mistakenly saw the limo swerve to the left.

Mass hallucination and mass hypnosis theories belong in a comic book, Dave, not a serious discussion about the JFK assassination.

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Lame Nut Argument #1:

A goodly number of witnesses all mistakenly saw the limo come to a stop, and a goodly number of that group mistakenly saw the limo swerve to the left.

Mass hallucination and mass hypnosis theories belong in a comic book, Dave, not a serious discussion about the JFK assassination.

Lame Conspiracy Argument #1:

ALL FOUR of these home movies have been "faked" or "altered" to remove a full limo stop and/or a swerve of the car: The Zapruder Film, the Nix Film, the Muchmore Film, and the Bronson Film.

Mass "impossible fakery" belongs in a Twilight Zone episode (or a loony bin), not in a realistic debate concerning the events that took place on Elm Street on November 22, 1963.

What's Argument #2, Bob?

Edited by David Von Pein

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