Question for Doug Caddy

[David Boylan]

Doug,

Is this the film you've alluded to in the past? Is this only a portion of it?

http://jfkfacts.org

Dave

[David Butler]

For anyone who doesn't know and is interested that is Dave Powers film indeed taken from the follow up car…..Seemingly he ran out of film before they got to Dealey Plaza

[Douglas Caddy]

No, this is not the film. My information was based on disclosure from an intelligence agent who had seen the film. The film was of the assassination of JFK and according to the agent it clearly showed Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis being present at the time of the assassination. The agent said it would be disclosed publicly around the time of the 50th anniversary of the event but for whatever reason it was not. The was a flurry of publicity at the time about a new film of the assassination being offered for sale by a Texas real estate person but the news about that film soon petered out.

I wonder how many people alive today were of age when the assassination took place. It could be that disclosure of such a film now would by met by the general public with a big yawn as it along with the Vietnam War and Watergate are subjects about which they have never heard anything because they are ancient history.

Bill Hicks had a great line in his routine on the assassination about someone who said to him: what is the big deal, it happened a long time ago? Hicks response to this was: well, don't talk to me about Jesus then.

[Thomas Graves]

No, this is not the film. My information was based on disclosure from an intelligence agent who had seen the film. The film was of the assassination of JFK and according to the agent it clearly showed Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis being present at the time of the assassination. The agent said it would be disclosed publicly around the time of the 50th anniversary of the event but for whatever reason it was not. The was a flurry of publicity at the time about a new film of the assassination being offered for sale by a Texas real estate person but the news about that film soon petered out.

I wonder how many people alive today were of age when the assassination took place. It could be that disclosure of such a film now would by met by the general public with a big yawn as it along with the Vietnam War and Watergate are subjects about which they have never heard anything because they are ancient history.

Bill Hicks had a great line in his routine on the assassination about someone who said to him: what is the big deal, it happened a long time ago? Hicks response to this was: well, don't talk to me about Jesus then.

I wonder if it was the allegedly missing original Orville Nix film?

--Tommy

Edited October 3, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[David Andrews]

Doug, perhaps too much to ask, but did the intel agent say where in Dealey Hunt and Sturgis were filmed? Was it during or after the shooting?

[Douglas Caddy]

It was during the shooting.

If one goes back to the original posting on this particular topic, there is a reply by Thomas Graves to a comment I made in which he said that the post office building that overlooks both Dealey Plaza and the school book depository building would have been an ideal place for an intelligence agency to have filmed the event because of having prior knowledge of it going down. I believe that Tommy even mentioned that the building's postmaster was a Warren Commission witness. I shall try to find the original posting and post the link here.

[Thomas Graves]

It was during the shooting.

If one goes back to the original posting on this particular topic, there is a reply by Thomas Graves to a comment I made in which he said that the post office building that overlooks both Dealey Plaza and the school book depository building would have been an ideal place for an intelligence agency to have filmed the event because of having prior knowledge of it going down. I believe that Tommy even mentioned that the building's postmaster was a Warren Commission witness. I shall try to find the original posting and post the link here.

Douglas,

Yes. That would be Dallas Postal Inspector and FBI "T-7" informant Harry D. Holmes whose fifth-floor office was on the north-east corner (the corner closest to the camera in the photo below) of theTerminal Annex Building, which was, and still is, on the south side of Dealey Plaza, directly across from the Texas School Book Depository.

Harry was a multi-faceted guy. LOL http://www.jfklancer.com/Holmes.html

He testified that from his office window he and some others watched, with his binoculars, the motorcade pass through the plaza. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

When I interviewed, a few years ago in San Diego, a since-deceased, long-time ONI Special Agent who was born in Texas, who had often traveled from southern California to Dallas on ONI business, who was a personal friend of DPD polygraph officer Paul Bentley ("The Man Who Arrested Oswald"), and who was an acquaintance / colleague of several other police officers, FBI agents, ONI agents, etc, in Dallas), the retired ONI Special Agent told me that he "very probably" conducted, by himself, the ONI's "investigation" of Oswald at Marine Corps Air Station El Toro in late 1959 ("because he was one of the ONI's best investigators", and "El Toro was in his territory"), but that if he did so it was with his having no stenographer with him, his not wearing a suit, and his not being with a bunch of other suited agents (all three things reported by John Newman in Oswald and the CIA as happening during the probable CIA investigation of Oswald at El Toro which, according to Newman, took place shortly after Oswald "defected" and threatened to give the Russians some military secrets which probably involved the CIA 's U-2 spy plane).

But the important thing as far as this thread is concerned is the fact that when I asked the retired ONI Special Agent where the ONI office was located in Dallas in 1963, he said "It was in the post office building. Across the street. It was in the building Kennedy was killed from."

I was tempted to remind him that, according to conventional wisdom, JFK was shot from the TSBD, but I "bit my tongue" and instead mentioned that JFK was killed in Dealey Plaza and that the Terminal Annex Building was on the south side of Dealey Plaza and it had a post office in it. When I said these things, the former ONI special agent looked a bit like "a deer caught in the headlights", and he just said "yes" and sat there staring at me.

Months later I was thinking about what he had said and realized that maybe he hadn't meant that Kennedy was actually shot from the Terminal Annex Building, but that that was where the assassination command center was situated, which in turn reminded me of Harry D. Holmes and his colleagues watching the assassination from his fifth-floor, north-east corner office window(s) which afforded excellent views of the TSBD, the Dal-Tex Building, the Grassy Knoll, the Triple Overpass, the Railway Yards, etc.

And I was also reminded of Harry's binoculars which, strangely enough, Warren Commission lawyer David Belin seemed to have been aware of before he questioned Holmes. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

The fact that the Terminal Annex Building is very near where Kennedy was killed, added to the fact that the retired ONI Special Agent told me, in so many words, that the Dallas ONI office was in the Terminal Annex Building is very interesting given the fact that Oswald was probably sent to Russia in 1959 by the ONI as part of its "false defector program"...

So now, Douglas, your recent posts are making me wonder if Harry D. Holmes and "friends" in that federal building weren't just watching the assassination through binoculars, but were communicating from that office and / or filming the assassination, as well. If so, then maybe that was the film in which the intelligence agent with whom you communicated noticed E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis.

I think a good reason for the bad guys to film the assassination like that would be to allow them to study the faces in the crowd later to help them determine which of the witnesses might need to be intimidated or eliminated, and also to see if any other uninvited bad guys had been in attendance.

For what it's worth, I actually did a little research (research?!) about a year ago and found out that the Navy had a "Recruitment Office" in the Terminal Annex Building around 1963.

A mail carrier by the name of Mark Bell not only took some ground-level footage before and immediately after the assassination, but also some post-assassination footage of the TSBD and Dealey Plaza, etc, from an upper floor of the Terminal Annex Building before returning to work that day. What he shot from there shows pretty much the same view that Holmes and friends had from their fifth floor window and is viewable from 1:39 thru 2:10 (and elsewhere towards the end of the clip) in the "Bell Film" as posted on the following website:

http://altereddimensions.net/2013/multiple-different-jfk-assassination-films-each-shown-normal-speed-followed-by-12-speed-slow-motion-version

--Tommy

Edited October 6, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It was during the shooting.

If one goes back to the original posting on this particular topic, there is a reply by Thomas Graves to a comment I made in which he said that the post office building that overlooks both Dealey Plaza and the school book depository building would have been an ideal place for an intelligence agency to have filmed the event because of having prior knowledge of it going down. I believe that Tommy even mentioned that the building's postmaster was a Warren Commission witness. I shall try to find the original posting and post the link here.

Douglas,

Yes. That would be Dallas Postal Inspector and FBI "T-7" informant Harry D. Holmes whose fifth-floor office was on the north-east corner (the corner closest to the camera in the photo below) of theTerminal Annex Building, which was, and still is, on the south side of Dealey Plaza, directly across from the Texas School Book Depository.

Harry was a multi-faceted guy. LOL http://www.jfklancer.com/Holmes.html

He testified that from his office window he and some others watched, with his binoculars, the motorcade pass through the plaza. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

When I interviewed, a few years ago in San Diego, a since-deceased, long-time ONI Special Agent who was born in Texas, who had often traveled from southern California to Dallas on ONI business, who was a personal friend of DPD polygraph officer Paul Bentley ("The Man Who Arrested Oswald"), and who was an acquaintance / colleague of several other police officers, FBI agents, ONI agents, etc, in Dallas), the retired ONI Special Agent told me that he "very probably" conducted, by himself, the ONI's "investigation" of Oswald at Marine Corps Air Station El Toro in late 1959 ("Because I was one of the ONI's best investigators", and "El Toro was in my territory"), but that if he did so it was with his having no stenographer with him, his not wearing a suit, and his not being with a bunch of other suited agents (all of which reported by John Newman in Oswald and the CIA as happening during the probable CIA investigation of Oswald at El Toro which, according to Newman, took place shortly after Oswald "defected" and threatened to give the Russians military secrets which probably involved the CIA 's U-2 spy plane).

But the important thing as far as this thread is concerned is that when I asked the retired ONI Special Agent where the ONI office was located in Dallas in 1963, he said, "It was in the post office building. Across the street. It was in the building that Kennedy was killed from."

I was sorely tempted to remind him that, according to conventional wisdom, JFK was shot from the Texas School Book Depository and that it didn't have a post office in it, but I "bit my tongue" and just said that JFK was killed in Dealey Plaza and that the large Terminal Annex Building was on the south side of Dealey Plaza and it had a post office in it. When I said these things, the former ONI special agent looked a bit like "a deer caught in the headlights". He just said "yes" and sat there staring at me.

Months later I was thinking about what he had said and realized that maybe he hadn't meant that Kennedy was actually shot from the Terminal Annex Building, but that that was where the assassination command center was situated, which in turn reminded me of Harry D. Holmes and his colleagues watching the assassination from his fifth-floor, north-east corner office window(s) which afforded excellent views of the TSBD, the Dal-Tex Building, the Grassy Knoll, the Triple Overpass, the Railway Yards, etc.

And I was also reminded of Harry's binoculars which, strangely enough, Warren Commission lawyer David Belin seemed to have been aware of before he questioned Holmes. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

The fact that the Terminal Annex Building is very near where Kennedy was killed, added to the fact that the retired ONI Special Agent told me, in so many words, that the Dallas ONI office was in the Terminal Annex Building is very interesting given the fact that Oswald was probably sent to Russia in 1959 by the ONI as part of its "false defector program"...

So now, Douglas, your recent posts are making me wonder if Harry D. Holmes and "friends" in that federal building weren't just watching the assassination through binoculars, but were communicating from that office and / or filming the assassination, as well. If so, then maybe that was the film in which the intelligence agent with whom you communicated noticed E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis.

I think a good reason for the bad guys to film the assassination like that would be to allow them to capture the faces in the crowd and study them later to determine which of these witnesses might need to be intimidated or eliminated, and also to see if any other uninvited bad guys had been in attendance.

For what it's worth, I actually did a little research (research??!) about a year ago and found out that the Navy had a "Recruitment Office" in the Terminal Annex Building around 1963.

A mail carrier by the name of Mark Bell not only took some ground-level footage before and immediately after the assassination, but also some post-assassination footage of the TSBD and Dealey Plaza, etc, from an upper floor of the Terminal Annex Building before returning to work that day. What he shot from there shows pretty much the same view that Holmes and friends had from their fifth floor window and is viewable from 1:39 thru 2:10 (and elsewhere towards the end of the clip) in the "Bell Film" as posted on the following website:

http://altereddimensions.net/2013/multiple-different-jfk-assassination-films-each-shown-normal-speed-followed-by-12-speed-slow-motion-version

--Tommy

edited of course and bumped

PS After flattering me profusely before the interview for my "high intelligence" and "varied life experiences" (and suggesting that I go to work for the CIA), when I was getting ready to leave he said, "I'm beginning to think you're a double agent."

LOL

Edited October 6, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It was during the shooting.

If one goes back to the original posting on this particular topic, there is a reply by Thomas Graves to a comment I made in which he said that the post office building that overlooks both Dealey Plaza and the school book depository building would have been an ideal place for an intelligence agency to have filmed the event because of having prior knowledge of it going down. I believe that Tommy even mentioned that the building's postmaster was a Warren Commission witness. I shall try to find the original posting and post the link here.

Douglas,

Yes. That would be Dallas Postal Inspector and FBI "T-7" informant Harry D. Holmes whose fifth-floor office was on the north-east corner (the corner closest to the camera in the photo below) of theTerminal Annex Building, which was, and still is, on the south side of Dealey Plaza, directly across from the Texas School Book Depository.

Harry was a multi-faceted guy. LOL http://www.jfklancer.com/Holmes.html

He testified that from his office window he and some others watched, with his binoculars, the motorcade pass through the plaza. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

When I interviewed, a few years ago in San Diego, a since-deceased, long-time ONI Special Agent who was born in Texas, who had often traveled from southern California to Dallas on ONI business, who was a personal friend of DPD polygraph officer Paul Bentley ("The Man Who Arrested Oswald"), and who was an acquaintance / colleague of several other police officers, FBI agents, ONI agents, etc, in Dallas), the retired ONI Special Agent told me that he "very probably" conducted, by himself, the ONI's "investigation" of Oswald at Marine Corps Air Station El Toro in late 1959 ("Because I was one of the ONI's best investigators", and "El Toro was in my territory"), but that if he did so it was with his having no stenographer with him, his not wearing a suit, and his not being with a bunch of other suited agents (all of which reported by John Newman in Oswald and the CIA as happening during the probable CIA investigation of Oswald at El Toro which, according to Newman, took place shortly after Oswald "defected" and threatened to give the Russians military secrets which probably involved the CIA 's U-2 spy plane).

But the important thing as far as this thread is concerned is that when I asked the retired ONI Special Agent where the ONI office was located in Dallas in 1963, he said, "It was in the post office building. Across the street. It was in the building that Kennedy was killed from."

I was sorely tempted to remind him that, according to conventional wisdom, JFK was shot from the Texas School Book Depository and that it didn't have a post office in it, but I "bit my tongue" and just said that JFK was killed in Dealey Plaza and that the large Terminal Annex Building was on the south side of Dealey Plaza and it had a post office in it. When I said these things, the former ONI special agent looked a bit like "a deer caught in the headlights". He just said "yes" and sat there staring at me.

Months later I was thinking about what he had said and realized that maybe he hadn't meant that Kennedy was actually shot from the Terminal Annex Building, but that that was where the assassination command center was situated, which in turn reminded me of Harry D. Holmes and his colleagues watching the assassination from his fifth-floor, north-east corner office window(s) which afforded excellent views of the TSBD, the Dal-Tex Building, the Grassy Knoll, the Triple Overpass, the Railway Yards, etc.

And I was also reminded of Harry's binoculars which, strangely enough, Warren Commission lawyer David Belin seemed to have been aware of before he questioned Holmes. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

The fact that the Terminal Annex Building is very near where Kennedy was killed, added to the fact that the retired ONI Special Agent told me, in so many words, that the Dallas ONI office was in the Terminal Annex Building is very interesting given the fact that Oswald was probably sent to Russia in 1959 by the ONI as part of its "false defector program"...

So now, Douglas, your recent posts are making me wonder if Harry D. Holmes and "friends" in that federal building weren't just watching the assassination through binoculars, but were communicating from that office and / or filming the assassination, as well. If so, then maybe that was the film in which the intelligence agent with whom you communicated noticed E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis.

I think a good reason for the bad guys to film the assassination like that would be to allow them to capture the faces in the crowd and study them later to determine which of these witnesses might need to be intimidated or eliminated, and also to see if any other uninvited bad guys had been in attendance.

For what it's worth, I actually did a little research (research??!) about a year ago and found out that the Navy had a "Recruitment Office" in the Terminal Annex Building around 1963.

A mail carrier by the name of Mark Bell not only took some ground-level footage before and immediately after the assassination, but also some post-assassination footage of the TSBD and Dealey Plaza, etc, from an upper floor of the Terminal Annex Building before returning to work that day. What he shot from there shows pretty much the same view that Holmes and friends had from their fifth floor window and is viewable from 1:39 thru 2:10 (and elsewhere towards the end of the clip) in the "Bell Film" as posted on the following website:

http://altereddimensions.net/2013/multiple-different-jfk-assassination-films-each-shown-normal-speed-followed-by-12-speed-slow-motion-version

--Tommy

edited of course and bumped

PS After flattering me profusely before the interview for my "high intelligence" and "varied life experiences" (and suggesting that I go to work for the CIA), when I was getting ready to leave he said, "I'm beginning to think you're a double agent."

LOL

Bumped

[Ron Ecker]

I don't understand how Hunt and Sturgis could be identified anywhere in the plaza in a film taken from that distance. Is the idea that two men are seen on the grassy knoll, for example, and the bad guys filming the assassination simply knew it was Hunt and Sturgis? Or is the idea that the person with the camera was panning around in the command center, with Hunt and Sturgis seen there in the room?

[Greg Burnham]

I agree, Ron.

Indeed, I highly doubt that either Sturgis or Hunt would have been anywhere near DP that day. The planners were too meticulous about details to have allowed their presence. If their performance at Watergate (getting caught) is any indication of their prowess during "Operations"--had they been involved in Dallas--JFK would have lived to a ripe old age.

[Ron Ecker]

I have a strong suspicion that this spook is E. Howard Hunt. Either that or it's a literal spook (some kind of specter that showed up that day).

[Thomas Graves]

I have a strong suspicion that this spook is E. Howard Hunt. Either that or it's a literal spook (some kind of specter that showed up that day).

Ron,

This dude's ears do seem to stick out like Hunt's did before he had cosmetic surgery done on them.

--Tommy

Edited October 9, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[David Andrews]

I thought about posting this picture, but I questioned whether this guy would have had opportunity to walk over from the Post Office building in time to be in Cancellare's photo, and in step with or slightly ahead of three men who are seen in the Main-Houston corner photos (the Rip Robertson-Adrian O'Hare lookalikes, and the baldng man some people peg as Diaz Lanz).

I could be wrong on the timing of Cancellare's photo. One useful approach is to look for the out-of-towners in Dealey photos, and this guy looks like one, along with "Robertson," "O'Hare" and "Hemming." My timing doesn't necessarily preclude that this might be Hunt, who could have left the PO building ahead of the shooting.

A word about Hunt: In large, military-style undertakings - Guatemala, Bay of Pigs - his MO was precisely to remain a command post director. He was more hands-on for the Nixon burglaries (Ellsburg's psychiatrist, Watergate-DNC), and only by luck or planning remained behind for the final Watergate entrance for which he was arrested. So you'd expect Hunt in a command post location in Dealey, or even outside Dealey, and not among the shooters. Any expert insights, Doug Caddy?

Edited October 9, 2014 by David Andrews

[Larry Hancock]

David, lets get a little more specific on Hunt's roles. He was a political action officer in both Guatemala and on the JMARC project. What that means is that he pressed the flesh with rebel or exile surrogates and served as a bag man for money. Beyond that he did political assessments of his contacts and wrestled with moving preferred surrogate leaders into political power positions. You would have found him working out of headquarters but in no way in a operational command post role. His trade craft was pitiful and he was written up for security violations. He also partied way too much for the security folks and was not trusted by the Ops guys - Morales noted on a memo that he would not trust him to keep any particular secret.

He simply was not a paramilitary ops guy in any sense, the made contacts, he promised things to people and he passed money. He appears to have been good at that but only with his type of political surrogates, he created as many problems as he solved in that sense. If anything it seems it was his pro Agency spy stories that impressed his superiors. It would be with that background that someone would need to fit him into some role that would put him in a photograph in the Plaza.