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A World Gone Mad


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2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Hi Paul,

I haven't read Caufield's book, but knowing the physical evidence and Lee Oswald's own actions like I do (and I know those things pretty well), I have a very difficult time believing in ANY conspiracy plot relating to the murder of President Kennedy. Oswald's movements and actions on both November 21st and 22nd spell out a practically last-minute, one-man "plot" that was very likely (IMO) hastily arranged by only one individual---Lee Harvey Oswald himself. I see no room for any of General Walker's handiwork, or anyone else's.

And I think author Jeffrey Caufield is off base by quite a large margin when he (or his publisher) asserts on the back cover of his book (pictured below) that Lee Oswald was merely "an unwitting pawn in one of our country's greatest historical mysteries".

The key word in that blurb being "unwitting". Given the things he did and the lies he told to Wesley Frazier on Nov. 21 and 22, I can't see how the word "unwitting" could ever be applied to Oswald. Others are free to disagree, of course.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/everything-oswald-did-says-guilt.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/12/edwin-walker-and-lee-harvey-oswald.html

David,

I have also followed the movements of Lee Oswald fairly closely, as well as the testimonies of those close to Oswald in 1962-1963.

The JFK murder was not a one-man show by any full accounting, IMHO.   There is plenty of room for Edwin Walker's handiwork.

The quotation from Jeff Caufield is a weak one -- because "unwitting" is a vague term -- it is always "unwitting to a certain degree."

That is, Oswald claimed to be a Patsy -- and a Patsy, by definition, is "unwitting to a certain degree."  But a Patsy is never 100% unwitting, because after all, the Patsy always knows who betrayed him -- only he knows it too late.   He thought they were his friends.

Oswald was never a real Communist.  Even J. Edgar Hoover admitted that to the WC.   Oswald was never a real officer of the FPCC.  Even J. Edgar Hoover admitted that.

When Oswald went to Mexico City to try to get an instant visa to Cuba, he took with him his Fake resumé of Fake FPCC credentials.  This is now US History 101, after the Lopez Report.

Oswald, according to Gerry Patrick Hemming, handed over his rifle to a trusted confederate near the TSBD on 11/22/1963.  Oswald was on the 2nd floor of the TSBD during the JFK shooting, finishing his lunch.   Less than 90 seconds after the JFK shooting, Officer Marrion Baker and TSBD superintendent Roy Truly confronted the Coke drinking Oswald on the 2nd floor, with a gun at his chest.

Certainly Oswald knew something was wrong, and very likely he panicked and ran home to get his pistol, and goodness knows where else he was headed when he encountered J.D. Tippit -- and had a shootout.

Jeff Caufield made history, IMHO, when he showed a direct connection between General Edwin Walker and J.D. Tippit at Austin's BBQ in Dallas.  This theory has not had much time to develop, but as the CIA-did-it theory gasps its last melodramatic gasp, the Walker CT will finally get its day in the sun.  Wait and see.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo
 

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Yes Dave, facts supports theories.I subscribe to neither of your theories. I've taken up with Paul some of my problems with his theory, and you can as well.  

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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18 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

(1)  But how does such a pre-arranged "Radical Right greeting", even if it were true, segue into pro-Castro leftist Lee Harvey Oswald killing President Kennedy from the TSBD on November 22?

(2)  Do you think General Walker himself arranged for Lee Oswald to get hired at the Depository in October? Which would also have to mean that Walker was involved in a miraculous "Seeing Into The Future" conspiracy with Linnie Mae Randle, since it was Randle, not Ruth Paine, who was really the person most responsible for providing anyone on Fifth Street with any information about a possible job opening at the TSBD.

(3)  Or do you think Walker conceived of a plot against JFK after October 15?

(4)  Either way, it sounds like a lot of speculation, innuendo, and rumor to me regarding any Walker participation, Paul. The very things you criticize Jim DiEugenio of engaging in.

Thank you.

David Von Pein
October 16-18, 2015

David,

(1)   A Radical Right ambush in Dallas (echoing its attacks on Adlai Stevenson only one month prior) can be connected to a "pro-Castro leftist Lee Harvey Oswald" by the help of J. Edgar Hoover himself.  The WC testimony of J. Edgar Hoover confirmed explicitly that Lee Harvey Oswald was never (i) a member of any Communist Party; or (ii) an officer of the FPCC.

As Jim Garrison ably showed (and perhaps the only thing he ably showed), Lee Harvey Oswald was operating in a Fake FPCC in New Orleans, at 544 Camp Street, which was a gathering place for anti-Castro rightists.  Therefore, the "pro-Castro leftist" Lee Harvey Oswald was a Fake, a phony, an infiltrator, a double-agent, so to speak.  This is also the opinion of David Lifton and many other CTers who have widely divergent CT's in many other ways.

(2)  I sincerely doubt that General Walker played any role in getting Lee Oswald hired at the TSBD.  That was just good luck for Walker, in my current reading.  Well, fantastic luck, bordering on Destiny, evidently.   I do believe that General Walker tracked Oswald since April 1963, and pegged him for his Patsy (in secret meetings in which Harry Dean was one attendee) as early as September 1963. 

(It might be remotely possible that Linnie Mae's husband was a member of the John Birch Society which met at Austin's BBQ in Dallas, led by General Walker.  If that can be verified, I will recalculate all my tables.)

(3) It seems to me today that General Walker began to conceive his Dallas plan when the final word for a Dallas visit by JFK was announced in the Dallas Times Herald on September 13, 1963.  General Walker dreamed of revenge on JFK and RFK for the abysmal way they treated him on October 1, 1962, sending Walker to an insane asylum.     

As the day drew closer, and the plans firmed up, the plans grew tighter and the noose was pulled tighter.

4.  There is more than innuendo and speculation in the Walker-did-it CT, however, David.  The starting point is actually FBI Agent Don Adams and his recent books on his FBI experience investigating the Radical Right in 1963, especially Joseph Milteer through FBI informant Willie Somersett. 

By making a direct linkage between Joseph Milteer and General Edwin Walker, the 2015 book by Jeffrey Caufield has broken the cycle of innuendo.  We are on firmer ground now.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos
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Paul T - While you engage with DVP, who it seems has not seen your theory here before, perhaps you could answer a question that's been on my mind. As a preface, you have stated numerous times that the reason WC/FBI covered up the truth and did not go after Walker and the radical right was in order to prevent civil conflict. Of course you know I find this ridiculous. But considering for a moment that you are right, and that, in your words, Hoover and Dulles were heroes who made the wise decision not to go after the perpetrators because they thought that a bloody internal conflict would ensue, would today's extreme rightward move make you rethink the wisdom of Hoover, Dulles, et al's decision? Has this question occurred to you before now?

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Trejo and DVP=Made for Each Other

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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Trejo and DVP=Made for Each Other

Yeah, that must be why I was arguing with him about his theory in 2015:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1051.html

I agree with Paul about Ruth Paine (as all reasonable people do); but I disagree strongly with him on his Walker theory.

So, are we still a match made in heaven, Jimmy?

 

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14 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Paul T - While you engage with DVP, who it seems has not seen your theory here before, perhaps you could answer a question that's been on my mind. As a preface, you have stated numerous times that the reason WC/FBI covered up the truth and did not go after Walker and the radical right was in order to prevent civil conflict. Of course you know I find this ridiculous. But considering for a moment that you are right, and that, in your words, Hoover and Dulles were heroes who made the wise decision not to go after the perpetrators because they thought that a bloody internal conflict would ensue, would today's extreme rightward move make you rethink the wisdom of Hoover, Dulles, et al's decision? Has this question occurred to you before now?

Paul B,

The flaw in your question is your presumption of the "Deep Politics" scenario which has infected JFK research since 1993.   "Deep Politics" is a left-wing reading of US History which attempts to make JFK into a Left-Wing Saint, crucified by a Right-Wing US Government.  In other words, biased, left wing, liberal nonsense.

By trying to make a linkage of the JFK assassination with the current Trump election controversy, the "Deep Politics" wing is really showing they don't care about the JFK assassination anymore, except as it feeds their left-wing political bias.

Actually -- the JFK assassination should be studied as objective US History.  David Lifton (1981) started out in this direction, and his early work is heroic.  In his greatest work, Best Evidence (1981) David Lifton did allow that there might be a "benign" explanation for the JFK cover-up.  That also remains my position.

J. Edgar Hoover admitted, even to the WC, that Lee Harvey Oswald was never a Communist and never an FPCC officer.  That's important. 

Also, Allen Dulles told his CIA Aide, Jacques Zwart,  that "the full answer to the JFK assassination is right there in the Warren Commission volumes -- but the reader must become an expert at 'hairsplitting.'"  It's really all right there in the WC -- but the CIA-did-it CT has obscured the truth for 50 years.

David Lifton's forthcoming book, Final Charade will also clarify his new position on the DPD Police and Sheriff's Deputies on 11/22/1963.  In a recent interview he said that he deeply suspects conspiratorial roles for DPD Chief Jesse Curry, Assistant Chief Charles Batchelor and his four Deputy Chiefs.  This is where the correct solution for the JFK assassination and cover-up will eventually arise. 

Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

David Lifton...said that he deeply suspects conspiratorial roles for DPD Chief Jesse Curry, Assistant Chief Charles Batchelor and his four Deputy Chiefs.

In other words, per some (or many) of the conspiracy promoters, it was The World vs. The Patsy in November 1963.

Incredible.

And I wonder how David Lifton explains the sudden about-face done by Chief Curry in circa 1969 when Curry's book came out that said things the CTers just love to quote 24/7? I guess Curry must have decided to abandon the cover-up and start telling the whole truth in '69. But here's what Jesse Curry was saying on 11/23/63:

"I think this is the man [Oswald] that killed the President."

https://app.box.com/s/u8hlumq4mya5lylmgqn5

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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Paul says:

David Lifton's forthcoming book, Final Charade will also clarify his new position on the DPD Police and Sheriff's Deputies on 11/22/1963.  In a recent interview he said that he deeply suspects conspiratorial roles for DPD Chief Jesse Curry, Assistant Chief Charles Batchelor and his four Deputy Chiefs.  This is where the correct solution for the JFK assassination and cover-up will eventually arise. 

Paul, what Dave, I believe is alluding to while then turning around and providing Curry's earliest statements the day of the assassination which I think we've all seen many times is Curry's statement made upon reflection years later when he wasn't under the gun,  that he suspects a second gunman.This would seem to contradict Lifton's assertions about his complicity in the assassination, or if not, is at least helpful for you to see..

 

 

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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David,

In my reading of Jesse Curry, he was playing the press like a ukulele.   Jesse Curry always knew there were shooters in the Grassy Knoll -- because that's where he first sent the DPD over the DPD radio at the moment the shots were fired.  Only later did he claim that he "heard" the shots from the TSBD. 

How can anybody believe Jesse Curry as though he was some ordinary country bumpkin?   Jesse Curry was more clever than you seem to think.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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48 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

David,

In my reading of Jesse Curry, he was playing the press like a ukulele. Jesse Curry always knew there were shooters in the Grassy Knoll -- because that's where he first sent the DPD over the DPD radio at the moment the shots were fired.

That's incorrect. Curry didn't send anybody to the Grassy Knoll at all. He sent them to the top of the Triple Underpass. Here's what he said over the DPD Radio at exactly 12:30 PM....

"Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

Doesn't sound like Curry thinks any shots came from the "Grassy Knoll" to me. Unless (somehow) you think the "top of that triple underpass" means the same thing as the Grassy Knoll?

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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paul T 

what a dishonest response. I'm not going to bother looking through your umpteen posts, but you know what you said - That Hoover and Dulles were heroes who made a conscious choice not to uncover the conspiracy they knew existed because they wanted to prevent a 'civil war' with the far right, Edwin Walker and company. So I'll ask again - does the Trump victory and the resurgence of the far right give you pause? And cut the crap about lefties and our inability to see clearly, or our unwillingness to see JFK as he was. You clearly don't know who he was, and are too blinded by your own ideology to read his words and see him as Progressive. You are just joining ranks with the revisionists who don't want us to remember. Which always leads me to the big question - why are you even here? Why do you care?

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13 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

That's incorrect. Curry didn't send anybody to the Grassy Knoll at all. He sent them to the top of the Triple Underpass. Here's what he said over the DPD Radio at exactly 12:30 PM....

"Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

Doesn't sound like Curry thinks any shots came from the "Grassy Knoll" to me. Unless (somehow) you think the "top of that triple underpass" means the same thing as the Grassy Knoll?

 

David,

You're being too literal.  The WC witnesses often conflated the terms, "Triple Underpass," railroad tracks, 'railroad yard," parking lot," "Moll," "Grassy Knoll," "embankment," "railroad area," and so on.

The obvious point is that Jesse Curry DIDN'T SAY, "Get a man on top of the TSBD and see what happened there!"   I stand by my point.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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13 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

paul T 

what a dishonest response. I'm not going to bother looking through your umpteen posts, but you know what you said - That Hoover and Dulles were heroes who made a conscious choice not to uncover the conspiracy they knew existed because they wanted to prevent a 'civil war' with the far right, Edwin Walker and company. So I'll ask again - does the Trump victory and the resurgence of the far right give you pause? And cut the crap about lefties and our inability to see clearly, or our unwillingness to see JFK as he was. You clearly don't know who he was, and are too blinded by your own ideology to read his words and see him as Progressive. You are just joining ranks with the revisionists who don't want us to remember. Which always leads me to the big question - why are you even here? Why do you care?

Paul B.,

You're trying to bait me into changing the topic from JFK research to Trump politics.  Give it up, man.

The Trump victory is not a resurgence of the Radical Right as led by General Edwin Walker in 1963.  We can never slide back that far.  Remember that General Walker was gay, but he was in the closet.  That doesn't happen today.  There are now 3,400 Black American students at Ole MIss University today.  There was only one in 1963.  We live in a whole new world. 

Capitalism today is nothing like the Capitalism of 1963.  Wake up and smell the coffee.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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