What happened to the extra patrons at the Texas Theater?

Larry Hancock · March 29, 2015

Robert, after taking a look at the files I have, they do indeed largely consist of first day civilian witness and Sheriff's interviews. There are some police files including interviews with senior officers about trip security

and some overall reports on that subject. There are also documents dealing with individual officers but they are not necessarily "first day"type interviews. A lot of them, especially with motorcycle officers

and foot patrol officers assigned to route security occurred later. Bill lists some sets of documents that do exist above but if he can't find the ones you want they well may not exist.

I'm still more cautious than Bill and no doubt you in thinking its a scandal, after all, the police department was investigating a crime and witnesses would have been the first priority time wise. Obviously everyone

should have given statements at some point in time....if not to internally within DPD but either to the FBI or the WC. Maybe there is a big story as to why police officers were not required to give first day

statements....one thought would be to step back and make a list of those who did and compare it to who is missing and look for patterns. That might give you a clue as to who was doing the interviews

and a real insight as to whether interviews were actually done and "pulled". I do know of a couple of areas where there should be reports, one involves the officer who called for the crime scene folks to

search for a bullet on the south side of the street, his interview is specific about that and photos show that they were there (or at least their equipment was) but there is no report on what they did or found.

Others include the list of patrons at the theater and there should have been a list of individuals with cars who were interviewed as they exited the parking area on the west side of the TSBD; officers are on

record of having done that.

In any event, those are the best observations I can offer on the subject....

Robert Mady · March 29, 2015

Robert Mady, I'm with you, the DPD reports are a scandal long overdue for discussion, analysis, and a big story..

Many of the documents that exist have never been properly analyzed.

There are some reports, but slipshod and all over the place. I can't find off-hand the specific ones you are looking for.

Bill, thank you for taking the time to post the links, all interesting, but as you know, not what we are looking for.

Robert Mady · March 29, 2015

Robert, after taking a look at the files I have, they do indeed largely consist of first day civilian witness and Sheriff's interviews. There are some police files including interviews with senior officers about trip security

and some overall reports on that subject. There are also documents dealing with individual officers but they are not necessarily "first day"type interviews. A lot of them, especially with motorcycle officers

and foot patrol officers assigned to route security occurred later. Bill lists some sets of documents that do exist above but if he can't find the ones you want they well may not exist.

I'm still more cautious than Bill and no doubt you in thinking its a scandal, after all, the police department was investigating a crime and witnesses would have been the first priority time wise. Obviously everyone

should have given statements at some point in time....if not to internally within DPD but either to the FBI or the WC. Maybe there is a big story as to why police officers were not required to give first day

statements....one thought would be to step back and make a list of those who did and compare it to who is missing and look for patterns. That might give you a clue as to who was doing the interviews

and a real insight as to whether interviews were actually done and "pulled". I do know of a couple of areas where there should be reports, one involves the officer who called for the crime scene folks to

search for a bullet on the south side of the street, his interview is specific about that and photos show that they were there (or at least their equipment was) but there is no report on what they did or found.

Others include the list of patrons at the theater and there should have been a list of individuals with cars who were interviewed as they exited the parking area on the west side of the TSBD; officers are on

record of having done that.

In any event, those are the best observations I can offer on the subject....

Larry, it is not only the police reports that are missing it's also reports on witnesses and suspects.

We are frustrated that the DPD did not keep detailed notes on the interrogation of OSWALD, but the fact is there is no paper trail of the investigation, unless this paper work can be located and there is a logical reason for it to have gone missing, this isn't a scandal the missing paper work is part of the cover-up, it is obstruction of justice, this is a crime.

Larry, the only PO I have found that made a written statement that day was BAKER, only CHANEY gave a TV interview, all of the other police within Dealey Plaza are conspicuous by their absence of records. A number of Police reports can be found dated July 1964. There can be no comparison made, there are none to compare.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Robert Mady

Larry Hancock · March 29, 2015

Robert, I think I must not have been clear. What I was proposing was building a master list of interviews done by all investigative groups, DPD, FBI, Secret Service and WC. You would need to profile the individuals interviewed by class - civilians, DPD, Sheriffs Officers, other law enforcement, and possibly even FBI. And of course the interviews have to be split by dates, lots of witnesses were interviewed multiple times. When you have done all that you would have an interesting research paper demonstrating what was and was not done. Of course even then you are left with proving that a massive failure to obtain DPD statements was something intentional and suspicious rather than just a lack of protocol or poor practice - and heaven knows we have enough examples of sloppiness and failure to follow protocol for DPD already. Bill mentioned the whole thing being a scandal, very possibly that's true - whether it reflects evil or conspiratorial intent remains an open question. I was also wondering if you had been able to determine what DPD rules of the time required in the way of obtaining officer statements, I would think they would be required for officers involved in an actual arrest but I don't have any idea of what the rules said should have been done and if there was a required time frame for taking statements....that would important to know.

We have had some very good, factual studies done comparing police written practices vs. what was actually done that day and its fair to say the DPD did not score well across the board, from crime scene work to chains of evidence. If you could actually determine that the officers were interviewed and the interviews are all missing, that would be extremely suspicious, but a failure to take written statements from all the assigned DPD officers within say 48 hours could be innocent enough even if it frustrates us at this point in time.

I jumped into this thread to offers some thoughts about very specific reports that appear to have gone missing and which I think are very suspicious - I'll have to leave proving in either suppression of officer interviews or a conscious decision not to take them as a subject that should be explored....it would be nice to see that sort of research documented and presented...

Edited March 29, 2015 by Larry Hancock

Robert Mady · March 29, 2015

Larry, I thought I understood what you said, the problem with an analysis like this is there is a complete absence of reports from the police there is a complete absence of interrogation reports from witnesses and suspects, there is nothing to compare.

As far as Sheriff's Affidavits, Police Reports written in 1964, SSA Reports, FBI Reports, A few statements from government officials, WC testimony and newspaper reports and media interviews, I have already cataloged every report concerning the assassination, data can be sorted by name, source, location, sex, civilian or otherwise, employee of the TSBD or other, number of shots heard, sound of shots heard, origin of shots, location of limo at time of shots, as well as dozens of other aspects.

There is no information generated in 1963 from the DPD that I have been able to locate on any policemen or witness or suspect. PO BAKER is the lone exception.

If this information still exits, I would love to see it.

Someone please point me to it.

Note, I am only concerned with the assassination, there maybe information readily available on TIPPIT.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Robert Mady

Bill Simpich · March 30, 2015

Robert,

Please go back to my previous post, and specifically what I cited earlier in CD 81.

In those hundreds of pages, there is a lengthy DPD case report dated 11/22, many police reports from 11/22 (often dated December 2 and 3) about Oswald's arrest from officers like Charles Walker, W.R. Westbrook, and the like.

You will also find many documents about the line-up of Oswald, the search of the depository, and the preparation to move Oswald from the police department before he was shot.

But not nearly enough DPD documents are there. And virtually none in my quick review about the specific officers you named in your initial post.

Robert Howard · April 2, 2015

I can see both sides of the argument; I just think after the way the DPD recorded in their documents that "Oswald" was arrested in the balcony AND in the general seating area; they probably decided to quit while they were behind.

Bill Simpich · July 23, 2015

Robert - I did notice some very short and very late reports by the specific officers you were asking about, though it was quite late in the game. It looked like the WC asked Curry to ask the officers you mentioned to come foreward with something, however short. It seemed that some of them were at least working with notes. It certainly wasn't much, but it was something. I think you could find more like this if you are interested.

Barnett...

Denham....

Harkness...