David Von Pein

John Connally's Lapel

243 posts in this topic

Bob, does that mean you want to put a make-believe bullet and an imaginary wound in JBC's left shoulder?

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No, but you get two more guesses. :)

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Aww, Bob, I don't think James would be interested in participating with any baiting, nor gagging someone merely because he disagrees with him.

It may be a good idea for you to stop baiting David. This kind of thing is getting old.

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"Fast moving projectile hits, or glances against, some loose material? What would you expect to happen? Nothing?"

LMAO!! That's it? That's all you can come up with for an explanation?

Listen closely. Connally was turning to his left. When he got to a certain point, the wind caught the underside of Connally's lapel and flipped it upward.

There was a stiff breeze blowing through Dealey Plaza. It almost blew Jackie's hat off.

Was there a bullet hole in the lapel?

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"Fast moving projectile hits, or glances against, some loose material? What would you expect to happen? Nothing?"

LMAO!! That's it? That's all you can come up with for an explanation?

Listen closely. Connally was turning to his left. When he got to a certain point, the wind caught the underside of Connally's lapel and flipped it upward.

There was a stiff breeze blowing through Dealey Plaza. It almost blew Jackie's hat off.

Oh dear. Same old, same old. Someone that doesn't understand things that Newton worked out centuries ago. It would take more than a stiff breeze to cause such a violent reaction. I'm also not at all surprised to learn that a police motorcycle rider almost lost his balance. He was riding a heavy motorcycle very slowly.

Are you one of those people that believe the statement that Robert Groden made, that Kennedy's movement after the headshot was 'entirely consistent with a shot from the front'? If you are, you aren't qualified to talk about basic, fundamental physical law.

Anyone who resorts to responding with acronyms like "LMAO" gets zero respect from me, I'm afraid.

Paul.

Paul,

Looking at the photographs showing the location of the bullet hole in the jacket, it seems to be quite some way from the lapel. Just looking at the lapel on a suit jacket of mine (I'm sure not as expensive & tailored as JBC's), the lapel is relatively stiff since it is double layered and pressed and folded to ensure it remains flat against the jacket. As far as I am aware, there was no damage on the lapel itself on JBC's jacket.

Taking the above into account, I would like to read your explanation of the physics behind the apparent lapel movement that is seen on the Z-film.

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The lapel is quite easy to manipulate, I assume? It's not made of Kevlar. What is so difficult to understand here? Bullet passes through Connally and imparts some of its momentum on his jacket. The physics is simple. What happens when you flick your lapel? It moves.

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I could understand the lapel flip if the bullet made contact with it (in the correct location). From what I can see on the photographs of the jacket, the bullet hole is nowhere near the lapel. If I "flick" the inside of my jacket in the approximate position of the bullet hole, the lapel barely moves,and it certainly doesn't "flip" in any way, let alone to the extent apparently seen in the Z-film.

I presume you have a formal physics qualification of some sort, based on your (apparently self-proclaiming) statements above "...if you are, you aren't qualified to talk about basic, fundamental physical law." and "The physics is simple."? Therefore, can you demonstrate the amount of energy expended from the bullet into the jacket as it strikes it, indicating the amount of movement expected to be seen from the jacket and, hence, the lapel please? I appreciate that you may not have the details of the materials and construction of JBC's jacket that you would require for such an exercise but I'll accept an approximation based on a similar jacket you may own or can access. I believe the relevant details regarding the bullet weight, speed etc. that you would require are available in the WC documents.

Edited by Ian Lloyd

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Hi Ian

A bit of advice; don't hold your breath waiting for Paul or DVP to explain how a bullet passing through Connally's jacket, in the vicinity of his right nipple, could cause his lapel to flip outward. The two events are totally unrelated, and, therefore, quite unexplainable with physics.

While your at it, you might ask him how the same bullet could cause Connally's tie to jump to the left.

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Below is my analysis of the Zapruder frames Z 222 to Z 230 and whether they demonstrate evidence that John Connally is demonstrating being wounded by a bullet.

There is a link to a pdf version at the end.

Here is a summary of the individual findings.

1. John Connally’s lapel is seen to move between frames Z222 and Z 223.

The lapel may move as a consequence of the wind. However image resolution is not clear whether it actually does move.

2. The “bulging out” of John Connally’s jacket at Z 224.

As page 2 points out, jacket image is a consequence of John Connally turning his body to his left.

3. John Connally’s shoulders are seen to flinch between Z 224/225.

As pointed out the change in the shape of John Connally’s shoulders is not a reaction to being struck a by bullet, but the changing position of John Connally’s shoulder as he turns his body left.

4. There is clear evidence of John Connally’s hat flipping which begins at Z 226

Aside from the fact the the frames used to describe this are blurred, it is clear [ from Z 230 ] that John Connally is shifting the position of his hat so that it is positioned in front of him.

5. The individual frames tells you nothing. You need to view the frames being processed through a gif.

When 3 of the nine frames are blurred then any result of showing the complete 9 frames is bound to result is unexpected images that do not represent what is actually seen in the frames.

6. John Connally’s neck tie is seen to distort and bulge outwards at Z 225.

This observation may well be true. However it is not clear why we are seeing the bulging.

7. John Connally’s mouth is seen to be open at exactly Z 225.

The image resolution simply makes it impossible to verify this. It is not even clear John Connally’s mouth is open.

James

PDF Version:-

https://www.transferbigfiles.com/9399f20f-0a84-4d67-8448-6745ae2fea6d/olDrj9--0tgoawZ3aWxXsg2

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Revised website link below (updated by DVP in order to archive the astounding amount of total denial exhibited by members of The Education Forum relating to the obvious signs of distress visible in Governor Connally's reactions when viewing Abraham Zapruder's motion picture film).....

Single-Bullet-Theory-Blog-Logo.png

Edited by David Von Pein

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Dave

You still have not explained what makes the lapel flip outward.

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I made my position clear on the "lapel flip" five years ago, Bob.....

"Due to the apparent movement of that same part of Connally's jacket at a point which I believe was PRIOR to the bullet passing through JBC's body, I've revised my thinking on the "lapel flip" over the years. I now feel it's quite possible that a combination of the wind (which was gusty that day) and Oswald's CE399 bullet are causing the movement of Connally's lapel that we see in the Zapruder Film. .... In the final analysis, the "lapel flip" or "jacket bulge" is probably the LEAST compelling evidence on the Z-Film that proves the SBT is occurring at precisely Z224. There are multiple other indicators that show JBC is "reacting" to an external stimulus just after Z224." -- DVP; April 23, 2010

--------

And just two days ago, I said this to you....

"Bob, The wind probably caught ahold of the lapel after the bullet passed through Connally's jacket, causing it to flip up more dramatically. Is that not at least POSSIBLE, Robert?" -- DVP; 5/13/15

And, Bob, since you yourself have said that you think the wind caused ALL of the lapel flip, then my above explanation HAS to make sense even to an anti-SBT CTer like you.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Revised website link below (updated by DVP in order to archive the astounding amount of total denial exhibited by members of The Education Forum relating to the obvious signs of distress seen by Governor Connally in Abraham Zapruder's motion picture film).....

Single-Bullet-Theory-Blog-Logo.png

Members of the Education Forum don't buy the SBT. What a newsflash.

As for John Connally's lapel, I will paraphrase from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre:

Lapels? What lapels? We don't need no stinking lapels.

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And the Single-Bullet Theory sure as heck doesn't need "no stinking lapels" either, Ron.

As I explain in detail at my SBT site.

Edited by David Von Pein

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I made my position clear on the "lapel flip" five years ago, Bob.....

"Due to the apparent movement of that same part of Connally's jacket at a point which I believe was PRIOR to the bullet passing through JBC's body, I've revised my thinking on the "lapel flip" over the years. I now feel it's quite possible that a combination of the wind (which was gusty that day) and Oswald's CE399 bullet are causing the movement of Connally's lapel that we see in the Zapruder Film. .... In the final analysis, the "lapel flip" or "jacket bulge" is probably the LEAST compelling evidence on the Z-Film that proves the SBT is occurring at precisely Z224. There are multiple other indicators that show JBC is "reacting" to an external stimulus just after Z224." -- DVP; April 23, 2010

--------

And just two days ago, I said this to you....

"Bob, The wind probably caught ahold of the lapel after the bullet passed through Connally's jacket, causing it to flip up more dramatically. Is that not at least POSSIBLE, Robert?" -- DVP; 5/13/15

And, Bob, since you yourself have said that you think the wind caused ALL of the lapel flip, then my above explanation HAS to make sense even to an anti-SBT CTer like you.

Sorry, Dave, you can't have it both ways. You're completely wrong about it being some bizarre combination of wind and bullet. Quite simply put, Connally was turning and, at one point, turned far enough that the wind caught his lapel.

Case closed.

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