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David Von Pein

John Connally's Lapel

243 posts in this topic

I realize that members have a decided antipathy toward DVP but for anyone to claim that these men are not being hit at the same time, well it's ludicrous.

Z-FilmClipSBTInMotion2.gif

They could have been hit at virtually the same time but not by the same bullet. Just like JFK could have been hit in the head by two virtually simultaneous shots.

Edited by Ron Ecker

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They could have been hit at virtually the same time but not by the same bullet. Just like JFK could have been hit in the head by two virtually simultaneous shots.

I doubt either thing was possible (given the Z-Film evidence). Dale Myers' exacting "key framing" of his computer 3D model to the Zapruder Film itself makes it fairly evident that Ron's first suggestion couldn't have occurred ("They could have been hit at virtually the same time but not by the same bullet").

It's pretty clear that Kennedy is in the bullet path during the critical Z-Film period in question when Connally was most likely hit by a bullet. So it looks like that bullet had NO CHOICE but to go through Kennedy first in order to get to Connally's upper back....

112.%2BSniper%27s%2BNest%2BImage%2BFrom%

As for the two simultaneous head shots --- If that were the case, why is there just ONE explosion of JFK's head? Why don't we see MULTIPLE explosions of blood and brain matter if JFK had been hit two times in the head?

In other words, how could TWO separate shots to the head look so much like just ONE?....

107.+Zapruder+Film+(Head+Shot+Sequence+I

And I think a similar "In other words" question can be asked of the conspiracy theorists who detest the Single-Bullet Theory so much ---

In other words, how could TWO (or more!) bullets have caused the damage to both President Kennedy and Governor Connally....and yet have those multiple bullets look so much like a SINGLE-BULLET EVENT in Abraham Zapruder's home movie AND in Commission Exhibit No. 903, to boot?

Commission-Exhibit-903.jpg

CE903-Complete-Series-Logo.png

Edited by David Von Pein

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Bob,

One possible explanation (and undoubtedly not the only one) is that the wind accentuated the coat/lapel "bulge/flip" after Connally's suit coat had been moved to some extent by Oswald's bullet.

But the notion that John Connally's coat just HAPPENS to bulge outward a great deal at virtually the exact same instant that a bullet is striking the Texas Governor (with that bullet creating damage to the right side of JBC's jacket) is almost impossible to contemplate, IMO.

Sure, I guess such a miraculous "coincidence" IS possible. But is it very likely?

the wind? the wind 'puffed' his lapel outward? The wind? That's the best you can do? Oswalds bullet? Fired from the 2nd floor break room?

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I don't think Roy Kellerman was a "xxxx". He was wrong (i.e., "mistaken"), but not a xxxx.

IMO, Kellerman heard Governor Connally shouting "My God, they're going to kill us all".

I know that Connally didn't have the Boston accent that JFK had, but given the fact the zero other people in the car heard JFK utter a word, and since we know that Gov. Connally DID utter the above words (including two of the words Kellerman claimed he heard JFK say--"My God"), well, in my view, the answer is that Kellerman must have heard Connally and not Kennedy.

with the very first bullet going through JFK's throat, it's not likely anyone heard him say anything.

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The wind? The wind 'puffed' his lapel outward? The wind? That's the best you can do?

Gee, I thought I was doing pretty good---what with all this stuff linked below that can't possibly be reasonably refuted. It can only be attacked by CTers who want to whine about the Z-Film being faked; but that's not a "reasonable" argument, so it can be dismissed right away....

Single-Bullet-Theory.blogspot.com/#Debating-The-SBT

Oswald's bullet? Fired from the 2nd floor break room?

Oswald wasn't in the second-floor break (lunch) room at 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63.

And just how do you think those 2 large fragments from "Oswald's bullet" managed to find their way into JFK's car if Oswald's gun wasn't being used that day to shoot bullets at Kennedy?

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/ce567-and-ce569.html

And can you tell me who was MORE LIKELY to be using Oswald's gun on Nov. 22 (or any other day) than Oswald himself?

Edited by David Von Pein

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The wind? The wind 'puffed' his lapel outward? The wind? That's the best you can do?

Gee, I thought I was doing pretty good---what with all this stuff linked below that can't possibly be reasonably refuted. It can only be attacked by CTers who want to whine about the Z-Film being faked; but that's not a "reasonable" argument, so it can be dismissed right away....

Single-Bullet-Theory.blogspot.com/#Debating-The-SBT

Oswald's bullet? Fired from the 2nd floor break room?

Oswald wasn't in the second-floor break (lunch) room at 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63.

And just how do you think those 2 large fragments from "Oswald's bullet" managed to find their way into JFK's car if Oswald's gun wasn't being used that day to shoot bullets at Kennedy?

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/ce567-and-ce569.html

And can you tell me who was MORE LIKELY to be using Oswald's gun on Nov. 22 (or any other day) than Oswald himself?

Oswald never had a gun. That was only part of the set up. Doesn't matter if the z film was faked or not, the wind doesn't blow from in front of you and blow your lapel outward. At least you have a sense of humor.

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Ron,

You raise an issue here for which I have no answer at present. There has been no debate on the SBT and John Connally's lapel. David Von Pein's posts - throughout these 14 pages - have drowned our any chance for fellow members discussing this issue.

As I mentioned earlier, I was wrong to remove posting privileges of David Von Pein whose opinions I disagreed with. I acknowledge I abused my position as an administrator when I did that.

However, this thread is focusing my interest on a issue that - at the moment - I do not have an answer to. The issue is this: at what point does a member's right to post and discuss limit the rights of other members to also discuss. Is there a point where the rights of other members over ride the rights of any individual member?

Although this thread has reached 14 pages, there has been no serious debate on the issues. And what I do not know is where is the line between every member having his/her right to post and the point where an individual's right to post in limiting fellow members right to debate and discuss.

I do not have an answer to this problem at the moment.

James.

James, I'm having difficulty with your position. DVP started this thread. He offered his opinion. That opinion has been challenged. He responded. How is it possible that his posts can be considered "over riding" the rights of anyone else? Is it the thrust and parry you object to? The way DVP counters the arguments?

I'm afraid I see this as a continuation of your animosity toward him.

Look, DVP's attitude toward CTs in general is annoying, granted. But on occasion he demolishes dumb theories that deserve it.

If a notion can be destroyed by the truth, that's what it deserves.

Ah, but Mark, rarely does VP use the truth to destroy anything. For example, he casually throws out: "Oswald's bullet" as if there is such a thing. As we all know there is not and never has been an "Oswald's bullet", that is only a figment of the imagination of the WC.

Edited by Kenneth Drew

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http://www7.zippyshare.com/v/9Z2MYF1X/file.html

Which direction did the blood flow from JBC's wrist?

chris

:) Atta boy, Chris! There were several wounds that didn't seem to do any bleeding in that car, if I recall.

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They could have been hit at virtually the same time but not by the same bullet. Just like JFK could have been hit in the head by two virtually simultaneous shots.

I doubt either thing was possible (given the Z-Film evidence). Dale Myers' exacting "key framing" of his computer 3D model to the Zapruder Film itself makes it fairly evident that Ron's first suggestion couldn't have occurred ("They could have been hit at virtually the same time but not by the same bullet").

It's pretty clear that Kennedy is in the bullet path during the critical Z-Film period in question when Connally was most likely hit by a bullet. So it looks like that bullet had NO CHOICE but to go through Kennedy first in order to get to Connally's upper back....

112.%2BSniper%27s%2BNest%2BImage%2BFrom%

As for the two simultaneous head shots --- If that were the case, why is there just ONE explosion of JFK's head? Why don't we see MULTIPLE explosions of blood and brain matter if JFK had been hit two times in the head?

In other words, how could TWO separate shots to the head look so much like just ONE?....

107.+Zapruder+Film+(Head+Shot+Sequence+I

And I think a similar "In other words" question can be asked of the conspiracy theorists who detest the Single-Bullet Theory so much ---

In other words, how could TWO (or more!) bullets have caused the damage to both President Kennedy and Governor Connally....and yet have those multiple bullets look so much like a SINGLE-BULLET EVENT in Abraham Zapruder's home movie AND in Commission Exhibit No. 903, to boot?

Commission-Exhibit-903.jpg

CE903-Complete-Series-Logo.png

"As for the two simultaneous head shots --- If that were the case, why is there just ONE explosion of JFK's head? Why don't we see MULTIPLE explosions" Simultaneously? Multiple? Doesn't 'simultaneously mean 'at the same time'? wouldn't that result in 'one' not 'multiple'. What is that big black blob that is painted around the back of JFK's head in the Z film? How did it get there?

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Oswald never had a gun.

That's another conspiracy myth that refuses to die the agonizing death it deserves (just like dozens of other such conspiracy-oriented myths and fairy tales).

The truth is, of course, that Lee Harvey Oswald's purchase and ownership of Carcano Rifle #C2766 and Smith & Wesson Revolver #V510210 have been established and proven beyond all possible reasonable doubt (and in many different ways, to boot), as I demonstrate at the links below....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/mannlicher-carcano.html

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/08/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-42.html

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-postmark-on-commission-exhibit-773.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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Question: Why were these two posts deleted (or "hidden") earlier today?

Mark Valenti, on 19 May 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

James R Gordon, on 19 May 2015 - 04:46 AM, said:

Those two posts are only showing up now because other people have used the "Quote" feature and so they show up in subsequent posts.

~shrug~

Edited by David Von Pein

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There were three posts hidden.

Two of mine, and unfortunately one of Mark's because he referenced one of my posts. Sorry Mark.

James

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There were three posts hidden.

Two of mine, and unfortunately one of Mark's because he referenced one of my posts. Sorry Mark.

But....why?

Plus, you can see it does no good to "hide" them if other posters use the QUOTE feature to make them visible in later posts.

Why did they need to be hidden in the first place? I really don't understand.

Edited by David Von Pein

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