David Von Pein

John Connally's Lapel

243 posts in this topic

Quote from Kellerman's WC testimony: "Lawson, this is Kellerman... we are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Obviously my memory conflated that with JFK supposedly saying "I am hit." When my aging memory gets so bad that I can no longer remember what city Dealey Plaza is in, I'll quit posting here.

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I know what you mean about deteriorating memory, Ron. It sucks becoming ancient. I feel it too. (And I'm only 53.) :)

My memory is getting worse too. Just yesterday, I was kicking myself for not being able to remember somebody's name in connection with the JFK case. After about an hour, the name popped back into my head. But now, just 24 hours later, I haven't the slightest memory of who the person was that I forgot about yesterday. (LOL)

Edited by David Von Pein

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I don't think Roy Kellerman was a "xxxx". He was wrong (i.e., "mistaken"), but not a xxxx.

IMO, Kellerman heard Governor Connally shouting "My God, they're going to kill us all".

I know that Connally didn't have the Boston accent that JFK had, but given the fact the zero other people in the car heard JFK utter a word, and since we know that Gov. Connally DID utter the above words (including two of the words Kellerman claimed he heard JFK say--"My God"), well, in my view, the answer is that Kellerman must have heard Connally and not Kennedy.

How soon after the shot that hit JFK in the throat, did Connally say "My God they're going to kill us all" ?

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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DVP logic:

Kellerman had to be mistaken about hearing JFK say he was hit because, if he did have a throat wound at this point, he could not have said these words and the SBT would be a lie therefore; he had to be mistaken about hearing JFK say he was hit.

It's so simple, I can't see why we don't all see it.

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I never said anything of the kind, Bob. You're making stuff up.

I gave my reason for believing Kellerman heard Connally, in Post 15 in this thread.

Edited by David Von Pein

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How about the Greer-said-it theory? When Kellerman thought he heard JFK say, "My God, I am hit," he was actually hearing Greer say, "My God, I am it." Meaning that it was up to Greer at that point, by slowing the car for the shooters and waiting for a fatal shot, to see that the kill was successful.

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The Zapruder Film provides a good answer to your last question, Ray.

SOME MORE SBT TALK:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-941.html

A silent movie doesn't show anybody saying anything.

By the way, how does Myers cartoon

112.%20Snipers%20Nest%20Image%20From%20D

compare to an actual photo of the limo?

[url=http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Fourbrick/media/JFK-in-Dallas2_zpsfe6695cd.png.html]JFK-in-Dallas2_zpsfe6695cd.png[/u

Note how the right shoulders of JFK and Connally and Kellerman all line up.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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David,

Let us put aside the "lapel" issue and just deal with the movie clip.

The point being made by the movie is that during the sequence of frames [ and I should point out you have not informed us which frames we are talking about ] Connally's lapel moves and his body is seen to also move/jerk whatever. The conclusion is that Connally has been hit by the same bullet that caused JFK's throat would.

Below is a sequence of edited frames from Z 222 to Z 230. I have used the John Costella combined edit.

John%20Connallys%20turn_zps2ptvkrb7.jpg

Looking at these frames I agree that Connally is moving, but he is turning to his right.

Point 1. Is that taken account of and explained in your movie.

Point 2. Z 227 is a very blurred frame. Is that frame being used in your movie and where in your movie was it placed. E.g. did you end with that frame?

Point 3. If the single frames clearly show Connally in the process of turning to his right, how can you be sure that Connally has also been hit by a bullet. And if so why do we not see evidence in this turn to point that [ included in this sequence ] is also the moments when he is struck by a bullet.

If members want the actual file to examine for themselves you can download from here.

https://www.transferbigfiles.com/dba1ffb0-b20a-4b8e-9576-9231714dc0f6/oQq4APzkLWEVgd9XUqdwVQ2

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James,

Just looking at individual Z-Film still frames isn't going to get you anywhere. That's the same mistake John Connally himself made when he studied individual frames and decided he was hit around Z231 to Z234. You need to watch the clips in motion--and on a repeating loop, like here.....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/sbt-clips.html

If you can examine the clips presented above and say to yourself that the SBT is still impossible, then I would have to think you just viewed those clips with your eyes closed.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Ray,

You surely aren't saying that you think Connally was NOT seated somewhat "inboard" of JFK, are you?

The "inboard" status of Connally's position in the limo throughout the entire Dallas motorcade has been illustrated in many photographs, such as the two below....

JFK-Motorcade-In-Dallas-Texas-November-2

Love%2BField%252C%2BDallas%252C%2B11-22-

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David,

With respect, I totally disagree with you. These frames are clear - aside from 227. If the individual frames clearly show John Connally turning to his right nor do they show the jumping movement you claim the movie shows - then something is wrong.

You do not see the movement of the body - in the individual frames - that you claim can be seen in the movie. Have you stabilised the frames. Have you used the John Costella combined edit. What is the basis of your edited movie?

Put simply the Costella frames suggest you are wrong. The Costella frames make clear Connally is turning to his right. Are you disputing that the Costella frames show John Connally turning to his right???

James

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Ray,

You surely aren't saying that you think Connally was NOT seated somewhat "inboard" of JFK, are you?

The "inboard" status of Connally's position in the limo throughout the entire Dallas motorcade has been illustrated in many photographs, such as the two below....

JFK-Motorcade-In-Dallas-Texas-November-2

Love%2BField%252C%2BDallas%252C%2B11-22-

Both the photos you present show JFK turning to his left, i.e. leaning to his right, particularly the large photo, which exaggerates the appearance of Connally being well inboard of JFK.

Compare your photo with the mine shown above.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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James,

The subtle and very fast involuntary movements made by Connally take place in the wink of an eye, making it imperative they be seen IN MOTION, vs. just still frames.

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Connally had no choice but to be sitting inboard of Kennedy. The jump seats were made that way....

SS-100-X+Schematic.jpg

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