David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) @David Josephs.... So, let me get this straight.... You are actually saying I should totally DISREGARD and DISBELIEVE anything uttered by TSBD fifth-floor witnesses Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams, and James Jarman Jr. concerning their belief that shots were being fired from directly over their heads? Is that correct? And you think Norman was telling nothing but a pack of lies throughout the video below, in which he talks at length about how he thought there was somebody firing a rifle over his head from the sixth floor? Is that correct, DJ? Edited June 24, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 What I'm saying David is they, like so many, said what was needed to be said to the DPD & FBI in 1963. That you remain so naive and such a country bumpkin to fail to understand the graft, greed, dishonesty and all around evil intent which runs rampant in the souls of men is utterly amazing. Watch the news David... what planet have you been on for the last 25 years? You simply dont want to wake from your peaceful dream, right David? Well... I'm done here... nighty night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) David Josephs offers up more convenient excuses so he can ignore what the evidence truly indicates. In light of all the "Sixth Floor" evidence and witness testimony, why you think any reasonable person would (or even could) buy into the absurd notion that NO SHOTS AT ALL came from that floor is the bigger mystery. Nighty night. Edited June 24, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Your arguments and the support of the WCR is the grandest of all schemes and the holder of more "convenient excuses" for the evidence than any document in history. I did not say NO SHOTS AT ALL... and since you have no idea whether Euins sees the firing of actual ammo or something else is not anything you can prove. There are other options David, much to your chagrin, which explain the situation in the context on the conspiracy that it was... your desire to keep it a naive closed loop discussion notwithstanding. But please keep at it since your posts remain some of the best examples for the horrific presentation of lies our government perpetrated and continues to perpetrate related to their terrible deeds over the years... So a heartfelt thanks from all of us... btw - this to me looks lilke someone standing in the window as the Limo rounds the corner... you? Edited June 24, 2015 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Fernandez Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The Carcano in evidence today was not owned by LHO. The discussion is off track. From DVP: I'll repeat something I said to James Gordon in a private message last month.... "Yes, my opinion is pretty firm on the "LN" and "WC" side of things, but that's because I believe ALL of the physical evidence supports Oswald's guilt (and supports the SBT as well). And when someone decides to (IMO) misrepresent things...then I think I should call them on it and point out those misrepresentations (and/or errors in their thinking). And most of the "LNer vs. CTer" debates, IMO, really DO come down to pointing out and correcting the misrepresentations made over and over again by the CTers on forums. I see it all the time---on Edu. Forum, on Facebook, on Duncan MacRae's forum, on McAdams' newsgroup, on IMDB---everywhere. CTers perpetuate myth after myth, year after year, and that's a big reason I post on forums today---to give the other side to anyone who cares to absorb it. Most CTers, of course, think that it's I who "misrepresent" the facts. I feel strongly otherwise. So there's the perpetual stalemate --- Who's right? Who's wrong? That debate will likely never end." -- David Von Pein; May 16, 2015 DVP, Why are you rehashing something from the 8o's? It's not anything you need to clear up for us? You're the one perpetuating the discussion. There must be a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) DVP, Why are you rehashing something from the 80s? Because Weisberg said it in the '80s. And as you can see by all the goofy comments from CTers in this thread, the "No Shots Came From The Nest" BS is something that seems to still have some fans here in 2015. (Incredible, isn't it?) In addition, I'm constantly hearing CTers quoting stuff from the books of first-generation researchers like Weisberg and Thompson and Meagher. Do you object to that, Bruce? Those quotes go all the way back to the 1960s. And I could utilize your "80s" comment and turn the tables on you and ask.... Why are you dredging up the JFK case now? After all, it happened in the '60s. Edited June 24, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Fernandez Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Because I have a personal connection and interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Fernandez Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 And I'm not "bringing it up", just trying to discern truth, asking questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well, Bruce, will you answer this question for me please if you would?..... Do you think shots were fired from the "Sniper's Nest" window on the TSBD's 6th floor on 11/22/63? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 To all lurkers: DVP presents as his own thinking the conclusions of the Warren Report. He does not tell us that's what he's doing. If you believe David, go to the original source, the Warren Report. You'll find you don't need DVP. On the other hand, if you like what DVP spoon feeds here, give DVP a thumbs-up. He is serving your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) To all lurkers: DVP presents as his own thinking the conclusions of the Warren Report. He does not tell us that's what he's doing. If you believe David, go to the original source, the Warren Report. You'll find you don't need DVP. On the other hand, if you like what DVP spoon feeds here, give DVP a thumbs-up. He is serving your needs. So, Jon, does that mean that you think that anyone who believes Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone killer of John F. Kennedy and J.D. Tippit should just shut their mouth entirely and not speak up in favor of "The Truth" as that LNer sees it? The LNer should just point to the Warren Report and be done with it? And are you also suggesting that LNers should not be free to attempt to tear down the many conspiracy "myths" that have surfaced since the Warren Commission disbanded? (A "lurker" sure as heck can't go to the Warren Report for any kind of post-1964 "myth-busting".) Sounds to me as though you are advocating (from a "CTer" POV) a "Get lost, LNer, you're not welcome (or needed) here at all" attitude. Which would be kind of strange coming from you, Jon. Because in many of your past posts, you have welcomed the presence of opposing viewpoints at this forum. Haven't you? Edited June 24, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Fernandez Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 David I'm afraid I don't have a firm "think" on that yet. I know, the lawyers say that was a yes or no question, but then I would like to remind them of my oath to tell "the whole truth", neither they or the judges, I think, would like that interpretation. If the barrel of the MC in evidence was "rusted" the next day, as was reported, then I don't believe that weapon did any shooting that day. If just "pitted", then OK. I'm puzzled by the chicken bones, I don't think LHO had fried chicken for lunch (Frazier ... no lunch bag). I think there was a through & through hole in the windshield that was from the bullet that entered the President's throat. I'm concerned that we don't know where that bullet ended up in the body, (or, for that matter came from) but convinced from photos that the throat wound was of entrance. This also gives me major pause about the autopsy (which is where I have personal interest). I think Tague was hit by curbing splashed up from a missed shot from behind the motorcade (TSBD?). I think JFK had a major blow out of the rear of his head from a shot from the side. I don't know how many shots were fired in total but I'm concerned that if it was 3 (as many eye witness reports have it and matched by expended shells in the snipers nest), something is seriously out of balance and suggests planted evidence, implying government intervention and prior planning. David, I've laid out some of my thinking process here. This is a miserable morass of data, it's really hard for me to understand hard positions one way or the other. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Thank you, Bruce. One more question.... If a shot hit JFK in the throat from the FRONT, then that has to mean that there were TWO bullets that entered Kennedy's body (back & throat) that never exited his body at all. How would that be possible if the guns were rifles that fired bullets at up to 2,000fps (or greater)? TWO bullets that entered soft flesh and did not exit. How? And then BOTH bullets just disappeared!?? Any ideas on that? Edited June 24, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Fernandez Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 David I'll not limit you to "one more question". There are more questions than cogent answers in this case. I stipulated in my previous answer to you that I have serious concerns with the autopsy results. I am similarly (as you, apparently) puzzled that there are two reported bullet entrances (throat & back) and no bullets (other than fragments in the brain)found in the cadaver or Connaly. I do think the Naval (and Army) officers that did the autopsy, while inexperienced in murder cases, were not inclined to deceit. They, however, may have been influenced to report in such a way as to not inflame public opinion, a conclusion I abhor and don't really understand. I have not stipulated, I don't think, that I believe that the weapons used were high powered (2000 FPS or better) weapons. One problem in that area I have, though, with the evidence is that if you believe that the bullet presented in evidence today, if actually fired with adequate powder load, hitting the flesh and bones reported, ended up un scathed (for the most part) is a real representation of the activity in Dealey Plaza that day, then you are representing something other than accepted reality. (Please don't go to the "what is accepted" mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) If you believe that the bullet presented in evidence today, if actually fired with adequate powder load, hitting the flesh and bones reported, ended up unscathed (for the most part) is a real representation of the activity in Dealey Plaza that day, then you are representing something other than accepted reality. But, Bruce, what about the various tests that have been done that indicate a Carcano bullet can and will do the damage to human tissue and bone that CE399 purportedly did and still have the bullet end up in pretty decent shape (or, in the case of Dr. Fackler's test bullet in 1992, in perfect shape)? So tests HAVE been done that have replicated the general condition of CE399. What do you make of those tests, Bruce? Do you think the tests were fraudulent? Fackler bullet (1992): --------------------------------------------- Discovery Channel bullet (2004): Edited June 25, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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