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Thomas Graves

Man Wearing Fedora, White Tie, and Breast Pocket Handkerchief -- ONI Officer David Aubrey Sooy?

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As indicated on another thread, Linda thinks the guy wearing the white tie and the white handkerchief in his jacket pocket in this video at 6:15 is Dallas ONI officer David A. Sooy.

(My Question: Isn't "6:15 Guy" also visible standing on the traffic "island" with his arms crossed in the Wiegman film?)

--Tommy :sun

PS

Here's a 1940's or 1950's photo said to be of Sooy on the right and Krystinik on the left, which was originally posted by James Richards.

attachicon.gif10414571_650535015066813_827721137919513780_n.jpg

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

Cook_frame_0021.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

Cook_frame_0021.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Could this be the car that Sooy was waiting in?

--Tommy :sun

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Tom, you seem to have a premise for your idea. See Below

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA) - November 16, 1995

Deceased Name: CAPT. DAVID A. SOOY

Pioneering Navy flier, 92

Capt. David Aubrey Sooy , a pioneering Navy aviator who developed land for shopping centers and custom homes after a 30-year military career, died on his 92nd birthday Nov. 5 at Scripps Memorial Hospital-Encinitas.

Capt. Sooy , who died of natural causes, was credited with making the first night landing on the carrier Saratoga in 1931.

He also was among Navy aviators whose trick maneuvers in public performances paved the way for the advent of the Blue Angels, family members said.

He helped install the first Link trainer for student aviators while serving as a flight instructor at Pensacola, Fla.

Capt. Sooy was stationed at North Island Naval Air station when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He was again attached to the Saratoga for the duration of World War II.

The carrier suffered damage from torpedoes in the Pacific, but returned to action in the Mariana Islands and in New Guinea.

After World War II, Capt. Sooy attended the Naval War College in Newport, R.I. He was commanding officer of naval air stations in Dallas and Trinidad before retiring from the military in 1960.

Capt. Sooy began his career in real estate in northeast Dallas, where he became president of a land development company. When President John F. Kennedy was fatally shot in Dallas in November 1963, Capt. Sooy was sitting in his car, waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass the school depository.

A native of Chicago, Capt. Sooy grew up in Indiana and moved to Southern California in 1921. While attending the University of Southern California, he became fascinated with aviation.

Capt. Sooy rebuilt a disabled airplane, learned to fly and later taught flying in the Los Angeles area.

He moved to San Diego County 25 years ago and was living in Del Mar Highlands before being hospitalized.

Capt. Sooy is survived by his wife, Evelyn; a daughter, Chundra Worley; three grandchildren; and two great-grandchildren.

Cremation was planned. Services were pending. Donations are suggested to the medical library at San Diego Naval Medical Center in Balboa Park or to a favorite charity.

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA)

Date: November 16, 1995

Edition: UNION-TRIBUNE 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Page: B-10

Record Number: SDUN2877102

Copyright 1995 Union Tribune Publishing Co.

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On 8/2/2015 at 7:18 AM, Robert Howard said:

Tom, you seem to have a premise for your idea. See Below

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA) - November 16, 1995

Deceased Name: CAPT. DAVID A. SOOY

Pioneering Navy flier, 92

Capt. David Aubrey Sooy , a pioneering Navy aviator who developed land for shopping centers and custom homes after a 30-year military career, died on his 92nd birthday Nov. 5 at Scripps Memorial Hospital-Encinitas.

Capt. Sooy , who died of natural causes, was credited with making the first night landing on the carrier Saratoga in 1931.

He also was among Navy aviators whose trick maneuvers in public performances paved the way for the advent of the Blue Angels, family members said.

He helped install the first Link trainer for student aviators while serving as a flight instructor at Pensacola, Fla.

Capt. Sooy was stationed at North Island Naval Air station when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He was again attached to the Saratoga for the duration of World War II.

The carrier suffered damage from torpedoes in the Pacific, but returned to action in the Mariana Islands and in New Guinea.

After World War II, Capt. Sooy attended the Naval War College in Newport, R.I. He was commanding officer of naval air stations in Dallas and Trinidad before retiring from the military in 1960.

Capt. Sooy began his career in real estate in northeast Dallas, where he became president of a land development company. When President John F. Kennedy was fatally shot in Dallas in November 1963, Capt. Sooy was sitting in his car, waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass the school depository.

A native of Chicago, Capt. Sooy grew up in Indiana and moved to Southern California in 1921. While attending the University of Southern California, he became fascinated with aviation.

Capt. Sooy rebuilt a disabled airplane, learned to fly and later taught flying in the Los Angeles area.

He moved to San Diego County 25 years ago and was living in Del Mar Highlands before being hospitalized.

Capt. Sooy is survived by his wife, Evelyn; a daughter, Chundra Worley; three grandchildren; and two great-grandchildren.

Cremation was planned. Services were pending. Donations are suggested to the medical library at San Diego Naval Medical Center in Balboa Park or to a favorite charity.

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA)

Date: November 16, 1995

Edition: UNION-TRIBUNE 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Page: B-10

Record Number: SDUN2877102

Copyright 1995 Union Tribune Publishing Co.

Yes, Robert, I'd already read his obituary (which new member Linda posted a day or two ago on the "Where Was Truly Right After the Last Shot?" thread. Did you miss it there?

Not sure I understand what you meant when you said I seemed to have a "premise." I hope you didn't mean that I seemed to have "an agenda." LOL

If you mean that I got from Sooy's obituary the idea that his car must have been visible near the TSBD, you are correct, sir. After all, I did write at the beginning of my last post:

Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

 

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

FWIW, Linda thinks the guy wearing the white tie and white handkerchief near the end of Robert Hughes' film was ONI regional chief David A. Sooy, and I thought it would be worthwhile to pursue that idea. Unfortunately, Linda has been unable to upload here some photos she says she has of Sooy so that we could compare them with the white-tie-and-handkerchief guy visible in the Hughes film at 6:15 in the video I posted in my first post, this thread

Something I'd really like to know is -- Was Sooy ONI?

Greg Parker said "Sooy was ONI" to James Richards on this forum a few years ago, but didn't elaborate as to how he knew that. Perhaps he will do so here.

If ONI Special Agent Robert D. Steel were still alive here in San Diego, I would ask him about Sooy.

All I know is that A.C. Sullivan was a "very good friend" of Steel's, and was head of the Dallas ONI office.

--Tommy :sun

PS Thanks for the de facto "bump."

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Tom, you seem to have a premise for your idea. See Below

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA) - November 16, 1995

Deceased Name: CAPT. DAVID A. SOOY

Pioneering Navy flier, 92

Capt. David Aubrey Sooy , a pioneering Navy aviator who developed land for shopping centers and custom homes after a 30-year military career, died on his 92nd birthday Nov. 5 at Scripps Memorial Hospital-Encinitas.

Capt. Sooy , who died of natural causes, was credited with making the first night landing on the carrier Saratoga in 1931.

He also was among Navy aviators whose trick maneuvers in public performances paved the way for the advent of the Blue Angels, family members said.

He helped install the first Link trainer for student aviators while serving as a flight instructor at Pensacola, Fla.

Capt. Sooy was stationed at North Island Naval Air station when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He was again attached to the Saratoga for the duration of World War II.

The carrier suffered damage from torpedoes in the Pacific, but returned to action in the Mariana Islands and in New Guinea.

After World War II, Capt. Sooy attended the Naval War College in Newport, R.I. He was commanding officer of naval air stations in Dallas and Trinidad before retiring from the military in 1960.

Capt. Sooy began his career in real estate in northeast Dallas, where he became president of a land development company. When President John F. Kennedy was fatally shot in Dallas in November 1963, Capt. Sooy was sitting in his car, waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass the school depository.

A native of Chicago, Capt. Sooy grew up in Indiana and moved to Southern California in 1921. While attending the University of Southern California, he became fascinated with aviation.

Capt. Sooy rebuilt a disabled airplane, learned to fly and later taught flying in the Los Angeles area.

He moved to San Diego County 25 years ago and was living in Del Mar Highlands before being hospitalized.

Capt. Sooy is survived by his wife, Evelyn; a daughter, Chundra Worley; three grandchildren; and two great-grandchildren.

Cremation was planned. Services were pending. Donations are suggested to the medical library at San Diego Naval Medical Center in Balboa Park or to a favorite charity.

San Diego Union-Tribune, The (CA)

Date: November 16, 1995

Edition: UNION-TRIBUNE 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Page: B-10

Record Number: SDUN2877102

Copyright 1995 Union Tribune Publishing Co.

Yes, Robert, I'd already read his obituary (which new member Linda posted a day or two ago on the "Where Was Truly Right After the Last Shot?" thread. Did you miss it there?

Not sure i understand what you meant when you said I seemed to have a "premise." I hope you didn't mean that I seemed to have "an agenda." LOL

If you mean that I got from Sooy's obituary the idea that his car must have been visible near the TSBD, you are correct, sir. After all, I did write at the beginning of my last post:

Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

FWIW, Linda thinks the guy wearing the white tie and white handkerchief near the end of Robert Hughes' film was ONI regional chief David A. Sooy, and I thought it would be worthwhile to pursue that idea. Unfortunately, Linda has been unable to upload here some photos she says she has of Sooy so that we could compare them with the white-tie-and-handkerchief guy visible in the Hughes film at 6:15 in the video I posted in my first post, this thread

Something I'd really like to know is -- Was Sooy ONI?

Greg Parker said "Sooy was ONI" to James Richards on this forum a few years ago, but didn't elaborate as to how he knew that. Perhaps he will do so here.

If ONI Special Agent Robert D. Steel were still alive here in San Diego, I would ask him about Sooy.

All I know is that A.C. Sullivan was a "very good friend" of Steel's, and was head of the Dallas ONI office.

--Tommy :sun

PS Thanks for the de facto "bump."

Bumped for Robert Howard, Greg Parker, and Linda to comment upon.

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

Cook_frame_0021.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Could this be the car that Sooy was waiting in?

--Tommy :sun

Created and bumped for Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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As indicated on another thread, Linda thinks the guy wearing the white tie and the white handkerchief in his jacket pocket in this video at 6:15 is Dallas ONI officer David A. Sooy.

(My Question: Isn't "6:15 Guy" also visible standing on the traffic "island" with his arms crossed in the Wiegman film?)

--Tommy :sun

PS

Here's a 1940's or 1950's photo said to be of Sooy on the right and Krystinik on the left, which was originally posted by James Richards.

attachicon.gif10414571_650535015066813_827721137919513780_n.jpg

This thread was created and bumped for Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

Cook_frame_0021.jpg

--Tommy :sun

I totally agree, Tommy! This coup is one of the my candidates for his car! I have a clearer view of it looking from east to west which i'll post - I think it's from the Cook/Cooper film. He also could have parked on the Elm Ext. also where we see several car's parked. He'd probably have a clearer view there since it's up a small rise above the crowd so he could see the street if he did stay in his car. If he parked here he would definitely have had to get out because of the crowd of people in front of him blocking Houston and his view. I never bought the idea that he would stay in his car anyway. So this could definitely still be a prime candidate!

It might also help explain why we see a guy that looks a lot like Sooy down in this general area slightly NORTH of & EAST of the traffic island and stoplight in Altgens6 -- where we see his head and hat just above the windshield and driver's visor of the Queen Mary in Altgens6. I call him the Queen Mary Man or "QM-Man" for short.

To me he looks very similar, but not identical to, the guy I'm convinced is Sooy in the DCA Film at 6:15 that you posted above. (Btw... there are several versions online of the DCA Film edited to varying lengths. So he won't always be found at 6:15) QM-Man may or may not be the same guy - but I haven't ruled out the idea that he is the same guy and that they are both Sooy. QM-Man has the same basic features but what appears to be a fuller face - but I posit this could be due to the differences in lighting - with the DCA-Man facing directly into the southern sun.

I originally posted about both of them over it in the other thread where this discussion started Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired? And thanks for starting this tread, Tommy! Sorry I've been so busy researching and posting that I just haven't gotten around to posting here till now.

NVIJdD5.png

Edited by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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Sooy's obituary says that he was in his parked car near the TSBD during the assassination. I wonder if the older model green car that was parked on the side of the TSBD at the intersection of Elm and Houston could have belonged to Sooy?

The car I'm talking about is visible in the background of this photo:

Cook_frame_0021.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Do you think that's George W. Bush (17 years old at the time) stepping off the curb?

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As I said earlier, sorry I haven't posted on this thread sooner, but I've been busy, busy, busy researching Sooy, making a list of the locations and statements of the new Truly grouping Tommy found in Weigman etc...it all takes time and I've hardly slept lately... so my apologies for not posting sooner! To update everyone...

Tommy and I have had some lengthy back and forth in the abovementioned "Truly" thread over whether DCA-Man and QM-Man are the same guy. AND over whether they are the same man as the man standing on the curb directly below the stoplight on the little Island separating the Elm Ext from Elm - the man who many have long thought was Truly.

In that thread Tommy originally posited (brilliantly!) and we eventually resolved that that man - long posited by most everyone to be Roy Truly - is NOT Roy Truly. But that the Real Trio of Roy Truly, OV Campbell and Jeraldean Reid (and several other female co-workers grouped around and in front of them - Carolyn Arnold, Bonnie Richey, Judy Johnson, Betty Dragoo and Virgie Baker), are seen at the very extreme right in the Wiegman film as it fleetingly captures the TSBD doorway.

Tommy coined the terms "Truly#1" for the guy who we have now proven is NOT the real Roy Truly; and "Truly#2" for the Truly he just discovered who is in front of, and a little East of, the TSBD steps - out by Elm Street. We have proven "Truly#2" is the REAL Truly. Truly#1 is now the conundrum.

And since DCA-Man and QM-Man are dressed similarly to Truly#1 - the one proven to NOT be Roy Truly - we have had long discussions about this. I was convinced based upon clear Wiegman stills of Truly #1 that were from Jack White slides that Robin Unger posted in an unrelated thread, that that man was not really Truly. And furthermore that he cannot be DCA-Man or QM-Man or Sooy - since he appears to have a chubby face and cheeks, a round, puggish nose and big sun glasses. Tommy however, thought they all looked similar enough to the same guy, and thought his face only appeared that way because he was smiling. So, while we both agreed that his Truly#2 was the REAL Truly - and Truly#1 was not..we continued to disagree on this other identification.

Well, yesterday I found photographic and physical proof that QM-Man cannot be Truly #1 standing on the island under the stoplight.

In Wiegman we see Truly #1 is standing with his feet planted firmly on the curb of the island under the stoplight - and in the clear Jack White version one can even see his left foot is even slightly overhanging the edge of the curb on Elm. Prior to yesterday, I had been looking at a closeup of QM Man I had cropped from Altgens 6 months ago - because I thought he resembled Sooy. But, yesterday I looked at him in the context of the full uncropped Altgens 6 and a lightbulb went off! I found proof he cannot be Truly#1. How? In Altgens 6 we can see a bit of Elm Street and the curb of the traffic island just behind the Queen Mary. We can also see the stoplight and street signs there on the island. We can't see Truly#1 because, I'm guessing, he is short and obscured by the Queen Mary but we can see a bit of the curb he is standing on and the stoplight and pole rising up above the QM. We know that is exactly where Truly#1 is standing because we have proof of it in the the Wiegman film. Not only are his feet firmly planted right on the curb - the tip of his left show is even overhanging the curb on Elm.

But in the uncropped version of Altgens6 we can also see that QM-Man is no where near that curb or that stoplight! He is seen far away to the left of the stoplight (ie north toward the TSBD) and in the distance. So he can't possibly be Truly#1. So, no matter who they are - they are 2 distinct individuals (see attached graphic i made - it's very wide so you may have to scroll accordingly).

QM-Man could be standing on the opposite side of the island; OR standing in the Elm Extension. But I posit due to the severe foreshortening weirdness that Altgens' lens causes that QM-Man could be much farther in the distance (east that is) from the island. And since i can't find him anywhere in Wiegman, he might even be out of frame, that is, beyond the "Real Truly" grouping seen on the very extreme right of Wiegman. This is also why i said if the coup (parked on/in Houston Street, by the SE corner of the TSBD near the DPD motorcycles) was his car, since it had people standing across Houston in front of it - then it might make sense that he got out of it and was standing nearby to view the motorcade, to the right of the TSBD doorway somewhere - east of the REAL Truly grouping.

a3q1QAp.png

Edit (9-21-15) - I just noticed my photo above was gone on here. I had accidently deleted the file on Imgur then rearranging photos; then when i re-uploaded it, the file had a new URL - which made it disappear here! I didn't think about that at the time. (I'm still getting the hang of that photo hosting site. It's low on ads which plague and slow viewing of photos on Photobucket for viewers, but, on the other hand is not very user friendly for the photo uploader to use! If anyone notices that any of my other photos on EF have disappeared and been replaced by the little black "Imgur" box stating that the photo is no longer found - please alert me to it so i can repost it! )

Edited by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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This is the only other photo i have of Sooy - I have other photos/gifs in my Sooy/Krystinik imjur album, but they aren't photos of Sooy and Krystinik, but documents - like his obit - newspaper clippings, the photo of the coup and this graphic i made above for example.
Here's the comparison i made using the other photo of Sooy i have (credit to James Richards!) - it's from the "late 50's" i remember hearing - I've compared him to numerous screen captures i took of the man in the DCA Film. I found in his military records that he retired in July 1960 - so the photo can't be any newer than that. He was probably at least 4 or 5 years older by 1963. (NB: his glasses are causing the a reflection/refraction of light on and magnification of his face - so it looks like he has lumpy pale cheeks - its just an optical illusion - his glasses are rimless or almost rimless and have slid down his nose. (and N.B. Sooy has big ears and so does DCA Man.

cySj3vG.png

Edited by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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Here's a comparison i made of Sooy and the QM-Man:
ZeJKh7U.png


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He and his first wife divorced (Josephine Zillah Moore Sooy) - from what i can ascertain from newspaper stories sometime after '62, he remarried Lt Cmdr Nadine Niehouse (Evelyn Nadine Niehouse) in it seems from this clipping August '63 - but it's worded a a little confusingly. She goes by "Evelyn Niehouse Sooy" or "Evelyn Nadine Sooy" and I believe she's still alive, though very elderly, and living in California.

She was the first female Cmdr. of the Dallas Naval Air Station. (EDIT 9-21-15 - I just reread this. As i said above this clipping is worded in a very confusing manner. She was NOT the first female Cmdr of the Dallas NAS! She was the Cmdr of the "WAVES Reserve Training Unit in Dallas". This may or may not have been at the Dallas NAS - that's not clear either. At any rate - she was not commanding everyone at the Dallas NAS - just the WAVEs Reserves. Sorry for any confusion. At any rate, she did have an important Naval commanding post in Dallas, but not over the men).



pL75tXr.pngs


Ok that's it for today! I need to sleep- I'm just exhausted!

Addendum: The Naval Air Station Dallas (or Hensley Field) is now called The Grand Prairie Armed Forces Reserve Complex.




Edited by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

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Here's a view of the Elm Ext. showing the No Parking Sign, which the QM-Man is standing to the left of (ie north of) and beyond. This image is from Robin Unger's gallery - i have annotated it to point things out:


v1rimFc.png

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