Was JFK hit Twice near the Stemmons Sign?

[Robert Prudhomme]

As JFK emerges from behind the Stemmons sign, he can be seen to be reacting to what is obviously a bullet wound. Just after he emerges, his elbows can be seen to come up, and he almost lunges forward in his seat.

Is it possible he was shot twice in the space of a second or two?

[Robert Prudhomme]

LOL...I just looked at the title and realized it sounds as if the Stemmons sign hit JFK. Could a moderator please change the word "by" for "near"?

[David Butler]

Title changed

[Robert Prudhomme]

Much better. Thank you. Wouldn't want to start a new conspiracy theory about JFK getting whacked by the Stemmons sign.

[Jon G. Tidd]

No one alive today knows how many bullets struck JFK, but I suspect he was hit multiple times, even simultaneously. So I can buy your idea, Robert.

[Glenn Nall]

I too have left those few seconds behind Stemmons open to possibilities. With no biased presupposition from having read beforehand any the multiple accounts of when which bullet hit who, or what, i had considered it pretty apparent that K is hit at least once behind the sign, or maybe just before it, because, you're right, he's already bringing his hands upward as they emerge - it also appears to me that he might be just beginning to raise his right arm, at least that we can see, more swiftly upward in reaction to a possible strike just before he goes behind the sign.

I haven't put a lot of thought or time into it as my interests are mostly focused elsewhere. But I surely haven't reached my own conclusion as to any millisecond timeline of Elm Street's events.

The other day i was looking at Z and it appeared to me that JC reacts physically to a second bullet strike, as well. I don't remember at which exact point it was, but at the point that he's already laid over on his wife and beginning to lean forward it appears to me that his forward motion seems to quickly speed up - and i think it's almost in time with one of the obvious K bullet strikes, but i can't remember. It made visual sense to me at the time, but i had had to move on to what i was doing (probably drifting off to sleep, since I just now remembered this).

correct me if i'm wrong, but the number and location of the wounds in C does not necessarily preclude him being hit by more than one bullet... [?] I'm aware he is known to only have 1 back wound [?], but ... i dunno, it's just something that appeared to me to be an odd second reaction...

I want to look more at the time lapse wrapped around the sign - it has nagged at me that there seems to be an awful lot of actions and sub-actions around that thing, both during the film and afterwards - the sign seems to want to lend itself directly to the mystery, as if it has its own secrets.

After all, it did abscond fairly well just after the crime...

there's also been talk of bullet strikes, or gunshots at least, up around zFrames 345ish...

things that make you go 'hmmm.'

Edited August 23, 2015 by Glenn Nall

[Robert Prudhomme]

I too have left those few seconds behind Stemmons open to possibilities. With no biased presupposition from having read beforehand any the multiple accounts of when which bullet hit who, or what, i had considered it pretty apparent that K is hit at least once behind the sign, or maybe just before it, because, you're right, he's already bringing his hands upward as they emerge - it also appears to me that he might be just beginning to raise his right arm, at least that we can see, more swiftly upward in reaction to a possible strike just before he goes behind the sign.

I haven't put a lot of thought or time into it as my interests are mostly focused elsewhere. But I surely haven't reached my own conclusion as to any millisecond timeline of Elm Street's events.

The other day i was looking at Z and it appeared to me that JC reacts physically to a second bullet strike, as well. I don't remember at which exact point it was, but at the point that he's already laid over on his wife and beginning to lean forward it appears to me that his forward motion seems to quickly speed up - and i think it's almost in time with one of the obvious K bullet strikes, but i can't remember. It made visual sense to me at the time, but i had had to move on to what i was doing (probably drifting off to sleep, since I just now remembered this).

correct me if i'm wrong, but the number and location of the wounds in C does not necessarily preclude him being hit by more than one bullet... [?] I'm aware he is known to only have 1 back wound [?], but ... i dunno, it's just something that appeared to me to be an odd second reaction...

I want to look more at the time lapse wrapped around the sign - it has nagged at me that there seems to be an awful lot of actions and sub-actions around that thing, both during the film and afterwards - the sign seems to want to lend itself directly to the mystery, as if it has its own secrets.

After all, it did abscond fairly well just after the crime...

there's also been talk of bullet strikes, or gunshots at least, up around zFrames 345ish...

things that make you go 'hmmm.'

Hi Glenn

Regarding Connally being hit a second (or third) time, I know exactly which frames you are referring to. This action begins at about frame z319, and we see Connally and his wife do their almost too rapid dive for the floor of the limo.

Are we witnessing a bullet strike, or is something else going on here?

If you study the frames closely, you can see that z319 is also the frame in which Greer and Kellerman begin their ead banging routine off of the dashboard of the limo. What a coincidence! Greer, Kellerman, Connally and Nellie all pitch forward at the same moment, as if someone has just slammed on the Lincoln's power brakes with their fancy aluminum front brake drums. Any of you that recall drive ford sedans from the early 60's will recall that Ford power brakes were the touchiest things going, and anti-lock braking systems had not even been thought of yet.

Not only did Greer slam the brakes on and stop the limo, he also swerved to the left and almost put Kellerman through the windshield. Like the large gaping wound in the right rear of JFK's head, there were simply too many witnesses that saw the limo stop (and swerve) for anyone to seriously try to deny it occurred.

The REALLY strange thing, though, is that, while four of the limo occupants are getting pitched forward by the hard brake application, JFK and Jackie do not show the slightest reaction. It is almost as if these two are not in the same car as the other four.

Z film altered? ABSOLUTELY!!

Edited August 23, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Kenneth Drew]

Much better. Thank you. Wouldn't want to start a new conspiracy theory about JFK getting whacked by the Stemmons sign.

What? He was hit by the sign? Never heard that one!

[Guest Joe Bundy]

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Edited January 4, 2016 by Joe Bundy

[Robert Prudhomme]

I've never considered it before but, JFK being shot in the back of the head at z229, with a frangible bullet, could definitely be a possibility. It would certainly explain his total lack of movement after that frame.

While many would claim that a bullet entering the back of the head should make a large exit wound on his face, this is not always the case. Bullets that expand rapidly (hollow points) or disintegrate entirely (frangible) are notorious for entering a skull, leaving only a tiny entrance wound, and not exiting; but wreaking utter havoc within the skull. Many years ago, I handloaded 110 grain hollow point bullets for a .308 deer rifle, in order to make head shots on deer (didn't want to waste any meat). The results varied. Sometimes, the bullets entered and did not exit; other times, the bullets entered and then made these great gaping exit wounds. Interestingly, these exit wounds sometimes were not even close to the expected path of the bullet, leading me to conclude that a bull (or fragment) did not even exit through one of these wounds but, rather, they were the site where intense hydraulic pressure found a vent.

With a head shot to the back of the head at z229, do you think it possible another bullet entered his back while he was behind the sign?

Edited August 30, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Guest Joe Bundy]

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Edited January 4, 2016 by Joe Bundy