Guest Duncan MacRae

PRAYER PERSON - PRAYER MAN OR PRAYER WOMAN? RESEARCH THREAD

1,089 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

I was born in East Slovakia, close to Hungarian and Ukrainian border, and moved to the Czech Republic to complete my studies, and ended up having a Czech citizenship. However, my third and current home is Liverpool, UK, for more than ten years now. I also lived in Minnesota as a Fulbright fellow for about six months. I  had a chance to know the US and the American people, and I like the US very much. The state of affairs in the USA is of importance for the whole world, and it certainly matters to me. However, my motivation to find out the truth about the assassination of President Kennedy dates further back, to my childhood years.

Ah good stuff. :) I think I had previously read somewhere on this forum you were in Liverpool... I must say my knowledge of Slovakia isn't too much; there was a Slovakian footballer, Vladimir Weiss, who played for the team I support, Glasgow Rangers, a few years ago. And I know thier team Captain, Martin Skrtel, played for Liverpool. Small world then. lol I digress. lol

8 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

I would appreciate your personal view on any Prayer Man issue as I can see the tremendous progress you made over a short period of time.

I'm always happy to throw out a personal opinion on something. Whether we agree or disagree on anything that's ok... my inbox is always open if you have any questions.

Regards

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There is talk in this thread that Frazier didn't commit perjury.

If Frazier has been telling the truth since the early 2000s, claiming to have see Oswald outside after the shooting, then of course he committed perjury. If he used a qualifier like "to the best of my recollection" before the WC, then he still perjured himself. Because 40 and 50 years later he still remember what happened.

If Frazier didn't lie in 1964, then he has been lying lately.

I'm not saying Frazier is an evil person. Only that he has lied.

One person here asks what difference the lie makes. It makes a lot of difference. It tells us that we can't trust Frazier's testimony. Don't make excuses for Frazier, by saying we all make mistakes or leave things out. Frazier's was a colossal mistake. Colossal because it was about the accused assassin... about his whereabouts.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

There is talk in this thread that Frazier didn't commit perjury.

If Frazier has been telling the truth since the early 2000s, claiming to have see Oswald outside after the shooting, then of course he committed perjury. If he used a qualifier like "to the best of my recollection" before the WC, then he still perjured himself. Because 40 and 50 years later he still remember what happened.

If Frazier didn't lie in 1964, then he has been lying lately.

I'm not saying Frazier is an evil person. Only that he has lied.

One person here asks what difference the lie makes. It makes a lot of difference. It tells us that we can't trust Frazier's testimony. Don't make excuses for Frazier, by saying we all make mistakes or leave things out. Frazier's was a colossal mistake. Colossal because it was about the accused assassin... about his whereabouts.

 

Thanks, Sandy, for expressing very clearly the impact of Mr. Frazier's altered version of important parts of the case. I see it the same way.

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19 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Prayer Man as Oswald is more alive than ever. This is something that confuses and hurts people like Miller, Doyle and so on. The blatant refusal to even entertain the idea.......my my.

You are not being truthful here - It was entertained and reasons have been given for why it is not Oswald. Your not agreeing with those reasons does not mean the idea wasn't entertained.

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4 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

You are not being truthful here - It was entertained and reasons have been given for why it is not Oswald. Your not agreeing with those reasons does not mean the idea wasn't entertained.

Rubbish, like Doyle you only grab one snippet and hammer it to death thinking it changes anything when it comes to the big picture.

You did jump in the Bill Kelley thread without even reading it beforehand.

And once your mistakes are pointed out, you squirm and try to wiggle your way out of it.

Smoke and mirrors Miller.......

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22 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Rubbish, like Doyle you only grab one snippet and hammer it to death thinking it changes anything when it comes to the big picture.

You did jump in the Bill Kelley thread without even reading it beforehand.

And once your mistakes are pointed out, you squirm and try to wiggle your way out of it.

Smoke and mirrors Miller.......

Where can we find your study on Prayer Man's girth to that of Oswalds?

 

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What girth?

Where do I find your studies?

I asked you first to show me where Oswald was wearing a slim fit shirt, coz the way I look at all the pix of him inside the DPD station....that shirt is quite loose, and that is without the ones after the tussle at the TT

Show us all.

 

Add on:

If you are so good at this photo interpretation thing then you are able to show clear image(s) that show this girth.

 

Edited by Bart Kamp

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On 2/9/2017 at 0:06 PM, Bill Miller said:

Hi Ron!  Your observation and others (right or wrong) certainly draws attention to how poor the image is for those wanting to know if it is Oswald or not. I do think however that this individual is too broad to be Lee. In this image he or she appears to be turned at a slight angle away from the camera which doesn't offer the total girth of this person. But even if we take the visible girth as it is and compare it to people who are far closer to the camera ... one can get a feel if the slim Lee Oswald should be as wide as this person labeled Prayer-Man seems to be.

I have taken several lines of equal width and have placed them on other people. I would suggest that anyone truly interested in knowing if this person could be Lee Oswald ... that they have someone skilled in Photogammetry determine the girth of this person. Of course that obligation should lay with those going to all  the trouble to have it be Lee. It just seems wrong to me that Prayer-Man when seen at a angle away from the camera should still be as wide as the man on the other side of Frazier who is seen from a straight on view.

 

girth copy.jpg

 

How about the amount of detail would not allow you to determine anything like this and that a better quality image is needed.

Placing a few lines on top of an image on a wide angle shot of which only a certain amount is shown (it's cropped) from a multi generational image isn't anything of scientific value either.

And if you are throwing this malarky into the ring and ask me to interpret then I'd say that the so called width of the lines points even more to a male person than a female. That combined with those lower arms makes it even more certain.

These lines mean nothing more than a similar exercise MacRae did and Doyle declared as gospel. And boy did that end up badly for the two of them, three actually Lamson was involved behind the curtains no doubt.

Perhaps this stuff would have had an effect 20 years ago on the internet, but things have moved on you know.

And the PM image, is only the icing on the cake. You can debate all this as long until the cows come home, but any layman doesn't need a lot of convincing that the images and the evidence clearly point that this is LHO.

There are 4/5 people here who are against that thought, yet there are literally thousands who think the opposite, you are in a clear minority here, hell you are practically non-existent.

 

 

Edited by Bart Kamp

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On 2/9/2017 at 1:57 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

A fairly comparable comparison with Prayer Man (in terms of perspective) is the guy standing to our right of Frazier, wearing light colored clothing.

On him Bill's white line just extends to the corners of his shoulders. Not so on PM. The left end of the line (our left) reaches out the the PM's elbow. And PM's elbow is extended away from his body.

Tell me something Sandy, does that line on Molina look as it was placed at the same angle?

What does this tell you?

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On 2/11/2017 at 7:46 PM, Bill Miller said:

Exactly ... the shadow being cast from the woman in the white coat can be seen morphing as she climbs the stairs. Her shadow can be seen in the two frames below along with the landing'.

In my world it is impossible to see through real people. I guess in your world all is needed is to wait for the right frame to come along where the shadows being cast morph together and then bump up the contrast  so to make them look like a portion of someone figure.

anigif_A_B.gif

Human-Hair-PM_kamp.jpg

OK say you are right. And in the past this bushy hair was used as a defence to Doyle's 'handbag' (don't ask....)

Then at the same time this dark spot does not correspond with Prayer Man's girth either. As a matter of fact it would have a slimming effect instead.

That is even in your faded gif noticeable 

 

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3 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

 

How about the amount of detail would not allow you to determine anything like this and that a better quality image is needed.

Placing a few lines on top of an image on a wide angle shot of which only a certain amount is shown (it's cropped) from a multi generational image isn't anything of scientific value either.

And if you are throwing this malarky into the ring and ask me to interpret then I'd say that the so called width of the lines points even more to a male person than a female. That combined with those lower arms makes it even more certain.

These lines mean nothing more than a similar exercise MacRae did and Doyle declared as gospel. And boy did that end up badly for the two of them, three actually Lamson was involved behind the curtains no doubt.

Perhaps this stuff would have had an effect 20 years ago on the internet, but things have moved on you know.

And the PM image, is only the icing on the cake. You can debate all this as long until the cows come home, but any layman doesn't need a lot of convincing that the images and the evidence clearly point that this is LHO.

There are 4/5 people here who are against that thought, yet there are literally thousands who think the opposite, you are in a clear minority here, hell you are practically non-existent.

 

I gather from all your Jibber-Jabber above that you have not conducted any type of study on your own to know if Lee Oswald's body width would equal that of  Prayer Man.

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2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

OK say you are right. And in the past this bushy hair was used as a defence to Doyle's 'handbag' (don't ask....)

Then at the same time this dark spot does not correspond with Prayer Man's girth either. As a matter of fact it would have a slimming effect instead.

That is even in your faded gif noticeable

A responsible way to determine Prayer Man's girth would be to find a point that is not mixed in with other people on the stairs. I chose the shoulders.

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8 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Tell me something Sandy, does that line on Molina look as it was placed at the same angle?

What does this tell you?

The lines are all the same length. There were places on mean and women. I chose a reference point that could be seen without being confused as being part of someone else. Oswald was pretty thin and was not very broad shouldered. It's seems to me that if Prayer Man had a said width between two points on his person (visible left and right side) and while rotated away from the camera, then that line could be used against others in the frame who appear broader shouldered than Oswald.

Someone can do the same test and create a line between to points on the body on Prayer Man. If Prayer Man is as wide as Molina who is facing the camera for example ... one must ask him or herself if Prayer Man is Oswald - should his shoulders be as wide as lets say .... Molina's?

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7 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

 

I gather from all your Jibber-Jabber above that you have not conducted any type of study on your own to know if Lee Oswald's body width would equal that of  Prayer Man.

Jibber jabber muhahahahhaa

 

First the coke, for which you never showed anything to back it up with..."I think, I read it somewhere, I cannot remember....."

Then the entry of Baker and Truly as per the NYHT article with the quote of OV Campbell, where there is no mention of ithem in there anywhere......and the squirming from you once confronted was unbecoming.

And now the girth....

 

Your failings and above all trying to mislead everyone with this rubbish makes one actually wonder:

Miller are you actually a researcher?

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