Freeport Sulphur, the Castro Plots, and the Indonesia Coup

[Chris Newton]

18 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Stratospere-level "Deciders" ( I'll just put Dulles at 35,000 feet, for arguments sake) get that job down to Hunt, and the likes. Algleton is bypassed and is the victim of a distraction campaign. On 11-22-63, he gets blindsided; and he can never admit to that.

Considering "the bomb" shenanigans and with the Isrealis and all the Assassinations and Coups that were the CIA modus Operandi. I'd put JJA and AWD on equal footing as possible co-conspirators along with someone in Military Intelligence.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Chris Newton
grammar

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Considering "the bomb" shenanigans and with the Isrealis and all the Assassinations and Coups that were the CIA modus Operandi. I'd put JJA and AWD on equal footing as possible co-conspirators along with someone in Military Intelligence.

That's a dozen theories rolled in to one.

thats a lot to unpack. 

I was hinting at an isolated dog-leg on a chunk of the JFKA.

Cheers,

Michael

[Michael Clark]

This was getting interesting. Bump.

[Paul Brancato]

On 5/14/2017 at 6:13 PM, Chris Newton said:

Considering "the bomb" shenanigans and with the Isrealis and all the Assassinations and Coups that were the CIA modus Operandi. I'd put JJA and AWD on equal footing as possible co-conspirators along with someone in Military Intelligence.

That's the way I see it too, maybe more than one somebody in MI, and with a little push from on high in the Eastern (Wall St.) Establishment. 

[Roger DeLaria]

I just received my copy of Poulgrain's The Incubus of Intervention. It took about 3 weeks coming form Singapore. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Paul Brancato]

Roger - Can't wait to hear about it.

[David Andrews]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:45 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

I don't think "the CIA" whacked Kennedy,

I think "the CIA" whacked Oswald.

Helms & Co knew that if the Garrison investigation went too far certain Agency guys like E. Howard Hunt would go down for the Kennedy assassination itself.

I speculate Allen Dulles was on that patsy chain.

Why does Oswald's killing have to be seen as desperate CYA?  I would say it was planned all along.  There were several opportunities that failed: Marrion Baker encounter; two cops searching McWatters' bus; the Texas Theater.  When Oswald's murder by cops failed, Ruby had to be sent in to make sure the patsy would not contradict his framing, which was always to be confirmed by his quick death.

[Roger DeLaria]

17 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Roger - Can't wait to hear about it.

It'll be awhile, as I'm in the middle of a very long novel.

[David McLean]

Cliff Varnell's argument pillorying Harriman as a mastermind  of the JFK assassination falls down thoroughly IMHO by the fact that Harriman was the leading Democrat in those "wise men";  sure an Establishment figure, and with his brother kingpins of BBHarriman, who Jock Whitney, Benno Schmidt(Texas buddy of David Rockefeller) and Prescott Bush worked for, if memory serves me.

Dulles, Lodge, McCloy, Earl Warren, Douglas Dillon, et al, were diehard Republicans. JFK's appointment of Lodge and numerous Rockefeller Republicans was his undoubtedly idealistic attempt at bi-partisanship, which sadly for the US and the rest of us, failed indeed backfired.

But please don't blame Averill Harriman. His work on the tripartite Laos Agreement was heroic but unsupported and sabotaged by CIA and others like Lodge to whom he had entrusted his SE Asian policies in that dark year of 1963. 

[David Andrews]

In the railroad barons' wars of the 19th century, E. H. Harriman was John D. Rockefeller's stooge and whipping boy (beleaguered through Rockefeller's alliance with J. P. Morgan's railroad interests).  The family relationship may have endured.

Edited May 30, 2017 by David Andrews

[Cliff Varnell]

On 5/28/2017 at 4:30 AM, David McLean said:

Cliff Varnell's argument pillorying Harriman as a mastermind  of the JFK assassination falls down thoroughly IMHO by the fact that Harriman was the leading Democrat in those "wise men";  sure an Establishment figure, and with his brother kingpins of BBHarriman, who Jock Whitney, Benno Schmidt(Texas buddy of David Rockefeller) and Prescott Bush worked for, if memory serves me.

[Emphasis added]

What was the extent of Averell Harriman's loyalty to the Democratic Party?

He ran for President in '52 and '56 but he didn't seriously challenge Adlai Stevenson.

He narrowly won Gov. of New York in '54 with help from the mobbed up boss of Tammany Hall Carmine De Sapio.

Harriman named De Sapio New York Secretary of State, one who could likely be suspected of helping heroin flood the streets of Harlem in the 50's.

Nelson Rockefeller ran against the "bossism" in the Harriman regime and crushed him in the '58 Gov. race.

There was only one job left for Harriman to covet -- Secretary of State.

In August of 1963 Harriman was the Under-Secretary for Political Affairs, the #3 spot at the State Dept.  He had two major accomplishments -- the '62 Geneva Accords on Laos, the the August '63 Test Ban Treaty with the Soviets.

He'd cultivated a close relationship with Bobby Kennedy and was counting on him to help get the SofS gig in the second Kennedy term.

On August 24 1963 he threw it all away.  He conspired with George Ball to bum rush Cable 243 past a golfing Kennedy on a day when many top officials were out of town.  They left Kennedy with the impression all the principals had signed off on Cable 243 and JFK didn't fully grasp the signficance of the Cable which gave Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge the green-light to organize a military coup against the Diem government.

Roger Hilsman and Michael Forrestal were useful idiots.

After the murder of Diem, which Kennedy had reason to believe was arranged by Harriman, Averell was out of the Vietnam biz.

He'd blown his shot at Sec of State by engineering the overthrow of Diem.  The partition of Laos and the continued militarization of South Vietnam was more important to him than the Sec of State job and the Democratic Party.

Keep in mind that Harriman was Roosevelt's #1 war hawk administered the Lend-Lease aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in 1940 while one of his banks financed 45% of Hitler's raw material purchases for the Nazi war machine.

The Soviets came up with the best Harriman meme -- "A capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him."

Quote

Dulles, Lodge, McCloy, Earl Warren, Douglas Dillon, et al, were diehard Republicans. JFK's appointment of Lodge and numerous Rockefeller Republicans was his undoubtedly idealistic attempt at bi-partisanship, which sadly for the US and the rest of us, failed indeed backfired.

Joseph Kennedy put his newly elected Prez son under the wing of Republican Robert Lovett, whose day job was partner at Brown Brothers Harriman bank.

On Lovett's recommendation JFK hired Dean Rusk (State), Robert McNamara (Defense), C. Douglas Dillon (Treasury) and McGeorge Bundy (National Security Adviser).

To whom did those guys owe their loyalty?

Quote

But please don't blame Averill Harriman.

If Harriman told LBJ a bit before 7pm 11/22/63 that the US government's top Kremlinologists were unanimous in the opinion that the Soviets had nothing to do with the JFK murder (as per Max Holland's reporting on White House tapes)-- he was lying.

There was no meeting of the US government's top Kremlinologists that day.

Why did Harriman lie?

Quote

His work on the tripartite Laos Agreement was heroic but unsupported and sabotaged by CIA and others like Lodge to whom he had entrusted his SE Asian policies in that dark year of 1963. 

The Laos agreement wasn't sabotaged.  The partition of Laos endured and provided the North Vietnamese the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the military invasion of South Vietnam, and on the western side the CIA/Koumintang got the opium trade and an intelligence penetration of China.

Lodge was a tool of Harriman's SE Asia policies.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:06 AM, David Andrews said:

Why does Oswald's killing have to be seen as desperate CYA?  I would say it was planned all along. 

You bet.

On 5/27/2017 at 8:06 AM, David Andrews said:

There were several opportunities that failed: Marrion Baker encounter; two cops searching McWatters' bus; the Texas Theater.  When Oswald's murder by cops failed, Ruby had to be sent in to make sure the patsy would not contradict his framing, which was always to be confirmed by his quick death.

The CIA had its fingerprints all over this.

[Paul Brancato]

Cliff - the way I read it, Henry Cabot Lodge was responsible for the Diem murder. You say that JFK had reason to believe that Harriman arranged it. Is there documentary evidence of this? Is there evidence that Lodge was simply following Harriman's orders? 

[Cliff Varnell]

5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Cliff - the way I read it, Henry Cabot Lodge was responsible for the Diem murder. You say that JFK had reason to believe that Harriman arranged it. Is there documentary evidence of this? Is there evidence that Lodge was simply following Harriman's orders? 

Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5:

<quote on>

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.”

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.”

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.”

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance.

<quote off>

[Cliff Varnell]

The Corson Scenario for the murder of the Ngo brothers finds a consistency with the Salandria/Feldman Scenario for the murder of Oswald and JFK.

Vincent Salandria: "Notes on Lunch with Arlen Specter on January 4, 2012"

http://archive.politicalassassinations.net/2012/11/1560/

<quote on>

I explained [to Specter] that the day after the Kennedy assassination I met with my then brother-in-law, Harold Feldman. We decided that if Oswald was the killer, and if the U.S. government were innocent of any complicity in the assassination, Oswald would live through the weekend. But if he was killed, then we would know that the assassination was a consequence of a high level U.S. government plot.

Harold Feldman and I also concluded that if Oswald was killed by a Jew, it would indicate a high level WASP plot. We further decided that the killing of Oswald would signal that no government investigation could upturn the truth. In that event we as private citizens would have to investigate the assassination to arrive at the historical truth.

<quote off>

Averell Harriman and McGeorge Bundy were the two top WASPs in the US government.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Cliff Varnell