Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Greg, I just did a quick search on your site regarding Mansfield, am I overlooking it, or you really had no earthly idea the part in which he played in the scale back and withdraw in the Vietnam war? Shall I give you a few days to provide info? Edited March 6, 2016 by Scott Kaiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) i am ordering a complete and immediate withdrawal from this topic. I always found this interesting: In the final analysis, it is their war. They have to win it or lose it. —John F. Kennedy, 1963 We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10,000 miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves. —Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1964 kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans There are a number of pieces of evidence that indicate JFK’s policy was one of disengagement. This evidence is both anecdotal and documentary in nature. This is some of ht4e anecdotal In 1968, (Ret.) General James M. Gavin stated: There has been much speculation about what President Kennedy would have done in Vietnam had he lived. Having discussed military affairs with him often and in detail for 15 years, I know he was totally opposed to the introduction of combat troops in southeast Asia. His public statements just before his murder support this view. Paul B. Fay, undersecretary of the Navy under JFK, stated: If John Kennedy had lived, our military involvement in Vietnam would have been over by the end of 1964. To Larry Newman, Kennedy said: “The first thing I do when I’m re-elected, I’m going to get the Americans out of Vietnam. Exactly how I’m going to do it, right now, I don’t know.” JFK also advised Robert McNamara: “We are not going to have men ground up in this fashion, this far away from home. I’m going to get these guys out because we’re not going to find ourselves in a war it is impossible to win. In 1963 Kennedy remarked to his aide Kenneth O’Donnell: In 1965, I’ll become one of the most unpopular presidents in history. I’ll be damned everywhere as a communist appeaser, but now I don’t care. If I tried to pull out completely now from Vietnam, we would have another Joe McCarthy red scare on our hands, but I can do it after I’m re-elected. So we had better make damned sure I’m re-elected. Senator Wayne Morse told the Boston Globe in 1973: There’s a weak defense of John Kennedy. He’d seen the error of his ways. I’m satisfied if he’d lived another year we’d have been out of Vietnam. Ten days before his assassination, I went down to the White House and handed him his education bills, which I was handling on the Senate floor. I’d been making two to five speeches a week against Kennedy on Vietnam. . . .I’d gone into President Kennedy’s office to discuss education bills, but he said, ‘Wayne, I want you to know you’re absolutely right in your criticism of my Vietnam policy. Keep this in mind. I’m in the midst of an intensive study which substantiates your position on Vietnam.’ Edited March 6, 2016 by Martin Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Greg, I just did a quick search on your site regarding Mansfield, am I overlooking it, or you really had no earthly idea the part in which he played in the scale back and withdraw in the Vietnam war. Scott, You have demonstrated a lack of willingness to expand your view of the world even when you encounter new (to you) evidence. You appear to make your mind up first and then ignore any evidence that tends to refute it. Mansfield was not JFK's chief military advisor...not by a long shot. Did he have influence? Yes. Was he instrumental? Probably. Was he integral to this decision making process? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) i am ordering a complete and immediate withdrawal from this topic. Here-here! LOL... Perhaps, I might help you in your dilemma, don't click on the post, problem solved? LOL... Greg, "I've demonstrated a lack of willingness to expand your view", and you know nothing about Mansfield. Yet, everything you've posted I already know. Now, who's truly misinformed? LOL... Edited March 6, 2016 by Scott Kaiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I suppose if we don't want to learn something new, we should "dictate" how the threads should post, an interesting theory for lack of education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? Edited March 6, 2016 by Scott Kaiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 When all else fails, order a complete and immediate withdrawal from the topic. Interesting, I for one must expand my cranium, my brain needs the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? i believe it was you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? i believe it was you What you can prove is one thing, what you believe, doesn't count, someone once said, I'll be soon swimming with a pool of sharks, I replied, more like guppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Scott - is it your purpose to derail this thread permanently into who knows more about how JFK made his decisions? Are you disputing the central claim of the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? i believe it was you What you can prove is one thing, what you believe, doesn't count, someone once said, I'll be soon swimming with a pool of sharks, I replied, more like guppies. guppies eat their young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Gavin, that was a new one for me. Thanks Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Scott: A few points worth making: 1) All researchers are not created equal. Some of the researchers you have engaged here and on the DPF have been at this for a long time and, despite my occasional disagreement with certain interpretations or conclusions, they have earned their gravitas and respect, they have made their bones and chops. You're a relative newbie at this and have not yet earned an automatic gravitas. By all means, make your claims, but they would be better accepted if you do it with more humility. This discussion is at a considerably higher level than a schoolyard fight. 2) It is said that it is impossible to prove a negative to a certainty: While it's often easy to prove that something did happen, it's much more difficult to prove that it didn't. How can you be so sure that it didn't happen, but that you (or your source) just didn't know about it? 3) It all comes down to citing evidence. Scholars cite sources and stand or fall on them. They don't make vague claims to have the evidence but not cite it. Frankly, the evidence cited by the others is pretty convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? Scott, you really don't know the source for this? Then you have not read Newman's book. He said it. Wow, if you have not read that book then why are you arguing this subject at all? It would be like arguing the RFK case without reading the Turner/Christian book. Edited March 7, 2016 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 kennedy was trying to disguise withdrawal plans and johnson escalation plans Oh, please! Who wrote this nonsense? Scott, you really don't know the source for this? Then you have not read Newman's book. He said it. Wow, if you have not read that book then why are you arguing this subject at all? It would be like arguing the RFK case without reading the Turner/Christian book. bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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