Ruby's Motive for Murder

[Jim Root]

Craig

Let me know what you dig up on Belasco.......I had to go deep but the few degrees of separation creates some interesting potential connections....maybe nothing except that Virginia comes on the Ruby scene just prior to the assassination.

Jim Root

[Craig Carvalho]

In reviewing the recorded session of Ruby's lie detector test I was intrigued by the second question during series three... "Did you tell anyone that you where thinking of shooting Oswald before you did it?"

This question prompted a serious debate which included many of the witnesses present at the time, including Ruby himself. During this back-and-forth, Ruby made this statement which I have highlighted...

Mr. Specter. Mr. Ruby, I don't want to leave any area of questionableness here or ambiguity---of course, you didn't say in your sleep this, so perhaps we ought to phrase it "Before you went to bed on Saturday night or early Sunday morning did you tell anyone you intended to shoot Oswald?"

Mr. Ruby. That's right.

Mr. Herndon. Would you repeat that,

Mr. Specter. Yes. "Before you went to bed------" What time did you go to bed that night?

Mr. Ruby. At 1:15 or 1:30, but you must put it specifically--also, whether I received any phone calls from the time I went to bed and the time I arose. Do you follow me? In other words, I could clear myself by answering that question truthfully, but I could have received a phone call in between the time I went to bed and the time I awakened.

This I believe may be linked to statements which Ruby made in his previous Warren Commission testimony...

Mr. Ruby. "... There was no one near me when I walked down that ramp, because if you will time the time I sent the money order, I think it was 10:17 Sunday morning. I think the actual act was committed--I take that back--was it 11 o'clock? You should know this.

Mr. Moore. 11: 21.

Mr. Ruby. No; when Oswald was shot.

Mr. Moore. I understood it to be 11:22.

Mr. Ruby. The clock stopped and said 11:21. I was watching on that thing; yes. Then it must have been 11:17, closer to 18. That is the timing when I left the Western Union to the time of the bottom of the ramp.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Rankin. There was a conversation with Mr. Sorrels in which you told him about the matter. Do you remember that?

Mr. Ruby. The only thing I ever recall I said to Mr. Ray Hall and Sorrels was, I said, "Being of Jewish faith, I wanted to show my love for my President and his lovely wife." After I said whatever I said, then a statement came out that someone introduced Mr. Sorrels to me and I said, "What are you, a newsman?" Or something to that effect. Which is really--what I am trying to say is, the way it sounded is like I was looking for publicity and inquiring if you are a newsman, I wanted to see you.
But I am certain--I don't recall definitely, but I know in my right mind, because I know my motive for doing it, and certainly to gain publicity to take a chance of being mortally wounded, as I said before, and who else could have timed it so perfectly by seconds. If it were timed that way, then someone in the police department is guilty of giving the information as to when Lee Harvey Oswald was coming down.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Craig Carvalho

[Ron Ecker]

Unfortunately, I can't locate my copy of Russ Baker's Family of Secrets, where I think that guy standing between Nixon and Prescott Bush is identified in a photo caption. I'd like to say it's the other "Jacob Rubenstein" who "worked for Nixon," but I can't be sure. Can anyone ID this guy for Paul?

The caption in Baker's book does not identify the man, who is not really standing between Nixon and Bush (as it may appear in the cropped photo) but is one of two men standing right behind them. The photo was taken in May 1953, and the man bears a resemblance to a young Jack Ruby.

[Michael Clark]

On 1/15/2007 at 7:22 AM, Greg Parker said:

Bill, Huffaker was an army reservist based at Fort Hood. That, coupled with his career in the media may indicate he was working military intelligence. His name was appears on a DPD list of people believed to hold information on a Ruby-Oswald connection. Others on the list included Pixie Lynn and George Butler. You can find what PL and GB had in that regard (PL supposedly told a barman that Ruby ad Oswald were attending gay parties - GB claimed he had info indicating Oswald was Ruby's bastard son) but all you'll ffind when looking for what Huffaker had to say is a report saying THAT report was already filed.

[Michael Clark]

On 5/13/2016 at 11:21 AM, Craig Carvalho said:

In reviewing the recorded session of Ruby's lie detector test I was intrigued by the second question during series three... "Did you tell anyone that you where thinking of shooting Oswald before you did it?"

This question prompted a serious debate which included many of the witnesses present at the time, including Ruby himself. During this back-and-forth, Ruby made this statement which I have highlighted...

Mr. Specter. Mr. Ruby, I don't want to leave any area of questionableness here or ambiguity---of course, you didn't say in your sleep this, so perhaps we ought to phrase it "Before you went to bed on Saturday night or early Sunday morning did you tell anyone you intended to shoot Oswald?"

Mr. Ruby. That's right.

Mr. Herndon. Would you repeat that,

Mr. Specter. Yes. "Before you went to bed------" What time did you go to bed that night?

Mr. Ruby. At 1:15 or 1:30, but you must put it specifically--also, whether I received any phone calls from the time I went to bed and the time I arose. Do you follow me? In other words, I could clear myself by answering that question truthfully, but I could have received a phone call in between the time I went to bed and the time I awakened.

This I believe may be linked to statements which Ruby made in his previous Warren Commission testimony...

Mr. Ruby. "... There was no one near me when I walked down that ramp, because if you will time the time I sent the money order, I think it was 10:17 Sunday morning. I think the actual act was committed--I take that back--was it 11 o'clock? You should know this.

Mr. Moore. 11: 21.

Mr. Ruby. No; when Oswald was shot.

Mr. Moore. I understood it to be 11:22.

Mr. Ruby. The clock stopped and said 11:21. I was watching on that thing; yes. Then it must have been 11:17, closer to 18. That is the timing when I left the Western Union to the time of the bottom of the ramp.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Rankin. There was a conversation with Mr. Sorrels in which you told him about the matter. Do you remember that?

Mr. Ruby. The only thing I ever recall I said to Mr. Ray Hall and Sorrels was, I said, "Being of Jewish faith, I wanted to show my love for my President and his lovely wife." After I said whatever I said, then a statement came out that someone introduced Mr. Sorrels to me and I said, "What are you, a newsman?" Or something to that effect. Which is really--what I am trying to say is, the way it sounded is like I was looking for publicity and inquiring if you are a newsman, I wanted to see you.
But I am certain--I don't recall definitely, but I know in my right mind, because I know my motive for doing it, and certainly to gain publicity to take a chance of being mortally wounded, as I said before, and who else could have timed it so perfectly by seconds. If it were timed that way, then someone in the police department is guilty of giving the information as to when Lee Harvey Oswald was coming down.

 

From all of the testimony I have read so far, Jack Ruby is, by far, given the most latitude, deference and freedom to direct the questioning.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

On 5/13/2016 at 11:47 AM, Ron Ecker said:

The caption in Baker's book does not identify the man, who is not really standing between Nixon and Bush (as it may appear in the cropped photo) but is one of two men standing right behind them. The photo was taken in May 1953, and the man bears a resemblance to a young Jack Ruby.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

....

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 3:53 PM, Craig Carvalho said:

This is a question I have been closely examining for the past several months. I recently read the late Seth Kantor's book, Who Was Jack Ruby?.

I believe Kantor's allegation that Ruby was in fact at PMH just before the announcement of the president's passing. Why would Ruby lie about this?

...

Ruby pleaded with Earl Warren to be taken to Washington. When pressed by chief justice Warren as to why Ruby feared for his life and that of his family's, Ruby stated, "There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization--take it for what it is worth, Chief Justice Warren."

Regards,

Craig C.

Craig,

Perhaps most important about Seth Kantor's excellent book, Who Was Jack Ruby? (1978) was that Seth Kantor knew Jack Ruby personally in Dallas for many years, and was convinced of two propositions:

(1) Jack Ruby had no part in the JFK assassination; and
(2) Jack Ruby was manipulated into killing LHO at the prodding of the Dallas Police.

According to Seth Kantor (who was also a WC witness, for those who are interested in the original sources), the Dallas Police were closest to the JFK assassination, and they were also closest to the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Therefore, Seth Kantor's 1978 book also accidentally supports the book by professor Walt Brown, Treachery in Dallas (1995) which makes a case for the DPD police killing JFK.  

Also, Seth Kantor's 1978 book accidentally supports the book by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy; the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015), which also portrays the DPD police working hand-in-hand with General Walker.

These CT's are closer to solving the JFK assassination than fifty years worth of CIA-did-it CT's.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited February 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Clark]

29 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Craig,

Perhaps most important about Seth Kantor's excellent book, Who Was Jack Ruby? (1978) was that Seth Kantor knew Jack Ruby personally in Dallas for many years, and was convinced of two propositions:

(2) Jack Ruby was manipulated into killing LHO at the prodding of the Dallas Police.

 

These CT's are closer to solving the JFK assassination than fifty years worth of CIA-did-it CT's.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo

The threat that Ruby was under had to be far greater than being just a threat to his personal safety. It had to be a threat to his entire family or possibly to the Jewish people as a whole (White Russian Jews? Zionist Jews?). Guilt had to rest on Oswald or something major was going to happen. Simple manipulation by the DPD is not enough to explain it, IMHO.

 

Cheers,

Michael

Edited February 10, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Trejo]

16 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

The threat that Ruby was under had to be far greater than being just a threat to his personal safety. It had to be a threat to his entire family or possibly to the Jewish people as a whole (White Russian Jews? Zionist Jews?). Guilt had to rest on Oswald or something major was going to happen. Simple manipulation by the DPD is not enough to explain it, IMHO.

Cheers,

Michael

Michael,

I don't believe that Jack Ruby was under much of any threat when he killed LHO.   It was not until he was arrested and held by the same people who put him up to the killing that Jack Ruby became as batty as the Mad Hatter.

IMHO, Jack Ruby was coaxed into killing LHO -- pressured not by threats, but by promises of fame, heroism and "friendship" by rogues in the Dallas Police Department (DPD).

IMHO, the coaxing was something like this.  "Jack, buddy boy, be our friend!  Don't you want to be our best friend?  This guy Oswald is a cop-killer.   How can you let a cop-killer get away with that?  We thought you were our friend!  You gotta help us out here, buddy boy.   You know you'll get away with it.  Probably just a slap on the wrist.  Everybody wants Oswald dead.  The whole USA wants Oswald dead.  In fact, you'll probably become a national hero!  You know you'll always be a hero to us.  Come on, Jack.  Don't you want to be our hero?"

IMHO, Jack Ruby was coaxed into believing that he would get away with killing Oswald.  He would plead insanity or something like that, and just go free in a few months, and then become a national hero, go on TV interviews, and become a celebrity.

IMHO, Jack Ruby was completely surprised when the same people who talked him into killing Oswald not only looked the other way after he was arrested, but then began sending him threats if he talked.

IMHO, Jack Ruby then went batty, and his natural paranoia festered and expanded, and he began to worry about threats to his family, and fantasies about another Auschwitz.  In other words, his ego was so inflated he believed he himself would become the cause of another global disaster involving his whole people.

But that was Jack's fantasy.  According to Seth Kantor, the truth about Jack Ruby was simple, because Jack Ruby had a simple mind.   He was easily convinced of his own importance, because, as a professional pimp, his self-esteem was so low that these fantasies about himself were his first resort.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[David Andrews]

Paul, I prefer to interpret the nature of the influence on Ruby from the hints he dropped on news film and in his Warren Commission testimony.  Even in the places where he was speaking irrationally, real fears may about "forces" may have been expressed.

[Paul Trejo]

57 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Paul, I prefer to interpret the nature of the influence on Ruby from the hints he dropped on news film and in his Warren Commission testimony.  Even in the places where he was speaking irrationally, real fears may about "forces" may have been expressed.

David,

In that context, let's review the testimony of Jack Ruby.  Here's an extract:

Mr. RUBY. At that time when you first got the letter and I was begging Joe Tonahill and the other lawyers to know the truth about me, certain things that are happening now wouldn't be happening at this particular time.

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes? 

Mr. RUBY. Because then they would have known the truth about Jack Ruby and his emotional breakdown. 

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes? 

Mr. RUBY. Of why that Sunday morning--that thought never entered my mind prior to that Sunday morning when I took it upon myself to try to be a martyr or some screwball, you might say...Consequently, right at this moment I am being victimized as a part of a plot in the.world's worst tragedy and crime at this moment...At this moment, Lee Harvey Oswald isn't guilty of committing the crime of assassinating President Kennedy. Jack Ruby is. How can I fight that, Chief Justice Warren? 

Chief Justice WARREN. Well now, I want to say, Mr. Ruby, that as far as this Commission is concerned, there is no implication of that in what we are doing. 

Mr. RUBY. All right, there is a certain organization here---- 

Chief Justice WARREN. That I can assure you. 

Mr. RUBY. There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization -- take it for what it is worth, Chief Justice Warren.  Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get in power, because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives.  Don't register with you, does it? 

Chief Justice WARREN. No; I don't understand that. 

Mr. RUBY. Would you rather I just delete what I said and just pretend that nothing is going on? 

Chief Justice WARREN. I would not indeed. I am only interested in what you want to tell this Commission.That is all I am interested in. 

Mr. RUBY. Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know that. My family's lives will be gone...

So, what I see there is Jack Ruby's inflated sense of self-importance.  Jack is the center of the world's attention.  Jack is responsible, not only for the fate of his whole family, but is also the center of "the world's worst tragedy and crime at this moment." 

I sense a dim sense of frustrated heroism in his testimony.  When Jack speaks about Auschwitz and how this is going to happen again, I get the sense that Jack wishes to rise to stop it, single-handed.  Jack is living in a fantasy world -- yet he is also expressing the Antisemitism of the early 1960's in Dallas, which was a real force, even among his Dallas cop friends.  Bernie Weissman would also speak about Dallas Antisemitism in his own WC testimony.

But Jack named the culprits explicitly -- the John Birch Society, he said, and ex-General Edwin Walker.  This is remarkable, IMHO.  It matches what ATF agent Frank Ellsworth said to the FBI during the WC proceedings, namely, that the most likely forces in Dallas that would kill JFK were the Minutemen, led by ex-General Edwin Walker.   (The Minutemen have been called the paramilitary arm of the John Birch Society.)  These were real forces.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited February 11, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Barry Sampson]

This is just a tidbit to add fuel to the fire. LHO left his home at 1026 north Beckley and walked to 10th and Patton, where he was intercepted by JD Tippit. Even the HSCA seemed a bit perplexed about LHO's possible reason for walking in this direction.

Mr. Edgar of the HSCA later asked Gerald R. Ford Jr. to speculate as to where Lee H. Oswald was going at the time of the Tippit shooting. Mr. Edgar also asked Gerald R. Ford Jr. if he had gone to Jack Ruby’s residence as part of his Dallas investigation (June 7, 1964), when he was re-tracing Oswald’s footsteps. Ford said he would have to refresh his memory in order to answer these questions. HSCA vol 3 Ford pg592

If we look on a map, 1026 N. Beckley is 9 tenths of a mile from 10th and Patton, in a nearly strait line to Jack Ruby and George Senator's apartment at 223 S. Ewing. From 10th and Patton to 223 S. Ewing is 4 tenths of a mile.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Mr. RUBY. All right, there is a certain organization here---- 

Chief Justice WARREN. That I can assure you. 

Mr. RUBY. There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization -- take it for what it is worth, Chief Justice Warren.  Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get in power, because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives.  Don't register with you, does it? 

Chief Justice WARREN. No; I don't understand that. 

Mr. RUBY. Would you rather I just delete what I said and just pretend that nothing is going on? 

Chief Justice WARREN. I would not indeed. I am only interested in what you want to tell this Commission.That is all I am interested in. 

Mr. RUBY. Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know that. My family's lives will be gone...

When Lee Oswald said spontaneously to the press the night of 11,22,1963 " I am just a patsy" my "simple mind" didn't automatically look for something abstract beyond the literal meaning of his words.

And to this day, 54 years later, with everything I've read and heard I still feel comfortable with Oswald's "Patsy" claim being just what he stated.

Oswald was "simply" a patsy.

I used to sometimes speculate about whether Oswald meant something else in those 5 words, but eventually I would always come back to their literalness as being more logical than my speculations and wonder why I was looking for something more complicated.

Same goes for simple minded Ruby and his statements to the Warren Commission:

 "Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get in power. because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives."

I think it's reasonable to assume when Ruby was talking about power, he meant nothing less than the presidency ... and so this to me equated into Lyndon Baines Johnson and all those who would benefit by his ascent, including big oil, J. Edgar Hoover, the intelligence community and parts of the military who saw JFK as the enemy to their interests.

Probably Walker and his following also which of course included many in the Dallas PD. And don't forget the Mafia.

And when Ruby states "Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know that. My family's lives will be gone..."

Ruby was again stating his simple minded but honest thoughts that he now knew that these powerful people and groups would remove him if he said anymore of the truth about Oswald and his act of killing him, to whoever he thought may still have a chance to counter their power.

And when Ruby said "My family's lives" again I see this as literally dealing with his immediate family of brothers and sisters. I don't think he was thinking that these nefarious power groups would start locking up large groups of Jews in camps.

Ruby knew that threatening one's family was a long time tradition of the Mafia and probably most other secret power groups to keep one quiet.

On another note, remember Sheriff Al Maddox stating in his later life interview ( available on Youtube ) that Ruby had passed him a note saying "it was a conspiracy" and the amazing Ruby comment caught on tape where he says to a reporter he is being escorted past... that the answer to the reporters question is that if Adlai Stevenson was the vice president this wouldn't have happened? " and " The man in office now." meaning the presidency.

Here again, I come back to simple statements by simple minded people not always being more complicated than their literal meaning. 

Some other thoughts and questions about Jack Ruby. If he was so enamored of JFK and his beautiful wife Jackie as he claimed , why would he hole up ( almost hiding out)  in a downtown newspaper's offices ( right next to the motorcade route!) during the entire motorcade?

His seeming indifference to taking advantage of this rare chance of seeing his beloved idols in person is totally illogical based on what we all know of Jack Ruby...a person who liked to be where the action was.

And lastly, to take nutty Jack Ruby's word over sane, educated, calm and together Seth Kantor regards Kantor's claim of seeing and even talking to Jack Ruby at Parkland the afternoon of 11,22,193...is imo one of the most illogical and suspicious acts of the WC. 

Edited February 12, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[David Andrews]

On 2/11/2017 at 11:24 AM, Paul Trejo said:

David,

In that context, let's review the testimony of Jack Ruby.  Here's an extract:

Mr. RUBY. At that time when you first got the letter and I was begging Joe Tonahill and the other lawyers to know the truth about me, certain things that are happening now wouldn't be happening at this particular time.

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes? 

Mr. RUBY. Because then they would have known the truth about Jack Ruby and his emotional breakdown. 

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes? 

Mr. RUBY. Of why that Sunday morning--that thought never entered my mind prior to that Sunday morning when I took it upon myself to try to be a martyr or some screwball, you might say...Consequently, right at this moment I am being victimized as a part of a plot in the.world's worst tragedy and crime at this moment...At this moment, Lee Harvey Oswald isn't guilty of committing the crime of assassinating President Kennedy. Jack Ruby is. How can I fight that, Chief Justice Warren? 

Chief Justice WARREN. Well now, I want to say, Mr. Ruby, that as far as this Commission is concerned, there is no implication of that in what we are doing. 

Mr. RUBY. All right, there is a certain organization here---- 

Chief Justice WARREN. That I can assure you. 

Mr. RUBY. There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization -- take it for what it is worth, Chief Justice Warren.  Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get in power, because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives.  Don't register with you, does it? 

Chief Justice WARREN. No; I don't understand that. 

Mr. RUBY. Would you rather I just delete what I said and just pretend that nothing is going on? 

Chief Justice WARREN. I would not indeed. I am only interested in what you want to tell this Commission.That is all I am interested in. 

Mr. RUBY. Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know that. My family's lives will be gone...

So, what I see there is Jack Ruby's inflated sense of self-importance.  Jack is the center of the world's attention.  Jack is responsible, not only for the fate of his whole family, but is also the center of "the world's worst tragedy and crime at this moment." 

I sense a dim sense of frustrated heroism in his testimony.  When Jack speaks about Auschwitz and how this is going to happen again, I get the sense that Jack wishes to rise to stop it, single-handed.  Jack is living in a fantasy world -- yet he is also expressing the Antisemitism of the early 1960's in Dallas, which was a real force, even among his Dallas cop friends.  Bernie Weissman would also speak about Dallas Antisemitism in his own WC testimony.

But Jack named the culprits explicitly -- the John Birch Society, he said, and ex-General Edwin Walker.  This is remarkable, IMHO.  It matches what ATF agent Frank Ellsworth said to the FBI during the WC proceedings, namely, that the most likely forces in Dallas that would kill JFK were the Minutemen, led by ex-General Edwin Walker.   (The Minutemen have been called the paramilitary arm of the John Birch Society.)  These were real forces.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

And he implicated Lyndon Johnson on news film.  But who did he leave out among his close associations?  The Mob, the Cubans, the CIA.  Ruby's playing a game here, and in all he said after his arrest.

P.S. - I knew you were going to go all Bircher on me when I wrote that, so it's not like I let you sweep across the board to checkmate.  Like the groups I named above, were the Birchers capable of managing all levels of the assassination and coverup?

Edited February 12, 2017 by David Andrews