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Vince Palamara

MAJOR discovery- the biggest "coincidence" ever?

32 posts in this topic

(CLICK ON THE LINK FOR THE IMAGES- too big to post here, as usual:)

https://vincepalamara.com/2016/10/15/lee-harvey-oswald-and-chuck-zboril-served-together-in-the-same-marine-corps-unit/

I made a major discovery tonight that is so mind blowing I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. While doing research for author TC Elliott, I decided to peruse a document only released in 1998, the official Marine Corps Unit Diaries, RG 127, Camp Pendleton, CA 1957-01-20 to 1957-02-26. As most people know (so common I grabbed this from an online encyclopedia) “Lee Harvey Oswald was sent to Camp Pendleton for advanced infantry combat training. Oswald completed his training between 20th January 1957 and 26th February 1957 as a member of QUA Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment, Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton, California”: one of many true facts no one disputes; in the category of “there is a sun and there is a moon; duh!”
GUESS WHO ELSE was a member of QUA Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment, Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton, California at the very same time and never told anyone, at least not in public for books, articles, or the television interviews he has done: JFK White House Detail Secret Service Agent Charles T. “Chuck” Zboril—!!! Zboril was brand new to the detail, joining in the Fall of 1963. He famously rode on the rear of President Kennedy’s limousine in Tampa, Florida on 11/18/63 (the trip BEFORE the fatal Texas journey) and, infamously and controversially, was allegedly ordered to get off the limo (by JFK, which is bunk, but I digress for now), which is regularly brought up as causing great peril to JFK four short days later…WHEN HIS MARINE UNIT “BUDDY” WAS ALLEGEDLY TAKING AIM EXACTLY WHERE CHUCK COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN—-!!!! What are the chances of this bizarre connection: are we talking DNA numbers?!?! And, again, Zboril, who contributed to Gerald Blaine’s THE KENNEDY DETAIL (doing part of the book tour and local Florida television interviews), a major PBS documentary on the 11/18/63 trip, and several other media outlets, never uttered a WORD about this connection! Zboril served from JFK to Carter on the White House Detail, as well as other details and duties within the agency. I spoke to Zboril at length in 1995 and he never mentioned this (Zboril went on to write a one-star review of my first book. He is not a fan).

From John Armstrong’s work: “On October 24, HARVEY and three other Marine recruits boarded an American Airlines flight to San Diego. Oswald and the 3 men from Dallas were assigned to Platoon 2060, along with a young man from Wisconsin named Allen R. Felde. Following boot camp these 8 marines from Platoon 2060 were transferred to Camp Pendleton for infantry training. They shared the same tent and Allen Felde and HARVEY Oswald spent a lot of time together. Felde told the FBI that Oswald continually discussed politics, championed the cause of the working man, and was “left-winged.”
In the fall of 1956, while HARVEY Oswald and Allen Felde were stationed at San Diego, LEE Oswald was at the Marine Corps Air Facility at El Toro, CA, 10 miles south of Camp Pendleton. It was in El Toro that Sergeant Wallace Ransberger first met Private First Class LEE Oswald, and a year later associated with him at Atsugi, Japan. Ransberger and LEE Oswald were assigned to the same unit and their duties were to furnish repair parts for vehicles and generators. In early 1957 Sergeant Donald Goodwin was assigned to Camp Pendleton and supervised a group of 20 men in the 5th Marine division, one of whom was radio communicator LEE Oswald, Private 1st class.”

From the Warren Report: “On January 18, 1957, he reported to Camp Pendleton, Calif., for further training and was assigned to “A” Company of the First Battalion, Second Infantry Training Regiment.303 He was at Pendleton for a little more than 5 weeks, at the end of which he was rated 4.2 in conduct and 4.0 in proficiency.304 Allen R. Felde, a fellow recruit who was with Oswald at San Diego and Pendleton, has stated that Oswald was generally unpopular and that his company was avoided by the other men.305 When his squad was given its first weekend leave from Pendleton, all eight men took a cab to Tijuana, Mexico. Oswald left the others and did not rejoin them until it was time to return to camp. Felde said that this practice was repeated on other trips to Los Angeles; Oswald accompanied the men on the bus to and from camp but did not stay with them in the city.306 On February 27, he went on leave for 2 weeks,307 during which he may have visited his mother in Fort Worth.308”

HIDELL/ZBORIL???

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(CLICK ON THE LINK FOR THE IMAGES- too big to post here, as usual:)

https://vincepalamara.com/2016/10/15/lee-harvey-oswald-and-chuck-zboril-served-together-in-the-same-marine-corps-unit/

I made a major discovery tonight that is so mind blowing I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. While doing research for author TC Elliott, I decided to peruse a document only released in 1998, the official Marine Corps Unit Diaries, RG 127, Camp Pendleton, CA 1957-01-20 to 1957-02-26. As most people know (so common I grabbed this from an online encyclopedia) “Lee Harvey Oswald was sent to Camp Pendleton for advanced infantry combat training. Oswald completed his training between 20th January 1957 and 26th February 1957 as a member of QUA Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment, Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton, California”: one of many true facts no one disputes; in the category of “there is a sun and there is a moon; duh!”

GUESS WHO ELSE was a member of QUA Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment, Marine Corps Base, Camp Pendleton, California at the very same time and never told anyone, at least not in public for books, articles, or the television interviews he has done: JFK White House Detail Secret Service Agent Charles T. “Chuck” Zboril—!!! Zboril was brand new to the detail, joining in the Fall of 1963. He famously rode on the rear of President Kennedy’s limousine in Tampa, Florida on 11/18/63 (the trip BEFORE the fatal Texas journey) and, infamously and controversially, was allegedly ordered to get off the limo (by JFK, which is bunk, but I digress for now), which is regularly brought up as causing great peril to JFK four short days later…WHEN HIS MARINE UNIT “BUDDY” WAS ALLEGEDLY TAKING AIM EXACTLY WHERE CHUCK COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN—-!!!! What are the chances of this bizarre connection: are we talking DNA numbers?!?! And, again, Zboril, who contributed to Gerald Blaine’s THE KENNEDY DETAIL (doing part of the book tour and local Florida television interviews), a major PBS documentary on the 11/18/63 trip, and several other media outlets, never uttered a WORD about this connection! Zboril served from JFK to Carter on the White House Detail, as well as other details and duties within the agency. I spoke to Zboril at length in 1995 and he never mentioned this (Zboril went on to write a one-star review of my first book. He is not a fan).

From John Armstrong’s work: “On October 24, HARVEY and three other Marine recruits boarded an American Airlines flight to San Diego. Oswald and the 3 men from Dallas were assigned to Platoon 2060, along with a young man from Wisconsin named Allen R. Felde. Following boot camp these 8 marines from Platoon 2060 were transferred to Camp Pendleton for infantry training. They shared the same tent and Allen Felde and HARVEY Oswald spent a lot of time together. Felde told the FBI that Oswald continually discussed politics, championed the cause of the working man, and was “left-winged.”

In the fall of 1956, while HARVEY Oswald and Allen Felde were stationed at San Diego, LEE Oswald was at the Marine Corps Air Facility at El Toro, CA, 10 miles south of Camp Pendleton. It was in El Toro that Sergeant Wallace Ransberger first met Private First Class LEE Oswald, and a year later associated with him at Atsugi, Japan. Ransberger and LEE Oswald were assigned to the same unit and their duties were to furnish repair parts for vehicles and generators. In early 1957 Sergeant Donald Goodwin was assigned to Camp Pendleton and supervised a group of 20 men in the 5th Marine division, one of whom was radio communicator LEE Oswald, Private 1st class.”

From the Warren Report: “On January 18, 1957, he reported to Camp Pendleton, Calif., for further training and was assigned to “A” Company of the First Battalion, Second Infantry Training Regiment.303 He was at Pendleton for a little more than 5 weeks, at the end of which he was rated 4.2 in conduct and 4.0 in proficiency.304 Allen R. Felde, a fellow recruit who was with Oswald at San Diego and Pendleton, has stated that Oswald was generally unpopular and that his company was avoided by the other men.305 When his squad was given its first weekend leave from Pendleton, all eight men took a cab to Tijuana, Mexico. Oswald left the others and did not rejoin them until it was time to return to camp. Felde said that this practice was repeated on other trips to Los Angeles; Oswald accompanied the men on the bus to and from camp but did not stay with them in the city.306 On February 27, he went on leave for 2 weeks,307 during which he may have visited his mother in Fort Worth.308”

HIDELL/ZBORIL???

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There goes the neighbourhood, Vince.

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Vince,

To play devil's advocate, since a company can be composed of as many as 250 men, it's possible that Zboril and Oswald didn't know each other, particularly if they were in different platoons. (Do the separate rosters in your photos represent platoons?) And Zboril may not have later become aware that they were in the same company if he did not know or read much about the details of Oswald's military career.

It's also possible that if Zboril and Oswald did know each other, or if Zboril later became aware they had been in the same company, Zboril may not have ever mentioned it because it's obviously the kind of thing that can feed into conspiracy theories. He may even have been ordered by a superior not to mention it, just as FBI agent James Hosty was ordered to destroy his note from Oswald.

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Thank you for this, Vince. The Zboril link sounds fascinating. I wonder if... as plans for the plot against JFK were being made in the summer and fall of 1963, this fellow didn't think back and wonder about that fellow in his company.

The long Marine Corps chapter in Harvey and Lee remains, to me, the clearest evidence of all about what CIA accountant James Wilcott called "the Oswald project." You can just see the two guys following sometimes parallel paths but with two completely different groups of soldiers. Reading the unit diaries makes the whole thing abundantly clear. You can see how one Oswald constantly spoke Russian and read Russian literature while the other didn't, how one got drunk and visited prostitutes while the other was a teetotaler, how one shot himself in the left arm and the other didn't, and on and on. Thanks again.

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Thanks, Jim, Ron and Ray. Oh, I agree- could be just a wild coincidence of epic proportions. Still, at the risk of sounding like a "theorist", there was 2.5 billion people on the planet back in 1963. Two guys served in the very same unit in the Marines. One rides on the rear of President Kennedy's limousine 11/18/63 (Florida), while the other allegedly takes advantage of his absence on 11/22/63, the very next trip (Texas). You CAN imagine my shock when I came across his name late night doing (isn't it always like this?) unrelated research. Charles T. Zboril (he is 80 years old now), who served in the Marines...no doubt it IS "the" Charles T. Zboril. Zboril never mentioned this and it would have been lost forever if not for a total accidental discovery last night.

No matter what, you must admit- pretty bizarre. Ron: keep firmly in mind the Paine connection to Dulles in this context.

POST SCRIPT: I am persona non grata with Zboril (no surprise- see my book). A friend of mine IS going to call him (he lives in Florida- of course) and ask him about this (without acknowledging that he knows me- otherwise, there will be a click on the other end).

Vince

Edited by Vince Palamara

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I agree- could be just a wild coincidence of epic proportions. Still, at the risk of sounding like a "theorist", there was [sic] 2.5 billion people on the planet back in 1963. Two guys served in the very same unit in the Marines. One rides on the rear of President Kennedy's limousine 11/18/63 (Florida), while the other allegedly takes advantage of his absence on 11/22/63, the very next trip (Texas). You CAN imagine my shock when I came across his name late night doing (isn't it always like this?) unrelated research. Charles T. Zboril (he is 80 years old now), who served in the Marines...no doubt it IS "the" Charles T. Zboril. Zboril never mentioned this and it would have been lost forever if not for a total accidental discovery last night.

No matter what, you must admit- pretty bizarre.

Yes, but you must remember, Vince, that "bizarre" and seemingly impossible (or highly improbable) coincidences do occur all the time. There's the alleged "Oswald/Ferrie connection" in the Civil Air Patrol photo which was unearthed in the 1990s. (That's a whole other debate entirely, of course.)

Plus, there's the incredible coincidence which has Dallas Police Detective James R. Leavelle being a person who just happened to be present for two of the most historic events in U.S. history -- Pearl Harbor in 1941 and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963.

And I'd be willing to bet that if you dug deep enough into the past of all of the Dealey Plaza witnesses, or the Secret Service agents, or the FBI agents, or the Warren Commission staff, or any other group connected in some way with President Kennedy's death, you'd be able to dig up something that would qualify as an amazing "coincidence" of some kind.

And here's another interesting tidbit for the "coincidence" file that I learned about just recently. It doesn't involve the JFK case, but it's intriguing nonetheless, and it demonstrates the same general type of "He Was There And So Was I" coincidence that Vincent Palamara is referring to regarding Lee Oswald and Secret Service agent Chuck Zboril. This is an interview with sportscaster Al Michaels. The "coincidence" is mentioned about two minutes into the interview:

INTERVIEW WITH AL MICHAELS

So, coincidences like that certainly can (and often do) occur in life.

BTW / FWIW:

Chuck Zboril has not been totally silent about his opinions regarding the rumors surrounding JFK's Secret Service detail. He doesn't discuss being in the same Marine unit as Lee Oswald in 1957. But, as Vince mentioned in his thread-starting post above, Zboril did write a review at Amazon.com for Vince Palamara's book "Survivor's Guilt" in 2013:

Amazon.com Book Review By Chuck Zboril

Edited by David Von Pein

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Thanks for link, David. Interesting to read all the subsequent replies to Mr Zboril's criticism.

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Is Zboril the SS agent who can be seen in the video putting his arms up in the air, as if to say "What the hell?" as he got off the rear of the car... apparently ordered to do so?

If so, has he ever explained why he did that?

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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No, that is Don Lawton, his partner on the back of the limousine on 11/18/63.

My third book coming out solidifies several major points in my first book (including the whole Lawton/Zboril issue), plus a whole lot more.

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No, that is Don Lawton, his partner on the back of the limousine on 11/18/63.

If Sandy is referring to the agent who raised his hands when left by the limo at Love Field, I thought that was agent Rybka. Wrong?

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Ron,

Because of Henry Rybka's comments in his SS report in CE2554, it was assumed for many years that the "shrugging" agent at Love Field was, indeed, Henry Rybka. But in 2010, Clint Hill put the issue to rest. Go here for that story (and wait a few seconds for the page to settle down to the anchored portion)....

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Lawton-And-Rybka

Edited by David Von Pein

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Thanks, David.

On the subject of incredible coincidences, here's one right out of today's news.

A woman named Jessica Leeds recently accused Donald Trump of sexually assaulting her on an airplane. Then her credibility was questioned when it came out that Jessica Leeds had a dispute over real estate with Trump dating back to 2005 or so.

Now guess what. The Jessica Leeds who had a real estate dispute with Trump and the Jessica Leeds who has accused him of assault are two different Jessica Leeds.

Now what are the odds of that?

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Indeed, Ron. That's a good one.

And there's also the rather remarkable coincidence that has Abraham Zapruder, a few years after he filmed the assassination, being treated by Dr. Robert McClelland, who also, of course, helped with the medical treatment of JFK, Governor Connally, and Lee Harvey Oswald.

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And there's also the rather remarkable coincidence that has Abraham Zapruder, a few years after he filmed the assassination, being treated by Dr. Robert McClelland, who also, of course, helped with the medical treatment of JFK, Governor Connally, and Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a rather poor analogy, there are literally thousands of Dallas residents "coincidentally" treated by Dr. McClelland, some of which we could also assume were in Dallas on 11/22/63.

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But none of those other Dallas citizens took the most famous home movie in history, Chris.

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