MAJOR discovery- the biggest "coincidence" ever?

[Joe Bauer]

A fellow Marine coincidentally serves at the same time and in some of the same specific areas of duty as Oswald ( Camp Pendleton, same ship to Japan, Japan, Guam etc. ) and is then coincidentally hired by the Dallas PD just "2 months" before 11,22,1963 and is also coincidentally married to a woman (Geneva White) who worked for Oswald's killer Jack Ruby ( if even briefly) AND is said to have stated to his pastor not long before he died, that he ( Roscoe White) had killed other men on this soil and on foreign soil.

If this last confession-to-his-pastor part of the Roscoe White story is true, then we have ANOTHER coincidence. Two fairly young Dallas residing former Marines with similarly secret lives before 11,22,1963.

Now there's a coincidental hat trick ... plus one.

And yes, Chris ... throw in former Marine Gary Patrick Hemming.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Joe Bauer

[Chris Newton]

A fellow Marine coincidentally serves at the same time and in some of the same specific areas of duty as Oswald

Hemming belongs in the almost the same exact group. Just more coincidence theory nothing to see here, move along.

[Jim Hargrove]

The discovery that SS agent Charles Zboril was placed in the same 1957 Camp Pendleton Marine unit as Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald strikes a number of us besides Vince Palamara as just too much of a coincidence to accept at first encounter. A scholar who has researched the early years of Harvey and Lee Oswald in particular wrote to me yesterday with an interesting speculation:

One possible connection between Zboril and Harvey Oswald is the cultural background of these two young men. If Zboril were of Russian or Slavic extraction, he may have been able to speak fluent Russian. In that case, he would have been a perfect resource for Harvey to keep in practice in speaking idiomatic Russian at a time when he was preparing for his phony defection assignment.

Obviously, much work lies ahead in studying Zboril's background. But I do find his penmanship to be intriguing. Is this the scroll of a student educated in the American system. Or, is it the handwriting of an individual whose first language was Russian?

He also included an EBAY LINK to a USPS commemorative stamp document signed by Mr. Zboril.

According to the eBay posting, Mr. Zboril is shown next to JFK in the image above.

[Thomas Graves]

The discovery that SS agent Charles Zboril was placed in the same 1957 Camp Pendleton Marine unit as Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald strikes a number of us besides Vince Palamara as just too much of a coincidence to accept at first encounter. A scholar who has researched the early years of Harvey and Lee Oswald in particular wrote to me yesterday with an interesting speculation:

One possible connection between Zboril and Harvey Oswald is the cultural background of these two young men. If Zboril were of Russian or Slavic extraction, he may have been able to speak fluent Russian. In that case, he would have been a perfect resource for Harvey to keep in practice in speaking idiomatic Russian at a time when he was preparing for his phony defection assignment.

Obviously, much work lies ahead in studying Zboril's background. But I do find his penmanship to be intriguing. Is this the scroll of a student educated in the American system. Or, is it the handwriting of an individual whose first language was Russian?

He also included an EBAY LINK to a USPS commemorative stamp document signed by Mr. Zboril.

According to the eBay posting, Mr. Zboril is shown next to JFK in the image above.

Dear Jim,

For your information, Russians are a Slavic people. As are Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, etc.

But not Hungarians like your "Harvey." Hungarian is a non-Indo-European language, a language not unlike that spoken by Attila the Hun. A language originally from Central Asia.

-- Tommy

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

Thanks, Jim, Ron and Ray. Oh, I agree- could be just a wild coincidence of epic proportions. Still, at the risk of sounding like a "theorist", there was 2.5 billion people on the planet back in 1963. Two guys served in the very same unit in the Marines. One rides on the rear of President Kennedy's limousine 11/18/63 (Florida), while the other allegedly takes advantage of his absence on 11/22/63, the very next trip (Texas). You CAN imagine my shock when I came across his name late night doing (isn't it always like this?) unrelated research. Charles T. Zboril (he is 80 years old now), who served in the Marines...no doubt it IS "the" Charles T. Zboril. Zboril never mentioned this and it would have been lost forever if not for a total accidental discovery last night.

No matter what, you must admit- pretty bizarre. Ron: keep firmly in mind the Paine connection to Dulles in this context.

POST SCRIPT: I am persona non grata with Zboril (no surprise- see my book). A friend of mine IS going to call him (he lives in Florida- of course) and ask him about this (without acknowledging that he knows me- otherwise, there will be a click on the other end).

Vince

It would be interesting to ask Mr. Zboril if he spent any time with Oswald at Pendleton, and if he knew Russian at all, and if there was any chance Zboril and Oswald spoke to one another in Russian.

[Andrej Stancak]

Zboril appears to be a Czech name, and if it would be written in Czech, it would be "Zbořil" and would read as "zborzil" with "rz" pronounced softly - there is no good correlate to this phoneme in English. Agent's Rybka name can be Czech or Polish. "Rybka" in both these languages means a small fish. By the way, the DPD police officer's name Adamcik would be either Czech or Slovak, and it would be written as "Adamčík". This name does not have any specific meaning, perhaps it only denotes someone belonging to "Adam" family or tribe.

I reckon that these Czech or Slovak names with English transcription belong to descendants of those Czech and Slovak citizens who emigrated to the US during the big economic depression at end of the twentieth of the last century. My grandfather also left Slovakia as a young lad about in 1926, and worked in coal mines near Pittsburgh for few years until a work accident cost him his leg. He was paid off by the coal company and returned back to Slovakia, and was able to buy a farm and few horses which made him a rich man in a small Slovak village close to the Polish border.

Coming back to Mr. Zboril - it is not likely that he would speak Russian if he were the son of immigrants coming from Czechoslovak republic in the twentieth of the last century. The Russian language started to be taught as a compulsory subject in Czech schools only after 1948 when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. There was another wave of exiles in 1948, and Mr. Zboril could have been maybe less than 10 years old should he come to the US during this wave of immigration. He would not speak Russian, and he would be strongly anti-communist.

There was another wave of exiles from Czechoslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks destroyed so called "Prague spring", a spontaneous movement of people aiming at freedom of speech and free elections. I only mention it because the late Mark Lane visited Czechoslovakia in the years of Prague spring and had helped several Czechoslovak immigrants after they reached the US, but also those who stayed in the occupied country. The year 1963 was the beginning of Prague spring. People in Czechoslovakia admired and loved President Kennedy as this still young man then has irradiated the positive spirit and the hope which resonated with people's natural inclination to freedom, peace and humanity.

[Thomas Graves]

Zboril appears to be a Czech name, and if it would be written in Czech, it would be "Zbořil" and would read as "zborzil" with "rz" pronounced softly - there is no good correlate to this phoneme in English. Agent's Rybka name can be Czech or Polish. "Rybka" in both these languages means a small fish. By the way, the DPD police officer's name Adamcik would be either Czech or Slovak, and it would be written as "Adamčík". This name does not have any specific meaning, perhaps it only denotes someone belonging to "Adam" family or tribe.

I reckon that these Czech or Slovak names with English transcription belong to descendants of those Czech and Slovak citizens who emigrated to the US during the big economic depression at end of the twentieth of the last century. My grandfather also left Slovakia as a young lad about in 1926, and worked in coal mines near Pittsburgh for few years until a work accident cost him his leg. He was paid off by the coal company and returned back to Slovakia, and was able to buy a farm and few horses which made him a rich man in a small Slovak village close to the Polish border.

Coming back to Mr. Zboril - it is not likely that he would speak Russian if he were the son of immigrants coming from Czechoslovak republic in the twentieth of the last century. The Russian language started to be taught as a compulsory subject in Czech schools only after 1948 when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. There was another wave of exiles in 1948, and Mr. Zboril could have been maybe less than 10 years old should he come to the US during this wave of immigration. He would not speak Russian, and he would be strongly anti-communist.

There was another wave of exiles from Czechoslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks destroyed so called "Prague spring", a spontaneous movement of people aiming at freedom of speech and free elections. I only mention it because the late Mark Lane visited Czechoslovakia in the years of Prague spring and had helped several Czechoslovak immigrants after they reached the US, but also those who stayed in the occupied country. The year 1963 was the beginning of Prague spring. People in Czechoslovakia admired and loved President Kennedy as this still young man then has irradiated the positive spirit and the hope which resonated with people's natural inclination to freedom, peace and humanity.

Ahoj!,

Děkuji mnohokrát. Poté, co žije v České republice po dobu sedmi let (v Brně), myslím, že máte pravdu.

-- Tommy

PS Let us not forget that one of the members of INTERPEN was named Edmund Kolby, and also that the CIA had a cover company called Double-Chek Corporation!

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Andrej Stancak]

Zboril appears to be a Czech name, and if it would be written in Czech, it would be "Zbořil" and would read as "zborzil" with "rz" pronounced softly - there is no good correlate to this phoneme in English. Agent's Rybka name can be Czech or Polish. "Rybka" in both these languages means a small fish. By the way, the DPD police officer's name Adamcik would be either Czech or Slovak, and it would be written as "Adamčík". This name does not have any specific meaning, perhaps it only denotes someone belonging to "Adam" family or tribe.

I reckon that these Czech or Slovak names with English transcription belong to descendants of those Czech and Slovak citizens who emigrated to the US during the big economic depression at end of the twentieth of the last century. My grandfather also left Slovakia as a young lad about in 1926, and worked in coal mines near Pittsburgh for few years until a work accident cost him his leg. He was paid off by the coal company and returned back to Slovakia, and was able to buy a farm and few horses which made him a rich man in a small Slovak village close to the Polish border.

Coming back to Mr. Zboril - it is not likely that he would speak Russian if he were the son of immigrants coming from Czechoslovak republic in the twentieth of the last century. The Russian language started to be taught as a compulsory subject in Czech schools only after 1948 when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. There was another wave of exiles in 1948, and Mr. Zboril could have been maybe less than 10 years old should he come to the US during this wave of immigration. He would not speak Russian, and he would be strongly anti-communist.

There was another wave of exiles from Czechoslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks destroyed so called "Prague spring", a spontaneous movement of people aiming at freedom of speech and free elections. I only mention it because the late Mark Lane visited Czechoslovakia in the years of Prague spring and had helped several Czechoslovak immigrants after they reached the US, but also those who stayed in the occupied country. The year 1963 was the beginning of Prague spring. People in Czechoslovakia admired and loved President Kennedy as this still young man then has irradiated the positive spirit and the hope which resonated with people's natural inclination to freedom, peace and humanity.

Ahoj!,

Děkuji mnohokrát. Poté, co žije v České republice po dobu sedmi let (v Brně), myslím, že máte pravdu.

-- Tommy

PS Let us not forget that one of the members of INTERPEN was named Edmund Kolby, and also that the CIA had a cover company called Double-Chek Corporation!

Hello Tommy,

noted. I keep writing in English so that all forum members understand me. Please drop me a PM for a chat.

[Thomas Graves]

Zboril appears to be a Czech name, and if it would be written in Czech, it would be "Zbořil" and would read as "zborzil" with "rz" pronounced softly - there is no good correlate to this phoneme in English. Agent's Rybka name can be Czech or Polish. "Rybka" in both these languages means a small fish. By the way, the DPD police officer's name Adamcik would be either Czech or Slovak, and it would be written as "Adamčík". This name does not have any specific meaning, perhaps it only denotes someone belonging to "Adam" family or tribe.

I reckon that these Czech or Slovak names with English transcription belong to descendants of those Czech and Slovak citizens who emigrated to the US during the big economic depression at end of the twentieth of the last century. My grandfather also left Slovakia as a young lad about in 1926, and worked in coal mines near Pittsburgh for few years until a work accident cost him his leg. He was paid off by the coal company and returned back to Slovakia, and was able to buy a farm and few horses which made him a rich man in a small Slovak village close to the Polish border.

Coming back to Mr. Zboril - it is not likely that he would speak Russian if he were the son of immigrants coming from Czechoslovak republic in the twentieth of the last century. The Russian language started to be taught as a compulsory subject in Czech schools only after 1948 when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. There was another wave of exiles in 1948, and Mr. Zboril could have been maybe less than 10 years old should he come to the US during this wave of immigration. He would not speak Russian, and he would be strongly anti-communist.

There was another wave of exiles from Czechoslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks destroyed so called "Prague spring", a spontaneous movement of people aiming at freedom of speech and free elections. I only mention it because the late Mark Lane visited Czechoslovakia in the years of Prague spring and had helped several Czechoslovak immigrants after they reached the US, but also those who stayed in the occupied country. The year 1963 was the beginning of Prague spring. People in Czechoslovakia admired and loved President Kennedy as this still young man then has irradiated the positive spirit and the hope which resonated with people's natural inclination to freedom, peace and humanity.

Ahoj!,

Děkuji mnohokrát. Poté, co žije v České republice po dobu sedmi let (v Brně), myslím, že máte pravdu.

-- Tommy

PS Let us not forget that one of the members of INTERPEN was named Edmund Kolby, and also that the CIA had a cover company called Double-Chek Corporation!

Hello Tommy,

noted. I keep writing in English so that all forum members understand me. Please drop me a PM for a chat.

Dear Andrej,

Never mind. The English-to-Czech automatic translation website is too laborious for me to use for anything longer than two or three sentences.

I'll translate it back into English for everyone: "Hello! Thank you very much. Since I lived in the Czech Republic for seven years (in Brno), I think you're right."

-- Tommy

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Ron Ecker]

On the subject of coincidences, the World Series being played in Cleveland and Chicago brings to mind one of the most amazing coincidences I've ever heard of.

In 1939, Cleveland's Bob Feller was pitching against the Chicago White Sox. A White Sox batter hit a foul ball into the stands, and it hit Feller's mother in the face.

And not only that. It was Mother's Day.

[Joe Bauer]

On the lighter side ( if we may occasionally interject such ) we all know that life on this crazy, hot molten iron core, 69% water covered, 8 billion human population ant farm planet is full of incredible coincidences (so many funny ) on a daily basis.

Speaking of baseball game coincidences:

I took my young son to his first San Francisco Giants game at Candlestick Park back in the early 1990's.

We had "okay" upper deck seats, behind home plate but slightly off and pretty far back.

My little guy took his little league glove because he was "sure" he was going to catch a foul ball.

Wouldn't you know it, a foul ball comes all the way up and is headed right to us and my son jumps into the open aisle to catch this ... and a micro-second before the ball is into my son's glove a PRO adult foul ball catcher guy aggressively bounds in front of him and snags it.

Oh boy, what a once in a rare outing let down for my son.

But then on the VERY NEXT PITCH, this same batter ( Alex Cole? ) fouls another ball, and this one comes right back to the SAME EXACT SPOT as the first one! Again my eager hopeful son jumps out into the aisle to grab this incredible coincidence next pitch foul ball and the SAME pro foul ball catcher AGAIN bounds in front of him ... and SNAGS THIS ONE TOO!

Back to the more serious and against the odds coincidental murders and deaths of important JFK figures.

Sam Giancana gets mob hit ( while under police watch protection? ) just days before he is to testify to the House Select Committee?

Johnny Roselli gets the oil drum in the bay treatment before he can testify.

George De Mohrenchiltds ends it all just before testifying again.

Dorothy Kilgallen is found dead in absurdly illogical circumstances soon after she gets back from interviewing Jack Ruby and tells friends she is going to crack this case wide open.

David Ferry supposedly ends it all just before he is to testify to the Grand Jury.

Guy Banister dies alone just one year after JFK and his extensive files coincidentally disappear that day never to be seen again and no one to this day knows who took these?

Jack Ruby dies from a quick spreading cancer just as he is granted a new trial and is seen on video saying if Adlai Stephenson had been JFK's vice president on 11,22,1963 our beloved President wouldn't have been killed?

A logical and reasonable mind will always find it hard to dismiss the number of major JFK connected characters dying from murder & suicide and under common denominator timing circumstances as just "nothing to see here folks - move on" coincidences.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Joe Bauer

[Chris Newton]

Back to the more serious and against the odds coincidental murders and deaths of important JFK figures.

Add Richard Case Nagell to the suspicious deaths (before he can testify to HSCA in 1995)

[Michael Clark]

On 10/26/2016 at 5:00 PM, Ron Ecker said:

On the subject of coincidences, the World Series being played in Cleveland and Chicago brings to mind one of the most amazing coincidences I've ever heard of.

In 1939, Cleveland's Bob Feller was pitching against the Chicago White Sox. A White Sox batter hit a foul ball into the stands, and it hit Feller's mother in the face.

And not only that. It was Mother's Day.

That's a great one Ron! It reminded me of this.... "Oh, The serendipity!"

 

[Steve Thomas]

On 10/17/2016 at 1:51 PM, Andrej Stancak said:

The Russian language started to be taught as a compulsory subject in Czech schools only after 1948 when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. There was another wave of exiles in 1948, and Mr. Zboril could have been maybe less than 10 years old should he come to the US during this wave of immigration. He would not speak Russian, and he would be strongly anti-communist.

Andrej, (or anyone else for that matter)

 

In his WC testimony, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm

George Bouhe said, 

"... when I came in 1939, there were absolutely only three Russian-speaking people in Dallas and they were all married people, married to Americans, and so on. So I did not, so-to-speak, associate with any Russians that might have come or gone through Dallas from 1939 to about 1950.
In 1950, approximately, a great avalanche of displaced persons came to Dallas from Europe. Among these were probably 30, 40, 50 people, native of what I would say of various parts of the former Russian Empire. By that I mean to say that they were not all Russian. They might have been Estonians, Lithuanians, Poles, Caucasians, Georgians, Armenians, and such, but we did have one thing in common and not much more, and that was the language.         (Russian I would guess)
It was a sort of constant amazement to me that these people, prayed God, for years before coming here while still sitting in various camps in Germany--they wanted to get to America, and if 1 out of 50 made a 10-cent effort to learn the English language, I did not find him."

 

Does anyone know why there would be a sudden influx of immigrants from Eastern Europe into the United States in 1950?

 

Steve Thomas

 

PS: A regiment would have between 1,000 to 2,000 men.  Without being in the same platoon, I'd be surprised if the SS Agent and Oswald knew each other.

[Thomas Graves]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:13 PM, Vince Palamara said:

The biggest coincidence ever???

Nope.

Not when compared to my "running into" my grandfather from Princeton, Indiana, in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, when I hitchhiked from La Jolla to Homer, Alaska, in 1973.

Or when a friend of mine from La Jolla recognized me on a movie set in Boscovice, Czech Republic.

Or when ....

--  Tommy