Steven Kossor

Bullet scar on inside of driver's door in Dallas T-H photo

32 posts in this topic

Has anyone else noticed the bullet scar in the photo by the Dallas Times-Herald on the inside of the driver's door of the JFK limo in the Parkland Hospital ER lot?  The door is open and the scar from a bullet strike is plainly visible.  This is another shot unaccounted for in the record and may be related to the smelling of gunpowder by the Parkland staff when the Kennedy party came through.  It looks like the bullet that caused this scar was fired from inside the car because it's too low to have come from the GK and too small to have come from "above and behind" (it would have been much more elongated if that were the case).....  I don't know why my upload of the photos failed (both less than 1000 kb).  Help would be appreciated.

Steve

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Steve,

 

Try uploading to a site like dropbox and then use a "public link" feature to post here. That way you'll avoid the issue of having to go back to old threads to delete images to increase storage for future threads.

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1 hour ago, Steven Kossor said:

Has anyone else noticed the bullet scar in the photo by the Dallas Times-Herald on the inside of the driver's door of the JFK limo in the Parkland Hospital ER lot?  The door is open and the scar from a bullet strike is plainly visible.  This is another shot unaccounted for in the record and may be related to the smelling of gunpowder by the Parkland staff when the Kennedy party came through.  It looks like the bullet that caused this scar was fired from inside the car because it's too low to have come from the GK and too small to have come from "above and behind" (it would have been much more elongated if that were the case).....  I don't know why my upload of the photos failed (both less than 1000 kb).  Help would be appreciated.

Steve

I don't think so, or SA Robert Frazier should have picked up on that during the forensic exam of the limo that night.  Please post the photo you are referencing, however.

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Look at the knuckles of the guy carrying the bags, then look to the right.  You'll see the scar between the edge of the door and the edge of the panel where the door knob is mounted.  The scar is about an inch in from the edge of the door and about three or four inches down from the door lock button.  If you zoom in on that area, you'll see that bare metal is exposed inside the hole, that the hole is irregularly shaped (not a feature of the upholstery) and that it suggests a trajectory from inside the car.  If that trajectory is plotted based on the configuration of the scar, it either comes from the front passenger side (Kellerman) or from the rear passenger side (Connelly).  Hope this helps.  It is inconceivable that the existence of this defect in the upholstery of the limousine was accidentally missed, in my opinion.  There is no comparable defect on the passenger door, although there appears to be a defect there that is not symmetrical to the one on the driver's door, which clearly suggests that it is not an upholstery feature (they would be symmetrical, if that were the case).  Can someone help me get permission to post pictures here?

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Just curious, Steven. Were you actually able to get a look at a photo of the passenger door to verify it did not ave a similar marking.

This is an interesting find.

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Yes I did.  I found a picture of the passenger door somewhere and there is a smaller, similar feature on that door, but it is not in the exact same spot and doesn't have the exact same features as the bullet scar on the driver's side, so I'm guessing that somebody thought "let's make another mark on the passenger door so it looks like the mark on the driver's door" and then botched the necessary symmetrical property that would make their argument plausible.  I can upload that picture too, if somebody will give me permission to upload pictures to the Education Forum.  Can you please help with that?

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Here's the picture of the passenger door with a similar but not symmetrical or identical feature, which suggests that the feature I've identified as a bullet scar on the inside of the driver's door is not an upholstery feature, and that the feature in this photograph was added to the upholstery in a failed attempt to create a comparable "feature" on the passenger door that might be able to support a claim that the feature on the driver's door in approximately the same location, but with a different appearance was not a bullet scar.  Nice try....  Here's a link to a comparison of the two photos: https://app.box.com/s/u72vanem50f3pf79w00p3qz75eqhm7ft

Steve

Edited by Steven Kossor
Added link to photograph/pdf

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Looks like a riveted screw or something holding the door panel onto the door frame to me.  And it's on both doors so the odds of two different bullets hitting two precise locations on opposite doors seems impossible to me.

Edited by Michael Walton

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A Lincoln Continental is not assembled slap-dash with asymmetrical features.  If you look at the picture of the passenger door, you'll see that the feature there is placed lower and looks different than the feature on the driver's door.  I'm not suspecting that two different bullets hit the doors, only that the driver's door was struck by a bullet that left an irregular scar and that an attempt was made to create a comparable feature on the passenger door so that superficial, noncritical observers would conclude that the driver's door feature was a match for the passenger door feature.  They are not comparably configured or placed.  Look carefully at the comparison pictures and you'll see what I mean:

https://app.box.com/s/u72vanem50f3pf79w00p3qz75eqhm7ft

Steve

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Hey Steven, The mark does resemble a mark left by a round and it's similar to the defect found in the chrome windshield trim between the visors. It could also be a rivet point for the attachment of the leather door panels but I agree that those should be symmetrical. If we could find a photo of the inside of that door prior to the Dallas motorcade that'd be the clincher.

 

If it is a mark created by a projectile, that would be remarkable. I think that the source could also be the SW 6th floor window or the SW corner of the roof (of the TSBD). I agree that it could not have been a mark from the rear unless it was a ricochet.

 

 

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Thanks for the reality check.  No matter where it came from, to me it's like another "Tague" event -- another unaccounted-for shot.  I've scoured every resource I can find but haven't been able to get a picture of the driver's door showing that area prior to DP.  Hope someone at the Forum will be able to help in that regard.  It shouldn't be hard to get from the Ford archives, should it?

Steve

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26 minutes ago, Steven Kossor said:

Hope someone at the Forum will be able to help in that regard.

 

Pamela knows more about the Limo than anyone, I think.

 

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Unfortunately, I can't find a picture of the driver's door opened in such a way as to reveal what's going on. I found this one of the opposite door. That is obviously a rivet point for attaching the interior door panel. If it is symmetrical then there must be a corresponding one on the driver's door panel. There might be another explanation for the dissimilar placement such as different cameras or perspective.

 

From Robin Unger's site:

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=6611&fullsize=1

 

Edited by Chris Newton
ssdd i can't write

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Robin's site has a better resolution picture of the "rivet"; same picture as I linked above. I think it's a rivet and, now at higher resolution,  I don't think it's symmetrical with the passenger door rivet. Maybe because of different controls or armor inserts it had to be placed where it was.

 

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=6486

 

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