James Hosty and KGB Agent Kostikov

[Pamela Brown]

One thing I am noticing as I read Simpich's book is that he talks about JJA's molehunt in MC.  Well, to me that is just part of a much larger puzzle.  JJA was searching for the mole in CIA that was turning info over to the Soviets.  He became quite paranoid and never found the mole.  We all know how badly he treated Nosenko.  To my thinking, the Soviets were trying to undermine our intelligence by fomenting distrust.  They succeeded with JJA because he was already on the edge over not figuring out Kim Philby.  So, in this context, MC is very convoluted and not at all clearcut... 

Edited December 3, 2016 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

Another point I am noticing is that Simpich does not seem to give any credence to LHO wanting to go to Cuba.  However, if you take all of LHO's actions that seem to make no sense, such as defecting to USSR, becoming disenchanted but making sure to find a wife before returning to the US, shooting at Gen. Walker and leafleting etc in NOLA, and look at them from the perspective of his getting his bone fides in order to go to Cuba there is a sort of logic to his actions.  So I don't think it is wise to discard that possibility...

[Joe Bauer]

Just listened to an interview of Hosty on a Kansas City radio station talk show after his book " Assignment Oswald" was published..

One of the things stated by Hosty in this interview was that ...

"we had people on the inside" regards the Warren Commission.

"Representative Ford was giving us information and Russell and a third person."

Something all serious JFK researchers knew forever, yet it was never acknowledged or reported much by the main stream media.

So much for an "unbiased"  investigation on the part of the Warren Commission without outside political influence.

Hosty just happens to be meeting with an Army Intelligence Officer ( ? ) for two hours right up to and just before stepping outside on Main street to view the President going by, then as soon as the motorcade passes he casually walks to a cafe to have lunch?

So much for the security of JFK having high priority with all the Government agencies in that area at that time.

Hosty claimed in his Warren Commission testimony that he didn't know the presidential motorcade route until " the day before" 11,22,1963 !

Hosty says the SS didn't share such things with his people.

Yet, the morning of 11,22,1963, his Agent In Charge holds a meeting with Hosty and 40 other agents where the main subject was security for the president and vice president.?   And Hosty didn't even know the parade route until the day before?

Hosty's biggest threat concern were the "Wanted For Treason" flyers being passed around Dallas prior to JFK's arrival?

Hosty was informed that Oswald had visited the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City from Washington "a month before" 11,22,1963...and this didn't separate Oswald into any more serious minded category of concern when JFK comes to Dallas especially since Oswald worked right on the motorcade route?

Hosty claims again and again he thought Sylvia Odio ( and her sister ) just had a case of mistaken identity in regards to her claim that Oswald and two other men visited her apartment in Sept. of 1963. He explains that this happens frequently with witnesses claiming this or that.  

The Dallas Mercury dealership car salesman ( Albert Bogard ) who says Oswald visited his sales lot and test drove a car also experienced this "mistaken identity" syndrome? Even though he wrote the man's name "Lee Oswald " down on his dealership business card and had even introduced this visiting car test driving customer to his boss ( Mr. Pizzo )who verified this encounter?

Ms. Odio stated she remembered not just someone who "looked like" Oswald, but that his name was also spoken to her in the evening visit by Leopoldo and the third man.

Odio's sister also claimed she saw Oswald that evening although she doesn't remember hearing his name spoken.  

And it was just two months later that the real Lee Harvey Oswald was shown on TV and Ms. Odio and her sister both became quite scared recounting this was one of the men who visited their apartment in September. 

That is not a long period of time in regards to remembering faces and names and countenances in an encounter that was so unsettling to Ms. Odio, she felt compelled to write concernedly to her imprisoned father about it.

Hosty burned and flushed down a toilet "a note" from Oswald right after he was killed. As Mark Lane said, this was willful and purposeful destruction of very relevant recorded evidence in regards to Lee Harvey Oswald.

I wonder if it was just this "note" that Hosty destroyed. And not more than that in their Lee Harvey Oswald "File."

And lastly, if our top intelligence and military and government people truly believed Oswald was operating under the orders of the Soviets to kill JFK ( either consciously or unconsciously as some type of "Manchurian Candidate") do you really think our power structure wouldn't have retaliated in some very, very serious way as a response? Or that they would just do nothing out of fear of a wider conflict developing?

Edited December 5, 2016 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

Now I think I see what you are getting at here.  It was my impression in talking with Hosty that he did not either take into account or give any credence to LHO being impersonated in MC.  I don't think I asked him about that either.  But he did say that when he confronted LHO about MC that Lee blew up at him and refused to talk with him any more.  That says to me that Hosty may have thought that since he got a reaction from Lee, that it was an admission of guilt, when that may not have been the case.  

Pamela,

You are revealing to me, IMHO, that you do believe that James Hosty truly did insist, at the time of the JFK assassination, that Oswald had called Kostikov while he was in Mexico City around the 1st of October, 1963. 

That is, since James Hosty claimed he read about Kostikov and Oswald in mid-October 1963 (page 48), you accept James Hosty's claim.

You say that Hosty didn't consider that Oswald had been impersonated by anybody.  Yet that isn't my interest.  My interest is how Hosty ever came to believe that Oswald had called Valerie Kostikov in the first place.  This was a Top-Secret CIA investigation.

According to the JFK research done by Bill Simpich (2014) of recent FOIA releases of CIA documents -- the very rumor that Oswald called Valerie Kostikov was Top Secret.  Within 15 minutes the CIA high-command in Mexico City knew it was an impersonation, and they officially started a CIA Mole Hunt -- Top Secret -- to find the Mole.

The problem, IMHO, is that anybody who even knew the rumor about it, anytime before November 23, 1963, had to have the same knowledge that the Mole had.  

You have basically agreed with me, IMHO, although you don't quite see it yet.  

I also believe that James Hosty insisted on November 22, 1963 about an Oswald/Kostikov connection -- but I say that this was because Hosty was inside the plot.   James Hosty had no clue about any "Impersonation" charges, because James Hosty (like David Morales) was also oblivious to the CIA Mole Hunt which started 15 minutes after the Impersonation.  Bill Simpich brilliantly revealed this CIA Mole Hunt in 2014 -- absolute genius.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 3, 2016 by Paul Trejo
emphasis

[Pamela Brown]

On 12/2/2016 at 10:59 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Pamela,

You are revealing to me, IMHO, that you do believe that James Hosty truly did insist, at the time of the JFK assassination, that Oswald had called Kostikov while he was in Mexico City around the 1st of October, 1963. 

That is, since James Hosty claimed he read about Kostikov and Oswald in mid-October 1963 (page 48), you accept James Hosty's claim.

You say that Hosty didn't consider that Oswald had been impersonated by anybody.  Yet that isn't my interest.  My interest is how Hosty ever came to believe that Oswald had called Valerie Kostikov in the first place.  This was a Top-Secret CIA investigation.

According to the JFK research done by Bill Simpich (2014) of recent FOIA releases of CIA documents -- the very rumor that Oswald called Valerie Kostikov was Top Secret.  Within 15 minutes the CIA high-command in Mexico City knew it was an impersonation, and they officially started a CIA Mole Hunt -- Top Secret -- to find the Mole.

The problem, IMHO, is that anybody who even knew the rumor about it, anytime before November 23, 1963, had to have the same knowledge that the Mole had.  

You have basically agreed with me, IMHO, although you don't quite see it yet.  

I also believe that James Hosty insisted on November 22, 1963 about an Oswald/Kostikov connection -- but I say that this was because Hosty was inside the plot.   James Hosty had no clue about any "Impersonation" charges, because James Hosty (like David Morales) was also oblivious to the CIA Mole Hunt which started 15 minutes after the Impersonation.  Bill Simpich brilliantly revealed this CIA Mole Hunt in 2014 -- absolute genius.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I said no such thing.  I said I consider it plausible that he first heard about LHO meeting Kostikov from Jeff Woolsey.  

I disagree that Kostikov was 'top secret' .  And I have pointed out that there was a big molehunt in place long before LHO went to MC.  So I don't find either of those positions of Simpich's plausible.  

What you have presented is called a strawman argument.  That is a fallacy of logic.  

[Pamela Brown]

On 12/2/2016 at 9:59 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Just listened to an interview of Hosty on a Kansas City radio station talk show after his book " Assignment Oswald" was published..

One of the things stated by Hosty in this interview was that ...

"we had people on the inside" regards the Warren Commission.

"Representative Ford was giving us information and Russell and a third person."

Something all serious JFK researchers knew forever, yet it was never acknowledged or reported much by the main stream media.

So much for an "unbiased"  investigation on the part of the Warren Commission without outside political influence.

Hosty just happens to be meeting with an Army Intelligence Officer ( ? ) for two hours right up to and just before stepping outside on Main street to view the President going by, then as soon as the motorcade passes he casually walks to a cafe to have lunch?

So much for the security of JFK having high priority with all the Government agencies in that area at that time.

Hosty claimed in his Warren Commission testimony that he didn't know the presidential motorcade route until " the day before" 11,22,1963 !

Hosty says the SS didn't share such things with his people.

Yet, the morning of 11,22,1963, his Agent In Charge holds a meeting with Hosty and 40 other agents where the main subject was security for the president and vice president.?   And Hosty didn't even know the parade route until the day before?

Hosty's biggest threat concern were the "Wanted For Treason" flyers being passed around Dallas prior to JFK's arrival?

Hosty was informed that Oswald had visited the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City from Washington "a month before" 11,22,1963...and this didn't separate Oswald into any more serious minded category of concern when JFK comes to Dallas especially since Oswald worked right on the motorcade route?

Hosty claims again and again he thought Sylvia Odio ( and her sister ) just had a case of mistaken identity in regards to her claim that Oswald and two other men visited her apartment in Sept. of 1963. He explains that this happens frequently with witnesses claiming this or that.  The car salesman who says Oswald visited his sales lot and test drove a car also experienced this "mistaken identity" syndrome.

Ms. Odio stated she remembered not just someone who "looked like" Oswald, but that his name was also spoken to her in the evening visit by Leopoldo and the third man.

Odio's sister also claimed she saw Oswald that evening although she doesn't remember hearing his name spoken.  

And it was just two months later that the real Lee Harvey Oswald was shown on TV and Ms. Odio and her sister both became quite scared recounting this was one of the men who visited their apartment in September. 

That is not a long period of time in regards to remembering faces and names and countenances in an encounter that was so unsettling to Ms. Odio, she had to write concernedly to her imprisoned father about it.

Hosty burned and flushed down a toilet "a note" from Oswald right after he was killed. As Mark Lane said, this was willful and purposeful destruction of very relevant recorded evidence in regards to Lee Harvey Oswald.

I wonder if it was just this "note" that Hosty destroyed. And not more than that in their Lee Harvey Oswald "File."

And lastly, if our top intelligence and military and government people truly believed Oswald was operating under the orders of the Soviets to kill JFK ( either consciously or unconsciously as some type of "Manchurian Candidate") do you really think our power structure wouldn't have retaliated in some very, very serious way as a response? Or that they would just do nothing out of fear of a wider conflict developing?

Your post does a good job of looking beneath Hosty's narrative.  When I spoke with him I became aware of how deeply he appeared to feel that he had been put by fate into a very difficult situation (or series of them) and, though he had attempted to do his best, had, in some respects fallen short.  To add insult to injury, he then became the fallguy for Hoover and ended up being sent out to the boonies (Kansas City?).  So he does attempt to justify what he did and no, I don't have any sympathy with that either.  

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:59 PM, Pamela Brown said:

I said no such thing.  I said I consider it plausible that he first heard about LHO meeting Kostikov from Jeff Woolsey.  

I disagree that Kostikov was 'top secret' .  And I have pointed out that there was a big molehunt in place long before LHO went to MC.  So I don't find either of those positions of Simpich's plausible.  

What you have presented is called a strawman argument.  That is a fallacy of logic.  

Pamela,

I apologize -- I didn't intend to speak for you. 

Now -- as for Hosty's claim that he first heard about LHO meeting Kostikov from Woolsey, I challenge this on three grounds of logic: (1) there is no such CIA document as James Hosty described in that claim; (2) LHO never did meet Kostikov; and (3) Bill Simpich demonstrated cogently that the CIA strongly suppressed any connection between LHO and Kostikov, starting 15 minutes after their impersonated telephone call was tape recorded.

Bill Simpich's theory of a CIA Mole Hunt remains plausible.  Of course there were other Mole Hunts.  The Kostikov-LHO Mole Hunt wasn't the only one of 1963.  But given Bill Simpich's theory, it is impossible that James Hosty heard about the alleged LHO meeting Kostikov from Jeff Woolsey or anybody else but the Mole Himself.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 5, 2016 by Paul Trejo
emphasis

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, Chris Newton said:

The 10/10/63 CIA cable that was disseminated to FBI was DIR 74673. It was released by the ARRB in 1995.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1546#relPageId=3&tab=page

The cable doesn't mention Kostikov.

Chris,

This is an EXCELLENT citation, and it speaks directly to the debate here.   If this is the CIA cable that James Hosty claimed to have seen in October, 1963, then Hosty has falsely claimed that it mentioned Valerie Kostikov -- because it clearly doesn't.

However, the date is also different.  James Hosty on page 48 gave the date of October 18, 1963 as the date of this cable.  But no such CIA cable of October 18, 1963 has surfaced.

I note for the record that October 18 was the birthday of Lee Harvey Oswald.  Perhaps James Hosty got confused by the dates.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 5, 2016 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, Pamela Brown said:

Another point I am noticing is that Simpich does not seem to give any credence to LHO wanting to go to Cuba.  However, if you take all of LHO's actions that seem to make no sense, such as defecting to USSR, becoming disenchanted but making sure to find a wife before returning to the US, shooting at Gen. Walker and leafleting etc in NOLA, and look at them from the perspective of his getting his bone fides in order to go to Cuba there is a sort of logic to his actions.  So I don't think it is wise to discard that possibility...

Pamela,

On this point I agree with you entirely.  I don't agree with Bill Simpich in everything.   Marina Oswald's testimony is explicit -- LHO wanted to go to Cuba, Cuba and only Cuba.  LHO was obsessed with this in September 1963, and it frightened her.  LHO told Marina that he wanted her to help him hijack an airplane to Cuba.  She was terrified by this, but felt helpless -- because she could still not speak English, and she was eight months pregnant, LHO was out of work, and she had still not seen a doctor. 

All Marina told LHO in reply was, "If you want to go to Cuba, you can go, but I'm not going."   Marina was already making other plans with Ruth Paine by postal mail.  Ruth Paine was offering to take Ruth Paine to Parkland Hospital.  This was urgent for Marina.

Obviously, I give a lot of credence to Marina Oswald -- while many here do not.

As for LHO returning to the USA, the evidence seems clear to me that Marina Oswald pressured LHO to do this, and LHO decided that if the USSR was so easy, then he might actually make it in the USA.  It didn't take long for him to give up.  LHO lost three jobs in only 12 months -- July 1962 to July 1963.  LHO was allergic to capitalism. 

LHO often spoke of going back, but Marina absolutely refused -- she hated the USSR and she loved the USA.  He didn't like the USSR, and he didn't like the USA either, so LHO was truly a mess.  Yet LHO had already revealed that he would go any way that the wind blew.  He was now up for sale. 

The General Walker shooting was an anomaly -- this was done at the urging of George De Mohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt.  Schmidt is on video admitting this.  LHO evidently thought that all these rich, Texas engineer yuppies would be grateful to him for killing their hated General Walker.  Instead, they were shocked by his lone-wolf antics.

The NOLA and Fake FPCC episode was brilliantly illuminated by Jim Garrison in 1968.  LHO had turned in desperation to Guy Banister and the plot to assassinate Fidel Castro.  This was what was behind LHO's obsession to get to Cuba.  Not to help Fidel, but to kill FIdel.  But his wishy-washy politics had already marked him as The Patsy.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 5, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

Paul,

The issue you're discussing, as I understand it, is whether Hosty could have seen a cable naming Kostikov in the context of the supposed Oswald Russian Embassy visit in mid October 1963.

There was a cable from CIA HQ to Mexico that mentioned Kostikov on 10/18/63. The problem with this cable, for Hosty's purposes, is that it was not disseminated to other agencies. It was not even known if Oswald met Kostikov, the meeting was only suggested as a "possibility" by the original source (supposedly). My take on this suggestion is that it's purpose was further "myth building".

[Pamela Brown]

3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Pamela,

I apologize -- I didn't intend to speak for you. 

Now -- as for Hosty's claim that he first heard about LHO meeting Kostikov from Woolsey, I challenge this on three grounds of logic: (1) there is no such CIA document as James Hosty described in that claim; (2) LHO never did meet Kostikov; and (3) Bill Simpich demonstrated cogently that the CIA strongly suppressed any connection between LHO and Kostikov, starting 15 minutes after their impersonated telephone call was tape recorded.

Bill Simpich's theory of a CIA Mole Hunt remains plausible.  Of course there were other Mole Hunts.  The Kostikov-LHO Mole Hunt wasn't the only one of 1963.  But given Bill Simpich's theory, it is impossible that James Hosty heard about the alleged LHO meeting Kostikov from Jeff Woolsey or anybody else but the Mole Himself.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Thank you, Paul.  

First of all, Hosty said he heard this from an INS clerk, Jim Woolsey.  You seem to have walked by this.  Are you saying that you don't think that is possible? 

Second, you have done nothing as yet to demonstrate your position that "LHO did not meet Kostikov".  

Third, I don't find it appropriate to just stick Simpich's theory into this discussion without a reference to exactly what you are using to make your claim.  

Fourth, from whom would CIA 'suppress any connection between LHO and Kostikov" in the first place?  

[Paul Trejo]

22 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

Thank you, Paul.  

First of all, Hosty said he heard this from an INS clerk, Jim Woolsey.  You seem to have walked by this.  Are you saying that you don't think that is possible? 

Second, you have done nothing as yet to demonstrate your position that "LHO did not meet Kostikov".  

Third, I don't find it appropriate to just stick Simpich's theory into this discussion without a reference to exactly what you are using to make your claim.  

Fourth, from whom would CIA 'suppress any connection between LHO and Kostikov" in the first place?  

Pamela,

My claim that LHO did not meet Kostikov is based 100% on Bill Simpich's theory (2014).   Are you asking me to begin quoting Bill Simpich here?  I thought we were going to cover James Hosty first.

Also -- if you accept that CIA really knew about an LHO-Kostikov connection (via Woolsey or anybody) then please share that CIA document.  Chris Newton has already shown that the only CIA document in October about LHO in MC had no reference to Kostikov.  That is strong evidence, IMHO.

IMHO, we should go on to the next citation from James Hosty that I find flimsy -- namely, pages 139-140 about Kostikov.  These pages are crucial because James Hosty actually names Alan Belmont -- Assistant Director of the FBI -- as one of the people who "knew" about the LHO-Kostikov connection, and deliberately withheld it from James Hosty.  

Let me actually quote Hosty's paragraphs here:

 ------ BEGIN HOSTY: ASSIGNMENT OSWALD -- pp. 139-140 ----------

As soon as I received my orders to appear before the Warren Commission, I began to prepare my testimony.  I retrieved the Oswald file...To my consternation, two key items were missing.  Someone had removed the two secret communications from FBI headquarters. One was the October 18, 1963 communique that indicated the CIA...had observed Oswald making contact with vice consul V. Kostikov at the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City.  The second one...Oswald had written to the Soviet Embassy...reporting that he had made contact with Kostikov.

Belmont, however, looked startled when I was explaining to Samuel Stern that I had read these two communiques.  He leaned over and muttered in my ear, "Damn it, I thought I told them not to let you see that one from the Washington field office!"  I was stunned.  Here was the head of all FBI investigations admitting that the FBI was deliberately trying to conceal matters from me.

 ------ END HOSTY: ASSIGNMENT OSWALD -- pp. 139-140 ----------

James Hosty now blames Alan Belmont himself.  This is where his argument seriously weakens.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 7, 2016 by Paul Trejo
citation

[Pat Speer]

Hosty's account of his discussion with Belmont makes perfect sense to me. The record shows that the FBI knew of the Oswald letter to the Soviet Embassy, in which he mentioned "Comrade Kostin", on the 18th. This is almost certainly the document Hosty recalls. And yes, indeed, it's missing. I've looked for it myself. But Hosty is wrong. This document almost certainly mentioned "Kostin" but not Kostikov. There is a CIA document, however, which shows they called the FBI on the morning of the 23rd to tell them they thought "Kostin" was Kostikov, and that he worked with Department 13, the department in charge of assassinations. The FBI then went into CYA mode, and sought to hide that they'd had four days to figure out who "Kostin" was, but had failed to do so, and had thereby failed to properly protect the President. They removed references to "Kostin" from Hosty's file. They told him to throw away the note. They then redacted references to their knowing about Kostin on the 18th from documents released to the public. (After months of haggling, I recently acquired an FBI document from the archives which shows that the "Kostin" letter was intercepted by the FBI on the 18th, and that Oswald's handwriting on the letter was confirmed on the 23rd.)

(While the disappearance and redaction of these documents may have been done to conceal that the FBI had been reading the Soviet Embassy's mail, this is a bit difficult to believe. Like the Russians didn't know we were reading their mail? Perhaps, then, the FBI had a real and legitimate concern that, if they admitted they'd had a copy of Oswald's letter long before the Russians gave them a copy, that this would get back to the handful of dummies writing the embassy every year who didn't know their letters were being read. Or, perhaps not. Perhaps it was all about protecting Hoover's rep. In either case, it makes sense to me that Belmont was trying to hide stuff from Hosty.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Pat Speer

[Chris Newton]

7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Also -- if you accept that CIA really knew about an LHO-Kostikov connection (via Woolsey or anybody) then please share that CIA document.  Chris Newton has already shown that the only CIA document in October about LHO in MC had no reference to Kostikov.  That is strong evidence, IMHO.

Wait. That's not what I said. I said that the 10/10/1963 cable that was disseminated to FBI, INS, etc. had no mention of Kostikov. An Internal cable on 10/9/1963 (Mex to HQ) certainly had CIA analysts looking at Kostikov in DC on 10/10/1963.

The inference is that Hosty used this cable (DIR 74673) in his book because it's existence was known but not it's content. The cable was declassified a decade later revealing Hosty's deception.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Chris Newton
clarification

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Wait. That's not what I said. I said that the 10/10/1963 cable that was disseminated to FBI, INS, etc. had no mention of Kostikov. An Internal cable on 10/9/1963 (Mex to HQ) certainly had CIA analysts looking at Kostikov in DC on 10/10/1963.

The inference is that Hosty used this cable (DIR 74673) in his book because it's existence was known but not it's content. The cable was declassified a decade later revealing Hosty's deception.

Chris,

OK, but to clarify -- the internal CIA cable of 10/9/1963 failed to make a direct link between Kostikov and LHO -- isn't that right?

And to further clarify -- you are ultimately agreeing with my premise that James Hosty deliberately attempted to deceive readers by speaking of an LHO-Kostikov connection, right?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo