David Lifton teases Final Charade on the Night Fright Show

[Micah Mileto]

Final Charade - for real this time.

 

Some topics teased:

1. Lifton doubles down on the alterations being performed before the autopsy and outside of the autopsy room, contradicting Horne et. al

2. It is likely that Oswald was killed at Parkland hospital after the shooting, as there was a noted presence of air bubbles in his heart area.

3. Oswald was meant to have been shot and killed in the Depository with no witnesses, the Jack Ruby shooting was a hasty backup plan.

4. Oswald most likely did carry a large package containing a rifle into the TSBD, however he was not a shooter.

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Micah Mileto

[David Von Pein]

http://Best-Evidence.blogspot.com

Edited February 5, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Micah Mileto]

14 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/david-von-pein-vs-david-lifton.html

I remember Lifton stated in this Night Fright show that Connally being wounded in the shooting caused some kind of a "system overload" in the conspiracy. Does he still concede to this day that all shots came from the front, including Connally? He didn't really say on the show. I would think that the sole purpose of doing it like that would to avoid others being wounded in the shooting.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Micah Mileto

[Daniel Gallup]

Let's hope David Lifton finishes his Magnum Opus soon.  If the finished work is as good as the effort he has put into it, it will be the crowning achievement of a life time.  Godspeed, David!

[Pamela Brown]

It was Lifton's BEST EVIDENCE that brought me back into the research community in 1988, after I had given up on anyone finding real answers to what happened.  A friend who is still a research colleague told me to read it.  I could not put it down.

Although David and I have had different points of view through the years, I can only hope that his new book is finally coming out.  I anticipate not being able to put this one down either. 

[Brad Milch]

Hello to all:

I placed these comments in another thread in response to a poster that I believe are more appropriate here in this thread:

Quote:

As time moves forward, I expect David Lifton to take the lead (and the heat) on the JFK body shell game that allegedly transpired after his violent death when David releases his next blockbuster, 'Final Charade' & his evidence of Lee Oswald being murdered at Parkland becomes readable around the globe (David discussed this & other explosive topics with a friend & Brent Holland on Brent's Nov 27, 2016 2 part episode of 'Night Fright Show' [posted at YouTube]). I also expect Mr. Lifton to suffer a crucifixion agenda for his efforts by those aligned with the MSM 'Dark Side',  comparable to what our Savior experienced centuries ago. First will be silence, then the ammo will fly online, on TV, radio & other communication mediums; all aimed at David Lifton & his supporters. I suspect David Lifton expects this & is prepared.

As to how JFK's body may have really left Dallas:

At present, it is not known what air traffic activity occurred at Love Field after the assassination. A total list is not known of any civilian or military planes that flew in or out before, during & post assassination; what their destinations & missions were. Such info has never been released to the global public in the 53 years since the Dallas crimes occurred. Keep in mind that Carswell AFB was just a few minutes away from Dallas. Military bases that were active in 1963 saturated the state of Texas. Their business & missions are not generally known by the public for obvious reasons.

Where is the media coverage of the crowds that expected JFK to return to Love Field while alive & dead? Where were the TV cameras covering LBJ's historic swearing in of the Presidential oath of office? How can the MSM miss a story of that magnitude 53 years ago?

The full story of the phantom C-130 that transported JFK's death limo & the SS followup car 'Queen Mary' out of Dallas has yet to be revealed or if any photos of the death limo were taken aboard that Charleston AFB aircraft that day. (comment added: Distinguished JFK researcher William Kelly informed the global public & presented evidence on his blog recently that that C-130 cargo aircraft that transported JFK's death limo & The SS Queen Mary from Love Field after the assassination was not logged in as having arrived at Andrews Air Force Base the afternoon, evening nor night of the assassination as well as the morning following. Although the ARRB released the aircraft's flight manifest (indicating who the pilot, co-pilot, loadmaster & passengers were), a paper trail of the aircraft's activities wherever it was flown & whatever it did, wherever it may have landed was not made public by the ARRB)

The reference to JFK being transported somewhere in an ambulance on the DPD police audio tapes is still a matter of intrigue.

David Lifton wrote more about 'Final Charade' in response to the list of questions I posted several months ago addressed to those attending a public appearance of Clint Hill & suggesting the audience ask questions routinely avoided in Clint Hill interviews & public appearances. I'll add his gracious comments to this thread when I locate the material in my personal library or the Education Forum link.

Update:

My original question suggestions are followed by David Lifton's response he posted here at the Education Forum. The emphasis in red is David's:

Brad Milch, on 31 Mar 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Mr. Caddy:

I'd like to compile a list of questions for Mr. Clint Hill here on your thread that he has not discussed publicly in interviews posted on the Internet, in MSM TV presentations or in books authored by Mr. Hill in the 53 years since the death of President Kennedy. Perhaps Mr. Hill will see the questions here at Ed Forum & realize people interested in the case would like to hear what his comments are on those topics. He might include comments on these topics at his latest advertised speaking engagement.

I'll start it off (feel free to add to this list):

1.  Mr. Hill, did you observe a bullet hole in the windshield of JFK's parade car on the way to Parkland or when the car arrived back in Washington, D.C.?

2.  What are your comments concerning David Lifton & Doug Horne both alleging that JFK's body was removed from the casket aboard AF-1 & placed in the aircraft's cargo bay at Love Field by SS men?

3.  Was JFK's body sent ahead to Bethesda via helicopter or black hearse prior to the grey Navy ambulance that the public was told contained JFK's casket that TV viewers witnessed Jackie Kennedy boarding on network TV? Was the coffin really empty? If so, why was a pre-autopsy of JFK done?

4. Did the JFK parade car make a stop just West of the Triple underpass immediately after the ambush, prior to entering the Stemmons Freeway? What occurred? Did an additional SS agent board the Presidential parade car? 

5.  Several witnesses are on record stating their either saw or smelled gun smoke in Dealey Plaza during or after the ambush. Did you see or smell gun smoke in Dealey plaza during & after the ambush?

6. Some early radio & TV news bulletins from Dealey Plaza as well as some witnesses (Bill Newman is one  such witness) described men quickly dismounting the SS followup car ('Queen Mary') with rifles or machine guns & running up the grassy knoll in pursuit of someone. Did you see any of this reported activity?

7. A famous photograph depicting JFK's limo & occupants (with you on the car's trunk) traveling to Parkland hospital following the ambush is believed to show either JFK's foot (or someone else's foot) or hand & elbow hanging out of the back seat of the car (I believe it's called the 'Miller' or the 'Corham photo'). Can you tell us what the photo actually depicts?

8.  What are your comments on the TV documentary called 'JFK - The Smoking Gun' that was shown globally in the last few years that puts forth the theory that an SS agent in the followup car behind JFK on Elm Street accidentally shot the late President while attempting to return fire to the alleged TSBD 6th floor sniper or the theories that JFK's driver (agent Bill Greer) murdered the President? Did you see or hear anyone in JFK's parade car or the SS followup car directly behind it fire any type of weapon(s) in Dealey Plaza?

9. In your memory, did any of the witness amateur films & photos of the assassination that you viewed in a Government employee capacity differ from what was released to the public in any way, shape or form?

10. If you could go back in time & experience the assassination again, what would you do differently this time?

BM

Brad:

I'm going to take this opportunity to provide you with my answers--based on my current knowledge--to some of these questions.

Re Q1: "1.  Mr. Hill, did you observe a bullet hole in the windshield of JFK's parade car on the way to Parkland or when the car arrived back in Washington, D.C.?"

    DSL Comment: As you know, SS agent Charles Taylor included such a statement in his report, which is part of Commission Document 80, and can be found in the Appendix to Six Seconds in Dallas.

    However, one must be careful, because --as was discovered a few years back (and based on a letter I wrote to the Church Committee--they actually interviewed Taylor and got him to sign an affidavit that made it appear he was incorrect.  (FWIW: I still believe his original statement).

Re Q2:  "What are your comments concerning David Lifton & Doug Horne both alleging that JFK's body was removed from the casket aboard AF-1 & placed in the aircraft's cargo bay at Love Field by SS men?"

   DSL Comment: I have no doubt that this occurred, and that Clint Hill knows it. (In Final Charade, I will set forth additional evidence that this occurred).

Re Q3: DSL comment: Yes, the coffin was empty.  There is no question about it.  Sgt. Roger Boyajian was in chargeo f morgue security. His report states that the body was delivered at  6:35 p.m.,  a good 20 minutes before the casket, which arrived in the naval ambulance carrying Jacqueline and Bobby Kennedy, and which arrived at 6:53 pm or 6:55 pm, depending on whether one goes by the time in Secret service reports, or the local press. (See Chapter 16 of Best Evidence, for details about the arrival of the naval ambulance).   See chapter 25 for the detailed account of Dennis David, first related to me  via telephone interview on July 2, 1979, that the body arrived approx 20 minutes prior to the arrival of the naval ambulance. See BEST EVIDENCE: The Research Video for my 1980 filmed interview with Dennis David, in which he specifies that the body arrived "a good 20 minutes" prior to the casket.  See the ARRB interviw of Dr. Humes, who (finally) admitted that he "first saw" the body at 6:45 p.m. about 10 minutes prior to the arrival of the naval ambulance,carrying Jackie, Bobby, and the Casket.  Bottom line: Yes, of course Clint Hill knows all about this (and so do other SS agents).

Re Q 4: "Did the JFK parade car make a stop just West of the Triple underpass immediately after the ambush, prior to entering the Stemmons Freeway? What occurred? Did an additional SS agent board the Presidential parade car?"

This is new, so those who follow this case read carefully: The answer is "yes", the car made a stop in connection with its negotiating the on ramp to the Stemmons Freeway and it was no minor matter. (But no, no additional SS agent boarded the limo at that point).

This past February, I learned of 3 witnesses who were standing at the Stemmons onramp, and who witnessed the stop.  They contacted me because they were getting on in years and wanted their accounts to become part of history.  Over the years (as one of them explained it to me) they became increasingly bothered that what they witnessed was not to be found in the public record.  I raised funds in order to finance a small film shoot, and went to Dallas/Ft Worth and  interviewed two of the witnesses.  After filming individual interviews at a residence, we all went to Dealey Plaza, and then to a location about 300 yards  (approx) west of the Triple Underpass, and to the spot where they were standing on November 22, 1963: (just on the other side --the north side--of the bridge carrying the north bound Stemmons lanes --i.e., the bridge carrying traffic on I-35E, northboud). There,   I filmed their accounts.  (For the record: No, no other agent boarded the car at that time). But there were other important developments in connection with that stop. Stay tuned).

Short answer: Clint Hill knows all about the stop at the Stemmons on ramp; and so do other agents.  None of this was included in their reports. This information--and these filmed interviews--will be released in connection with my future writing.  It goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the reporting of key Secret Service agents of the White House Detail.  Rest assured that their reports could not omit significant information without the approval of Gerald Behn, Chief of the White House Detail, and James Rowley, Chief of the U.S. Secret Service. (And frankly, I doubt that Rowley would dare omit significant information, or organize a cover-up without the approval of President Johnson).

Q7: The photograph in question (with "Corham" in the background) was taken by David Miller, and there is a chapter on it in Trask's book (Pictures of the Pain). Based on my analysis, and that of another JFK researcher, the foot is neither that of Clint Hill nor of President Kennedy.  Stay tuned.

Final statement: Clint Hill (and others) have made a decision not to "get involved" or make further statements about this case during their lifetime. They don't want to see this case re-opened, and they don't want the legal complications that could result.   Clint Hill (and the others) are now involved in what I call "The race to the cemetery."  They are more interested in their 401(k)'s than in the truth.  Sorry, but that's the way it is, so when you see Clint Hill behaving like a hero back on 11/22/63, and getting all those well deserved plaudits (and I certainly saw him in that light, until a few years ago) keep in mind how this story is going to end: that now, over age 80, Clint Hill has made his decision as to what to do next. And the answer (apparently) is nothing.  As Vince Palamara recently pointed out to me, Hill said on C-Span that he actually burned his original notes.  IMHO: Clinton Hill is no longer interested in truth in history. His top priority is his own personal welfare.

Properly questioned before a federal Grand Jury (which is where I believe he belongs), I believe he would face some very difficult choices.

DSL

5/7/16 - 7:35 p.m. PDT

Los Angeles, California

Edited by David Lifton

Sincerely & best to all,

Brad Milch

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Brad Milch

[David Lifton]

Hello Micah Mileto: Thanks for starting this thread. I'd like to debate more, but there's so much writing and "work to be done' that I have no time.  Again, many thanks. DSL

[Sandy Larsen]

On 11/29/2016 at 7:26 PM, Micah Mileto said:

1. Lifton doubles down on the alterations being performed before the autopsy and outside of the autopsy room, contradicting Horne et. al.

 

Michael,

It is my impression that Doug Horne essentially agrees with Lifton on the pre-autopsy autopsy stuff. Just maybe performed somewhere else.

So can you be more specific on how the two disagree?

[Micah Mileto]

3 hours ago, David Lifton said:

Hello Micah Mileto: Thanks for starting this thread. I'd like to debate more, but there's so much writing and "work to be done' that I have no time.  Again, many thanks. DSL

Why hello, thanks for coming

 

Here's something of a deal-breaker for the rear-blowout stuff for me:

 

1. If there's a hole on the top-right side of your head, and you're laying down on a table with your head tilted all the way back, couldn't that create an optical illusion like the hole is further back than it really is? I don't have hollywood prosthetics to demonstrate this, but I've looked at myself in the mirror with my hand on my head and I think it might work. 

 

2. How could so many people have seen the hole if it was so far back?

 

3. If there was an attempt to obliterate evidence for shots to the front, why didn't they try enlarging the skull wound to hide the forehead-right-eye entry and/or the right temple entry (as opposed to just cutting the scalp)? It's kind of impossible to go into the mind of someone involved in such a hypothetical charade on the fly, but I think it's worth asking.

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

43 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

It is my impression that Doug Horne essentially agrees with Lifton on the pre-autopsy autopsy stuff. Just maybe performed somewhere else.

So can you be more specific on how the two disagree?

Doug Horne theorizes that the alterations were made just a few minutes before the larger crowd of witnesses came in and the official autopsy started. The head wound was enlarged to look more comparable with a rear shot and/or to allow fragments/bullets to be removed, and a v-shaped incision was made above the right eye to make the hole there look more ambiguous.

I don't know about any of this, one could unambiguously argue for conspiracy with a single entry wound near the EOP, but one thing that does strike me is how Tom Robinson said that he remembered the wound above the right eye being innocently explained as a fragment of bone or bullet that exited from a rear shot. If there was a hole there, and the autopsy doctors did claim at the time that it was from a fragment, then that definitely makes the autopsy look like a giant charade because they later claimed no hole existed there. It's like they were making up the official story as they went along. Again, agnostic about all of this.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Micah Mileto

[Sandy Larsen]

Micah,

I hope DSL will answer your questions.(Though I think he already said he doesn't have time to.)

I believe that DSL is right about the pre-autopsy autopsy. If he doesn't answer your questions, I will do so.

 

[Micah Mileto]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Micah,

I hope DSL will answer your questions.(Though I think he already said he doesn't have time to.)

I believe that DSL is right about the pre-autopsy autopsy. If he doesn't answer your questions, I will do so.

 

Did you see what I said above about the optical illusion of the head tilted back? If that's true, then that alone could open a whole slew of mental suggestions, e.g. doctors thinking they saw cerebellum etc.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Micah Mileto

[Sandy Larsen]

4 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

44 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

It is my impression that Doug Horne essentially agrees with Lifton on the pre-autopsy autopsy stuff. Just maybe performed somewhere else.

So can you be more specific on how the two disagree?

Doug Horne theorizes that the alterations were made just a few minutes before the larger crowd of witnesses came in and the official autopsy started. The head wound was enlarged to look more comparable with a rear shot and/or to allow fragments/bullets to be removed, and a v-shaped incision was made above the right eye to make the hole there look more ambiguous

You know, I don't recall where DSL believes (or believed) the pre-autopsy autopsy took place. Maybe at Walter Reed Hospital?

Come to think of it, I didn't agree with all of what I read in the first edition of Best Evidence. It seems like it had the body coming into Bethesda Hospital in the fake coffin. And I thought it came in by helicopter. (I absolutely could be remembering this wrong.)

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that Doug Horne's theory is pretty much the same as DSL's... just some minor differences.

[Sandy Larsen]

16 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

I don't know about any of this, one could unambiguously argue for conspiracy with a single entry wound near the EOP, but one thing that does strike me is how Tom Robinson said that he remembered the wound above the right eye being described as a fragment of bone or bullet that exited from a rear shot. If there was a wound there, and the autopsy doctors did claim at the time that that was from a fragment, then that definitely makes the autopsy look like a giant charade because they later claimed no hole existed there. It's like they were making up the official story as they went along.

I can't comment on this as I have not studied the wound above the eye. I actually haven't seen it mentioned in any of the testimony I've read.

[Micah Mileto]

3 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

You know, I don't recall where DSL believes (or believed) the pre-autopsy autopsy took place. Maybe at Walter Reed Hospital?

Come to think of it, I didn't agree with all of what I read in the first edition of Best Evidence. It seems like it had the body coming into Bethesda Hospital in the fake coffin. And I thought it came in by helicopter. (I absolutely could be remembering this wrong.)

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that Doug Horne's theory is pretty much the same as DSL's... just some minor differences.

Horne theorizes that the body was transported via helicopter in the shipping casket to buy about 20 minutes of time before the official autopsy started. The alterations/obliterations were done on the autopsy table in front of a few witnesses until the rest of the witnesses were brought in. Dennis David said he saw a (the?) shipping casket brought in just a couple of minutes after hearing a helicopter land very nearby.