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The Handwritten Letter Compared With The Typed One, Et Cetera


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17 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

We only have Marina's revelation that Hosty visited on Oct. 27 and Hosty's and Ruth's agreement that he visited twice in early November to inquire "where is Oswald?". The next weekend is the "Kostin letter" 9, 10, 11 Nov. then we have a gap until Nov. 21st. Did Oswald get the plate number when he went that next week to FBI HQ?

I thought Marina said she copied it when Hosty was in Irving.  I don't think LHO would necessarilty have known which car was Hosty's went he went to the FBI HQ, but who knows? 

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18 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I haven't seen any statements from Ruth Paine that didn't agree with the Hosty story that there only two visits, Nov. 1st and Nov. 5th, which leads me to believe that this was what they agreed on. Marina's statement in front of the Secret Service and Postal Inspector Kelley and Hosty's acknowledgement that Ruth Paine had acted as interpreter on Oct. 27th indicates Marina wasn't on the same page. I'm not absolving Marina of any shenanigans, I just don't know at the moment.

If Ruth was "playing" Hosty that might elevate Ruth to being an asset of someone like DAP.

Or, it was the case.  The pre-visit might have been conducted by Fain.  

Anything is possible with Marina.  

I definitely think Ruth was working with someone, but I am thinking someone more like George deM.  I do realize GdM was in Haiti by then, but think Ruth's contact may have been outside of US intelligence agencies.

Edited by Pamela Brown
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17 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

What is your documentation that Hosty 'never spoke to Marina pre-assassination'? It is my understanding that he did speak with her.  He did not meet LHO until after his arrest.

Pamela,

Good question. We were discussing this in the other thread on "Kostikov, Hosty. etc".

 

This is Hosty's statement to the WC concerning the "first" visit on Nov. 1:

wchosty449.jpg

 

and here is his apparently somewhat untruthful  HSCA testimony:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60437#relPageId=16&tab=page

 

and finally this FBI summary of the "attempts to locate" :

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58949#relPageId=98&tab=page

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

I definitely think Ruth was working with someone, but I am thinking someone more like George deM.  I do realize GdM was in Haiti by then, but think Ruth's contact may have been outside of US intelligence agencies.

I agree that the DeM's should be on any short list of intelligence suspects. Bouhe too, probably.

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37 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

I thought Marina said she copied it when Hosty was in Irving.  I don't think LHO would necessarilty have known which car was Hosty's went he went to the FBI HQ, but who knows? 

See the WC document I posted just 2 msg's ago, last line. ...parked in front of vacant house right next door. The next visit Marina was standing in doorway just behind Ruth as Ruth talked to Hosty at the front door. Hosty was parked in same place or behind Ruth's station wagon depending on which tale Hosty was shillin' that day.

Impossible for Marina to get plate #

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On 12/16/2016 at 7:04 PM, Chris Newton said:

Pamela,

Good question. We were discussing this in the other thread on "Kostikov, Hosty. etc".

 

This is Hosty's statement to the WC concerning the "first" visit on Nov. 1:

wchosty449.jpg

 

and here is his apparently somewhat untruthful  HSCA testimony:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60437#relPageId=16&tab=page

 

and finally this FBI summary of the "attempts to locate" :

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58949#relPageId=98&tab=page

 

 

Nice sleuthing, Chris.  Interesting mention of the October visit in the FBI summary.  It does not say just how that information was gathered.  

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35 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Interesting mention of the October visit in the FBI summary.

One of the reasons the "October visit" may have been so important to bury is that LHO may have been home. In this context it's very important that Ruth refused to confirm any of these visitation dates on her own but instead deferred to the FBI's timeline.

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On 12/22/2016 at 1:57 PM, Chris Newton said:

One of the reasons the "October visit" may have been so important to bury is that LHO may have been home. In this context it's very important that Ruth refused to confirm any of these visitation dates on her own but instead deferred to the FBI's timeline.

If it was a weekday, wouldn't he have been at the TSBD? Interesting thought, though...

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  • 3 months later...

While researching the origins of the “Kostin” letter, I stumbled on an account, written by Priscilla Johnson McMillan in her tome “Marina and Lee”, of how Ruth Paine showed Oswald’s letter to her husband, Michael Paine. Priscilla Johnson McMillan had, of course, interviewed Lee Oswald herself in Moscow and her book was touted, at the time, as “required reading for anyone interested in what went on in the mind of the man accused of murdering a president.”. Ms. McMillan had been given extraordinary access to the extant files by all the agencies involved in the investigation, she even met and corresponded with Alan Dulles directly. I wasn’t surprised re-reading her chapters after so many years that I could now easily pick out the fact and the fiction. The way she weaves her story is very similar to how a prosecutor builds a case, and when some evidence is inconvenient she obfuscates or simply inserts a fictional account “to make it fit”.

So it’s a little unsurprising to read her account of how Michael was shown the letter in question by Ruth, She begins Chapter 35, “The President’s Visit”, with Michael Paine sitting in the living room on Tuesday, November 12 , “daydreaming” about what life would be like if he had “another mate”. Ruth had given him the letter to read and he although he resisted. “Finally, he glanced at the letter, but he read the opening not as “Dear Sirs” but as “Dear Lisa”…”

Ms. McMillan certainly had access to Michael Paines’s Warren Commission testimony because that is, in fact, what he said, that he thought that he read “Dear Lisa” but where and when he read it is important and that's not what his testimony indicated.

Michael Paine says he recalls being in bed when shown the letter in his Warren Commission testimony.

Ignoring the McMillan fiction for now, how does Michael’s recollection jive with all the other "Kostin letter" facts as testified to? It’s really inconvenient.

I’m not attempting to introduce anything salacious but when do you think this could occur given that Ruth’s petition for divorce was filed on Nov. 13th?

 

Edited by Chris Newton
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LOL.  That is a good one Chris.  You really have to wonder if the divorce action was simply a pretext.

BTW, where does the "Lisa" come from.

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5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW, where does the "Lisa" come from.

Jim,

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38&relPageId=414&search="Dear_Lisa"

It could not have been Saturday night (11/9), because Michael came on Sunday. It wasn't Sunday night (11/10) because that's the night she and Lee sat on the couch and watched late night TV. There's no evidence Michael was there Monday (11/11) before or after her lawyer's appointment, or Tuesday (11/12), or  anytime that week until the next Sunday (17th) despite what McMillan wrote.

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That still does not explain why he thought it said "Dear Lisa".

The other thing that is interesting:  If they are so outraged about the letter because it is fiction, does that not then denote that no one there thought he returned to Dallas from Mexico?

But then what makes it even odder, is that when the WC has difficulty placing him in Mexico, who do they turn to? Good ole Ruthie. And guess what, there was stuff there in her garage which she and the DPD overlooked that placed him there.

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7 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

That still does not explain why he thought it said "Dear Lisa".

Well, I guess in McMillan's account she suggests that Michael was "daydreaming" of "another mate" so when he glanced at the letter he "saw" "Dear Lisa," instead of "Dear Sirs".

Given everything else she wrote, I'm surprised that McMillan missed the opportunity to suggest Michael was in bed with Ruth "daydreaming" about another woman.

 

or actually he read a different letter.

 

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Wait a minute,  i think I am just getting this:

 

 PJM put that in there to suggest a coming break up between the Paines?

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