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The Handwritten Letter Compared With The Typed One, Et Cetera


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8 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Ask and ye shall receive....  There's MAR 12 from the Dallas PO.  Seems to me you can make out both digits in all cases.

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I'm talking about the spacing.

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18 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Some are spaced... some are right next to the month...

There does not appear to be a "1" in front of that "2" for Nov 12.

How observant. 

I guess the evil, evil CIA really screwed up, huh.

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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So, KGB agent Oleg Nechiporenko explained that Oswald really did meet Kostikov in Mexico City during the final week of September, 1963.  In his book, Passport to Assassination (1993), Nechiporenko said that he and KGB agent Valeriy Kostikov both agreed that Oswald was "psychotic."

Also, there really was an FBI memo of October 18, 1963, linking Oswald with a KGB Kostikov in Mexico City.  James Hosty claimed that he saw this memo in late October, 1963, in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996).  So, Hosty was telling the truth there.  The word got around from the CIA to the FBI very fast.

So, although Kostin is also a Russian name, and I used to believe that Oswald met Kostin in Mexico City, as he said in his typewritten, "Soviet Embassy" letter of November 12, 1963, I have changed my mind.

I now agree with Oleg Nechiporenko.  Kostin was a common Russian name that Oswald probably heard often when he lived in Russia for two years.  Also, Oswald didn't know who Kostikov was, even when sitting face to face with him.  So, in his "Soviet Embassy" letter, we notice Oswald calling Kostkov, "comrade Kostin."

So, Oswald really did meet Kostikov -- but Oswald didn't know that Kostikov was a KGB assassin -- or anything else about him.

So -- what was the purpose of the "Soviet Embassy" letter?   Evidently to be intercepted by Ruth Paine and the FBI -- just to shock them.  Oswald was still working for Guy Banister -- and he was still going for that fat reward for helping to assassinate Fidel Castro.

That's how Lee Harvey Oswald became the Patsy of the JFK assassination.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

So, KGB agent Oleg Nechiporenko explained that Oswald really did meet Kostikov in Mexico City during the final week of September, 1963.  In his book, Passport to Assassination (1993), Nechiporenko said that he and KGB agent Valeriy Kostikov both agreed that Oswald was "psychotic."

Also, there really was an FBI memo of October 18, 1963, linking Oswald with a KGB Kostikov in Mexico City.  James Hosty claimed that he saw this memo in late October, 1963, in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996).  So, Hosty was telling the truth there.  The word got around from the CIA to the FBI very fast.

So, although Kostin is also a Russian name, and I used to believe that Oswald met Kostin in Mexico City, as he said in his typewritten, "Soviet Embassy" letter of November 12, 1963, I have changed my mind.

I now agree with Oleg Nechiporenko.  Kostin was a common Russian name that Oswald probably heard often when he lived in Russia for two years.  Also, Oswald didn't know who Kostikov was, even when sitting face to face with him.  So, in his "Soviet Embassy" letter, we notice Oswald calling Kostkov, "comrade Kostin."

So, Oswald really did meet Kostikov -- but Oswald didn't know that Kostikov was a KGB assassin -- or anything else about him.

So -- what was the purpose of the "Soviet Embassy" letter?   Evidently to be intercepted by Ruth Paine and the FBI -- just to shock them.  Oswald was still working for Guy Banister -- and he was still going for that fat reward for helping to assassinate Fidel Castro.

That's how Lee Harvey Oswald became the Patsy of the JFK assassination.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

So, so, so, so, so, what are we to make of "thirty-five year old, short, thin-bodied, blond-haired, very thin-faced" Nikolai Leonov's assertion in his book and in National Enquirer magazine that the meeting with crying, revolver-packin' Oswald took place not on  Saturday, 9/28, but on Sunday, 9/29, and that said highly-dramatic meeting with Oswald took place with only himself (Leonov) in attendance?

Just implausible, wrong-dated "overkilll regarding the alleged emotional instability of Oswald, ..... or a rather so-so clumsy attempt by Leonov to disassociate himself from his 9/27 role as Duran's and Azcue's short, blond-haired, very thin-faced "Oswald"?

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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5 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

So, so, so, so, so, what are we to make of "thirty-five year old, short, thin-bodied, blond-haired, very thin-faced" Nikolai Leonov's assertion in his book and in National Enquirer magazine that the meeting with crying, revolver-packin' Oswald took place not on  Saturday, 9/28, but on Sunday, 9/29, and that said highly-dramatic meeting with Oswald took place with only himself (Leonov) in attendance?

Just implausible, wrong-dated "overkilll regarding the alleged emotional instability of Oswald, ..... or a rather so-so clumsy attempt by Leonov to disassociate himself from his 9/27 role as Duran's and Azcue's short, blond-haired, very thin-faced "Oswald"?

--  Tommy :sun

Tommy,

Either Leonov was lying or Nechiporenko was lying, because the latter claimed that both he and Kostikov dealt with the pistol-packing Oswald.

My guess is that Lexonov was lying, because he was selling a story to the low-brow National Enquirer.  He wasn't under oath, nor would any serious writer check his facts, so he just borrowed this story from Nechiporenko, IMHO.

By the way, Nechiporenko didn't describe Oswald as scary; only as a crybaby and 'psychotic.'

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Tommy,

Either Leonov was lying or Nechiporenko was lying, because the latter claimed that both he and Kostikov dealt with the pistol-packing Oswald.

My guess is that Lexonov was lying, because he was selling a story to the low-brow National Enquirer.  He wasn't under oath, nor would any serious writer check his facts, so he just borrowed this story from Nechiporenko, IMHO.

By the way, Nechiporenko didn't describe Oswald as scary; only as a crybaby and 'psychotic.'

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, obviously, one (or both of them) was lying, but why would a "retired" Lt. General of the KGB (Leonov) prevaricate like that?  For the money?  Really?

You do realize, don't you, that he's written a book (in Russian language) in which he recounts the same story?

What would his buddy, former KGB officer and head of the FSB, Vladimir Putin, think about Leonov's contradicting the official Nechiporinko - Kostikov - Yasov "line" like that?

--  Tommy :sun

 

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What is the proof that Oswald met with the Chief Consul at the Russian Embassy while he was in Mexico City?

Are you saying it was the Passport to Assassination book?  Contracted out by American journalist Brian Litman and in which we have Oswald showing up at the Russian consulate on a Saturday morning, but hey the Sovs are there because they have a regular volleyball game scheduled.  

This is how they describe Oswald--he is extremely agitated and clearly nervous especially whenever the FBI is mentioned.  He then becomes suddenly hysterical, begins to sob, and "through his tears cried, "I am afraid..they'll kill me.  Let me in!"  Repeating over and over that he was being persecuted and that he was being followed even here in Mexico, he stuck his right hand into the left pocket of his jacket and pulled out a revolver, saying, "See? This is what I must now carry to protect my life"  And placed the revolver on the desk where we were sitting opposite one another." (p. 77)

Yatskov emptied the revolver. Oswald does not take the visa applications.  But a telling point follows.  See, Litman knew that the Lopez Report said there was never any photo of Oswald entering or leaving either consulate. So he has the story like this: Oswald leaves the compound but pulls his jacket over his head so he won't be photographed. No explanation is given as to why Oswald would do such a thing. Or how he knew where the cameras were. As Robert Dunne once wrote, this added a very neat piece of Chekovian drama to the idea of a desperate, end of his rope, suicidal Oswald in Mexico.  (Robert was clever, Chekhov was a great Russian playwright.)

If you buy this Paul, then fine, it proves you will buy just about anything. Even Ruth Paine's nonsensical story about that letter to the Russian embassy in Washington.

Or the wild insistence that Duran thought Leonov was Oswald.

I worry at what has happened to this forum. We once had Robert C. Dunne, Dwayne Dunn, Robert Howard, Lee Farley, Pat Speer, Martin Hay  and many others, who only wanted to exchange and discuss information. Its now turned into a politically based group of tireless axe grinders, who use any pretext to advance their ideas, no matter how flawed or weak they are. And they then get personal when someone disagrees, no matter how well founded the disagreement is.

Makes me wax nostalgic.

Edited by James DiEugenio
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5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

[...]

Or the wild insistence that Duran thought Leonov was Oswald.

[...]

 

You're right, of course, Jim.

There were lots of 5' 6", blond-haired, blue-eyed, thin-bodied, very thin-faced, 35-year-old guys walking around Mexico City that September.  

They were enticed to go there, of course, by stories they'd heard about the cerveza and the enchiladas, believing that if they drank and ate enough of them that not only would their face fill out, but that they would gain 3.5 inches in height and then REALLY appeal to that saucy little Sylvia Duran.

 

Image result for "leonov "blond oswald"

--  Tommy :sun

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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On 5/4/2017 at 6:52 PM, James DiEugenio said:

What is the proof that Oswald met with the Chief Consul at the Russian Embassy while he was in Mexico City?

Are you saying it was the Passport to Assassination book?  Contracted out by American journalist Brian Litman and in which we have Oswald showing up at the Russian consulate on a Saturday morning, but hey the Sovs are there because they have a regular volleyball game scheduled.

This is how they describe Oswald--he is extremely agitated and clearly nervous especially whenever the FBI is mentioned.  He then becomes suddenly hysterical, begins to sob, and "through his tears cried, "I am afraid..they'll kill me.  Let me in!"  Repeating over and over that he was being persecuted and that he was being followed even here in Mexico, he stuck his right hand into the left pocket of his jacket and pulled out a revolver, saying, "See? This is what I must now carry to protect my life"  And placed the revolver on the desk where we were sitting opposite one another." (p. 77)

Yatskov emptied the revolver. Oswald does not take the visa applications.  But a telling point follows.  See, Litman knew that the Lopez Report said there was never any photo of Oswald entering or leaving either consulate. So he has the story like this: Oswald leaves the compound but pulls his jacket over his head so he won't be photographed. No explanation is given as to why Oswald would do such a thing. Or how he knew where the cameras were. As Robert Dunne once wrote, this added a very neat piece of Chekovian drama to the idea of a desperate, end of his rope, suicidal Oswald in Mexico.  (Robert was clever, Chekhov was a great Russian playwright.)

If you buy this Paul, then fine, it proves you will buy just about anything. Even Ruth Paine's nonsensical story about that letter to the Russian embassy in Washington.

Or the wild insistence that Duran thought Leonov was Oswald.

I worry at what has happened to this forum. We once had Robert C. Dunne, Dwayne Dunn, Robert Howard, Lee Farley, Pat Speer, Martin Hay  and many others, who only wanted to exchange and discuss information. Its now turned into a politically based group of tireless axe grinders, who use any pretext to advance their ideas, no matter how flawed or weak they are. And they then get personal when someone disagrees, no matter how well founded the disagreement is.

Makes me wax nostalgic.

James,

You are mistaken on so many points.

First, you say that the Oswald "suicide" dramatics in Mexico City were invented by the Soviets. Yet the US Embassy in the USSR said the same thing about Oswald -- he actually slit his wrists to get into the USSR.

Now -- Oswald didn't slit them very deep -- but it was shocking to everybody, and he was rushed to a hospital -- and it probably convinced some bureaucrats that Oswald was sincere, and that was flattering to their love of the Soviet system -- so they let him into the USSR.

Having succeeded with such dramatics in the USSR, it makes sense that Oswald would try dramatics again in the USSR Embassy in Mexico City.

Also, you wish to dismiss Oleg Nechiporenko's book, Passport to Assassination (1993), but you ignore the fact that David Lifton advocates it, and Lifton disagrees with you.

Also, the Lopez Report said there were no photos of Oswald ANYWHERE except those he brought himself -- but we know from Bill Simpich (2014) that the photos of Oswald taken in Mexico City Embassy compound were confiscated in a CIA Mole Hunt.   So, your CT is out-of-date.

Also, you cite all your old pals who agreed with you years ago on this Forum, and you wax nostalgic for the "good old days" when things were allegedly more objective.  However, Lee Farley was exceedingly biased in his denial that Oswald ever beat Marina at any time.  He was emotional about it, despite a half-dozen eye-witnesses, and over twenty character witnesses.

So -- right -- Probe Magazine has fallen.   Jeff Caufield, Bill Simpich and David Lifton are the current writers of interest.

As for the "Soviet Embassy letter," it is not an invention of Quaker Charity lady Ruth Paine -- on the contrary -- it harmonizes perfectly with the Lopez Report.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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56 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

James,

You are mistaken on so many points.

First, you say that the Oswald "suicide" dramatics in Mexico City were invented by the Soviets. Yet the US Embassy in the USSR said the same thing about Oswald -- he actually slit his wrists to get into the USSR.

Now -- Oswald didn't slit them very deep -- but it was shocking to everybody, and he was rushed to a hospital -- and it probably convinced some bureaucrats that Oswald was sincere, and that was flattering to their love of the Soviet system -- so they let him into the USSR.

Having succeeded with such dramatics in the USSR, it makes sense that Oswald would try dramatics again in the USSR Embassy in Mexico City.

Also, you wish to dismiss Oleg Nechiporenko's book, Passport to Assassination (1993), but you ignore the fact that David Lifton advocates it, and Lifton disagrees with you.

Also, the Lopez Report said there were no photos of Oswald ANYWHERE except those he brought himself -- but we know from Bill Simpich (2014) that the photos of Oswald taken in Mexico City Embassy compound were confiscated in a CIA Mole Hunt.   So, your CT is out-of-date.

Also, you cite all your old pals who agreed with you years ago on this Forum, and you wax nostalgic for the "good old days" when things were allegedly more objective.  However, Lee Farley was exceedingly biased in his denial that Oswald ever beat Marina at any time.  He was emotional about it, despite a half-dozen eye-witnesses, and over twenty character witnesses.

So -- right -- Probe Magazine has fallen.   Jeff Caufield, Bill Simpich and David Lifton are the current writers of interest.

As for the "Soviet Embassy letter," it is not an invention of Quaker Charity lady Ruth Paine -- on the contrary -- it harmonizes perfectly with the Lopez Report.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul Trejo wrote: "..... he actually slit his wrists to get into the USSR."

He was already IN the USSR. Two and a half months later they gave him residency status

Paul Trejo wrote: Now ..... that was flattering to their love of the Soviet system -- so they let him into the USSR.

He was already in the USSR. They did not provide him with citizenship, although he requested citizenship, surrendered his passport, renounced US citizenship and wrote his family asking that they never try to canotact him again.

 

 

Diary of LHO:

Oct.16. Arrive from Helsinki by train ;am met by Intourest Repre.and in car to Hotel "Berlin". Reges. as. "studet" 5 day Lux .tourist. Ticket.) Meet my Intorist guied Rimma Sherikova I explain to her I wish to appli. for Rus.citizenship. She is flabber;assed, but aggrees to help. She checks with her boss, main officeIntour;than helps me add.a letter to Sup.Sovit asking for citizenship, mean while boss telephone passport & visa office and notifies them about me. 

Oct. 21 (morning). Meeting with single official. Balding stout, black suit fairly good English, asks what do I want? I say Soviet citizenship. He ask why I give vague answers about "Great Soviet Union." He tells me "USSR only great in Literature," wants me to go back home. I am stunned; I reiterate. He says he shall check and let me know whether my visa will be (extended it expires today). 
Eve. 6.00 Receive word from police official. I must leave country tonight at 8.00 P.M. as visa expires. I am shocked!! My dreams! I retire to my room. I have $100. left. I have waited for 2 years to be accepted. My fondest dreams are shattered because of a petty official; because of bad planning. I planned too much! 7.00 P.M. I decide to end it. Soak wrist in cold water to numb the pain. Then slash my left wrist. Then plug wrist into bathtub of hot water. I think "when Rima comes at 8 to find me dead, it will be a great shock." Somewhere, a violin plays, as I 

Oct.31. I make my dision. Getting passport at 12"00 I meet and talk with Rimma for a few minutes she says:stay in your room and eat well, I don't tell her about what I intend to do since I know she would not approve. After she leaves I wait a few minutes and than I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. 12"30, I arrive American Embassy, I walk in and say to the receptionist `I would like to see the Consular" she points at a large lager and says"if you a tourist please register". I take out my American passport and lay it o the desk. "I have come to dissolve my American citizenship. I saymatter-of-factly she rises and enters the office of Richard Snyder 

American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit r down. He finishes a letter he is typing and then asks what he can do for me. I tell him I have dicided to take Soviet citizenship and would like to leagly dissolve my U .S.citizenship. His assitant (now Head Consular) McVickers e looks up from his work . Snyder serys- takes down personall Information, 

Jan 4. I am called to passsport office and finally given a Soviet document, not the soviet citizenship as I so wanted, only a Residence document, not even for foreigners but a paper called, "for those without citizenship." 

Jan.5. ........I wrote my brother & mother letters in which I said "I do not wish to every contact you again." Iam defining a new life and I don't wand any part of the old".

July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about getting my US passport back."

 

Edited by Michael Clark
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40 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Paul Trejo wrote: "..... he actually slit his wrists to get into the USSR."

He was already IN the USSR. Two and a half months later they gave him residency status

Paul Trejo wrote: Now ..... that was flattering to their love of the Soviet system -- so they let him into the USSR.

He was already in the USSR. They did not provide him with citizenship, although he requested citizenship, surrendered his passport, renounced US citizenship and wrote his family asking that they never try to canotact him again.

 

 

Diary of LHO:

Oct.16. Arrive from Helsinki by train ;am met by Intourest Repre.and in car to Hotel "Berlin". Reges. as. "studet" 5 day Lux .tourist. Ticket.) Meet my Intorist guied Rimma Sherikova I explain to her I wish to appli. for Rus.citizenship. She is flabber;assed, but aggrees to help. She checks with her boss, main officeIntour;than helps me add.a letter to Sup.Sovit asking for citizenship, mean while boss telephone passport & visa office and notifies them about me. 

Oct. 21 (morning). Meeting with single official. Balding stout, black suit fairly good English, asks what do I want? I say Soviet citizenship. He ask why I give vague answers about "Great Soviet Union." He tells me "USSR only great in Literature," wants me to go back home. I am stunned; I reiterate. He says he shall check and let me know whether my visa will be (extended it expires today). 
Eve. 6.00 Receive word from police official. I must leave country tonight at 8.00 P.M. as visa expires. I am shocked!! My dreams! I retire to my room. I have $100. left. I have waited for 2 years to be accepted. My fondest dreams are shattered because of a petty official; because of bad planning. I planned too much! 7.00 P.M. I decide to end it. Soak wrist in cold water to numb the pain. Then slash my left wrist. Then plug wrist into bathtub of hot water. I think "when Rima comes at 8 to find me dead, it will be a great shock." Somewhere, a violin plays, as I 

Oct.31. I make my dision. Getting passport at 12"00 I meet and talk with Rimma for a few minutes she says:stay in your room and eat well, I don't tell her about what I intend to do since I know she would not approve. After she leaves I wait a few minutes and than I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. 12"30, I arrive American Embassy, I walk in and say to the receptionist `I would like to see the Consular" she points at a large lager and says"if you a tourist please register". I take out my American passport and lay it o the desk. "I have come to dissolve my American citizenship. I saymatter-of-factly she rises and enters the office of Richard Snyder 

American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit r down. He finishes a letter he is typing and then asks what he can do for me. I tell him I have dicided to take Soviet citizenship and would like to leagly dissolve my U .S.citizenship. His assitant (now Head Consular) McVickers e looks up from his work . Snyder serys- takes down personall Information, 

Jan 4. I am called to passsport office and finally given a Soviet document, not the soviet citizenship as I so wanted, only a Residence document, not even for foreigners but a paper called, "for those without citizenship." 

Jan.5. ........I wrote my brother & mother letters in which I said "I do not wish to every contact you again." Iam defining a new life and I don't wand any part of the old".

July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about getting my US passport back."

 

Dear Michael,

Did Oswald effectively renounce his citizenship, or did he only appear to try to do so, you know, so dad-gum near the embassy's closing time that Saturday AM?

--  Tommy :sun

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3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Michael,

Did Oswald effectively renounce his citizenship, or did he only appear to try to do so, you know, so dad-gum near the embassy's closing time that Saturday AM?

--  Tommy :sun

 

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7 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

 

Dear Michael,

Regardless of what was written in his "Historic Diary," did the State Department determine that Oswald had effectively renounced his U.S. citizenship?

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Michael,

Regardless of what was written in his "Historic Diary," did the State Department  determine that Oswald had effectively renounced his U.S. citizenship?

--  Tommy :sun

The Yeltsin papers on Marie Fonzie's site fill-out the rest of that story.

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