Thomas Graves

Was Lovelady A Big Fat Prevaricator, Or What?

143 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

My bad.  Never mind.  I didn't mean to include Bart's excellent post here.  I'm still trying to figure out this new format. --  Tommy :sun

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say. 
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.  [hint, hint]
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. 
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. 
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you [meaning Lovelady and Shelley] leave the steps and go toward the tracks? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. 

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28 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say. 
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.  [hint, hint]
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. 
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. 
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you [meaning Lovelady and Shelley] leave the steps and go toward the tracks? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. 

 

1 )  As though Lovelady would've timed Calvary's run  if  he'd had a watch.   LOL

2 )  If Lovelady and Shelley had stayed on the front steps that long, why aren't either of them visible on the steps in Couch / Darnell?

 

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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 He may have been trying to say that since he did not have a watch, he was not accustomed to "timing things". I have had witnesses say similar things under oath. 

 Was he overweight?  Does it matter? In the final scheme do any of the thousands of dots connect this coup completely?

 

 

 

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I believe Lovelady is visible on the steps. Our left, partway down, facing the camera. Bent over as though speaking to the person below him facing him. He seems to rise up partially from this position.

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12 hours ago, Ken Davies said:

 He may have been trying to say that since he did not have a watch, he was not accustomed to "timing things". I have had witnesses say similar things under oath. 

 Was he overweight?  Does it matter? In the final scheme do any of the thousands of dots connect this coup completely?

 

 

 

 

Dear Ken,

Do you really think a person needs to be in the habit of "timing things" with a watch in order to be able to give a fairly-accurate estimate (say plus or minus 25%) of how long something takes, especially when the event in question is something that happens fairly quickly, like between 20 seconds and 3 minutes?  

--  Tommy :sun

 

 

 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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I agree, Thomas. In order for Lovelady and Shelley to be seen walking down the Elm St. extension, as Baker runs for the TSBD entrance, would have required Calvery to have run up Elm St. to the steps in about ten seconds, relay her story on the steps to Lovelady and Shelley in three to four seconds and for Shelley and Lovelady to have sprinted off the steps to their position in the Couch film in about three to four seconds. 

Hardly something one could mistake for 3-4 minutes just for the storyteller to make it to the steps.

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33 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

I believe Lovelady is visible on the steps. Our left, partway down, facing the camera. Bent over as though speaking to the person below him facing him. He seems to rise up partially from this position.

Dear Bob,

You might be right (I can't believe I just said that), but I tend to think it's a woman wearing a light-colored head scarf and slowly climbing the steps.

If it IS Lovelady, then we gotta ask what --  "What was he doing kneeling down like that right then?" Finishing his yummy, yummy lunch?

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Speaking to Gloria Calvery?

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6 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Speaking to Gloria Calvery?

 

If so, then who, you know, prevaricated in their testimonies / statements?

Or maybe it would be simpler to ask, "Who didn't?"

 

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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You always have asked the best questions, my friend.

Who indeed? Or is it whom? I can never get that one straight.

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59 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

You always have asked the best questions, my friend.

Who indeed? Or is it whom? I can never get that one straight.

Who.

That's the question.

Did everyone lie except Vicki Adams and Lee Harvey Oswald?

--  Tommy :sun

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Another good question.

During my recent "holiday" I have been watching the debate on this forum. It's good to see Bill Miller reviving the Calvery/Lovelady/Shelley debacle but I don't think he quite appreciates how deeply we dug into this matter before his arrival.

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4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

something

 

Tommy,

Yes, I do. Witnesses often have trouble with time. Also, most of the labourers, in my neck of the world,did not wear watches to work in the 60s.

He may or may not have been stretching the truth, but his comments are not "beyond belief".  I joined The American Trial Lawyers Association in 1979. I have dealt with a few witnesses since then.😉

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I looked at Darnell and Couch films and read the Testimonies.

I see it this way.

Lovelady and Shelley leave the steps and start walking diagonally across the the concrete island, as they almost get there Gloria Calvery and Baker reach their position

as Gloria is running passed them crying she say's the president was shot and keeps running.

Lovelady said in his Testimony that someone yelled out, and then he turned around from his position near the concrete island, and saw Baker and Truly enter the TSBD

 

Lovelady and Shelley then proceeded to walk down to the railway tracks and returned a while later and entered the TSBD via the back entrance

at 12:50PM we see Lovelady in front of the steps in the Hughes and Martin films.

at 2:00 PM we see Lovelady and Oswald in the DPD

 

Edited by Robin Unger

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21 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

I looked at Darnell and Couch films and read the Testimonies.

I see it this way.

Lovelady and Shelley leave the steps and start walking diagonally across the the concrete island, as they almost get there Gloria Calvery and Baker reach there position

as Gloria is running passed them crying she say's the president was shot and keeps running.

Lovelady said in his Testimony that someone yelled out, and then he turned around from his position near the concrete island, and saw Baker and Truly enter the TSBD

 

Lovelady and Shelley then proceeded to walk down to the railway tracks and returned a while later and entered the TSBD via the back entrance

at 12:50PM we see Lovelady in front of the steps in the Hughes and Martin films.

at 2:00 PM we see Lovelady and Oswald in the DPD

 

You deduced all of this from reading the testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley?

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