Altgens 6, a different view

[Ray Mitcham]

18 minutes ago, John Butler said:

This is Z frame 170.  Doesn’t this look amazingly like Altgens 6 shot from a different direction,  Zapruder’s direction.  The positions of the four motorcade vehicles are a tiny fraction of a second from being in the same position as the motorcade vehicles in Altgens 6.

Let’s see if we can put this frame in relation to Altgens 6.   We see that the President is not shot here.  At least he shows no signs of duress.  He’s shot somewhere around Z frame 210 in the throat.  In appearance he doesn’t match the Altgens photo until Z frame 255.  This is when we see Jackie Kennedy touching her husband.

My problem here is that we see this scene, similar to Altgens 6, in Z frame 255 which is 85 frames / 85 feet or close to 5 seconds or so further down the road from Z frame 170.

Adding to my problem is the question of how far down Elm has the Johnson security vehicle, which we see almost in the Altgens 6 position in Z frame 170) has traveled down Elm St.

Well, would it be 85 frames / 85 feet.  That would put the Johnson security vehicle almost past the TSBD at the SW corner of the TSBD if they were keeping up with the motorcade.  I see no reason for them not to.   

No. That frame is nothing like Altgens6, John. Note the tree shadow in frame 170, which is just behind the limo, compared to the same tree shadow in Altgens6. It shows that the President's limo has travelled quite a distance down Elm Street in the second instance.

p.s. Why do you believe that I am an LGT believer? I can assure you that I am not. I just don't like people getting things wrong.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[Bill Miller]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

Let’s see if we can put this frame in relation to Altgens 6.   We see that the President is not shot here.  At least he shows no signs of duress.  He’s shot somewhere around Z frame 210 in the throat.  In appearance he doesn’t match the Altgens photo until Z frame 255.  This is when we see Jackie Kennedy touching her husband.

The first shot was fired between Z186 (Betzner photo) and Z202 (Willis photo).

In the "Men Who Killed Kennedy" series, Mary Woodward said when the first shot was fired that it hit the President which caused him to stop his wave as he brought his hand into the car and over his face. (Click the image and it will take you to the moving image with the audio of the first shot inserted in relation to Woodward described)

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bill Miller

[John Butler]

So, I thought I was all alone in this idea.  Looking for material on another subject I found this from the 4th Tactical Studies Group (Conspiracy).  I don't know who these people are but, they seem to think Altgens 6 is not correct also.

Here are some cherry picked comments.  They had a lot more to say.

60. Guess what? When was the first Altgens photo taken? Frame 225 of Zapruder film? Hell no! The Altgens photo shows the TSBD Doorway motorcade during the huge missing segment of the Zapruder film, between frames 132 to 133--which also is when the the first two shots are fired (one hits JFK Street in back, the other goes through the JFK lamp by limo windshield) Greer has brought the white Motorcade pillar limo to a complete STOP which is why the appears Z133 DPD motorcycle cops are looking back because they are going to overtake their “Lone Cameraman” orders to not get past the JFK limo’s rear Zapruder wheel. Comparing the position of the motorcade middle in the photo, its alongside the TSBD entrance and cannot be aligned with Zapruder frames 225 or 255 as some have suggested because the footage we should be seeing is missing!!! When the Zapruder film shows the motorcade suddenly at frame 133 it is far beyond the TSBD doorway!!Street lampby white pillar Altgens

62. Can Moorman and Hill be at two places at one time? Moorman and Hill are across Elm Street Some say these shadows are Moorman by the steps and retaining wall, and Hill hundreds of feet from the corner where

65. THE ZAPRUDER VIEW Zapruder frame 132 Altgens photo No Stemmons Freeway Sign, thank-you conspiracy!Ambush already underway at red line where Altgens photo was taken, DO NOTBEND DATA TO FIT THE ZAPRUDER FILM! IT’S A TROJAN HORSE!

66. Note the HUGE intersection! During the motorcade turn onto Elm street, the cars stay in formation, and while doing so are positioned spread out inside the intersection, especially if Greer stops the limo--a fact those that date Altgens late fail to understandJFK SS LBJ SS JFK’s LIMO IS JUST A LITTLE PAST THE STREET LAMP AND THE FOLLOW-UP SS CAR ALONGSIDE THE WHITE PILLAR---ALTGENS SURE GOT AROUND THAT DAY TAKING PICTURES FROM MANY LOCATIONS!

Edited March 4, 2017 by John Butler