Was the "coke" a Dr. Pepper?

[Pat Speer]

Just a quick thought. A few years back someone. (I think it was Bugliosi), in an incredibly desperate attempt at slamming the door on Oswald's innocence, claimed Oswald's drinking a coke was proof of his guilt--because Oswald would normally drink Dr. Pepper. Well, this was lame from the get-go. Many people, myself included, drink Dr. Pepper and Coke interchangeably.

But it's worse than that. Far worse. I don't recall if this point was made at the time, but it turns out Texans use the term "coke" as a generic term applying to all soda. So perhaps Oswald was drinking a Dr. Pepper after all. I took a quick look and it appears that all the testimony regarding this was about a "coke" and not a "Coca-Cola."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/soda-vs-pop_n_2103764.html

P.S. In looking at this a bit closer, I've realized that Buell Frazier told Bugliosi the second floor coke machine sold only Coke. As a result, it seems probable the "coke" in Oswald's hands was yessirree a Coke.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Pat Speer

[Alistair Briggs]

Pat,

Where I am (Glasgow, Scotland), nowadays most soft drinks come in plastic bottles, ranging in size from 250ml up to 2litres (occassionally more). In days gone buy one of the most popular choice of fizzy drink was a 750ml one that came in a glass bottle (they are still available these days but not to the same extent as before as they have been somewhat superceeded by the plastic bottles).

There was a wide choice of drink available in glass bottles, such as lemonade, orangeade, limeade, raspberryade, ginger beer, cola, Irn Bru, Tizer, American Cream Soda... The generic term applying to the glass bottles would be 'ginger'.

The following conversation could be typical;

"Am awa to the shops, ye want sumting?"
"Aye, get us a bottle a ginger"
"Whit kind?"
"Limeade wid hit the spot"

(We are a mad lot us Glaswegians. lol)

There is mostly only 3 types of cola available over here, Coca-Cola, Pesi Cola and Barrs Cola and normally they are just referred to as Coke, Pepsi, Cola respectively. We do have Dr Pepper over here, but it's not the most popular of drinks, don't know why, maybe it's because it's so misunderstood.

Anyroads,

A few years back someone. (I think it was Bugliosi), in an incredibly desperate attempt at slamming the door on Oswald's innocence, claimed Oswald's drinking a coke was proof of his guilt--because Oswald would normally drink Dr. Pepper. Well, this was lame from the get-go.

I agree that claiming Oswald drinking a coke was proof of his guilt because Oswald would normally drink Dr Pepper is lame from the get-go. Like you, I think many people drink things interchangably (I know I do - I swap between Coke, Irn Bru, Pepsi and Dr Pepper - mostly depending on which one is on offer at the time). But yeah, even if Oswald in the main preferred Dr Pepper, drinking a coke wouldn't be proof of anything...

It's more than possible that Oswald was drinking a Dr Pepper... I wonder if a casual viewer would particularly know the difference between a Dr Pepper bottle and a Coca-Cole bottle really? (I know there has been a couple of threads here that have discussed the difference of the bottle shapes/sizes etc, I don't think I could tell much of a difference while glancing at someone drinking one.)

One thing that just sprang to my mind there was that (and I could be wrong on this) but was the vending machine in the second floor lunchroom not a Coca-Cola one, whilst the one on the first floor was a Dr Pepper one? (Not sure if that necessarily means those were the only drinks available in each one or not).

Of course if 'coke' is used as a generic term for all types, then its use would include meaning Coca-Cola too. How many of the witnesses would call it Coca-Cola (if it was that) instead of just calling it 'coke'... I don't know. Interesting topic all the same.

Regards

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Alistair Briggs
Removing erroneous line after Regards that shouldn't have been there.

[Pat Speer]

FWIW, Alistair, Frazier told Bugliosi the first floor machine sold Dr. Pepper, as well as orange soda and a few other flavors, but the second floor machine sold only coca-cola. Bugliosi took from this that it was unnatural and suspicious for Oswald to go up to the second floor to get a drink. I don't see it. I mean, perhaps the first floor machine was out of Dr. P, Or perhaps Oswald simply was in the mood for the "real thing".

Edited January 25, 2017 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

Just For The Record....

Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack in 2002 that the second-floor "Coke" machine had a variety of different drinks in it. Not just Coke....

https://app.box.com/s/kni180yusnkr2or26qlpr1y70ae066rr

And....

FWIW -- Captain Fritz wrote the word "Coca-Cola" (not just simply "Coke") in his report when discussing the drink that Oswald had with him when he was stopped by Officer Baker in the lunchroom (WR, p.600)....

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0312b.htm

And at one point in James Bookhout's 11/22/63 FBI report, he too uses the word "Coca-Cola" when describing the soft drink that Oswald said he had purchased on the second floor (WR, p.619)....

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm

Related Discussion:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/dr-pepper-talk.html

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Alistair Briggs]

17 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

FWIW, Alistair, Frazier told Bugliosi the first floor machine sold Dr. Pepper, as well as orange soda and a few other flavors, but the second floor machine sold only coca-cola. Bugliosi took from this that it was unnatural and suspicious for Oswald to go up to the second floor to get a drink. I don't see it. I mean, perhaps the first floor machine was out of Dr. P, Or perhaps Oswald simply was in the mood for the "real thing".

Pat,

I too don't see that as being unnatural or suspicious, as you said, perhaps the first floor was out of Dr Pepper or Oswald simply was in the mood for the 'real thing'.

I've seen some people make the claim that it was a Dr Pepper Oswald had and they use that as evidence that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter with Baker/Truly didn't happen because Oswald wouldn't have needed to go up there because Dr Pepper was only available on the first floor. Personally I don't think that, it is my opinion that the 2nd floor incident did happen and that Oswald did indeed have a Coca-cola...

Just on this subject, here is two bits of text from Bugliosi's book Four Days In November - no contentions on my part on the 'veracity' of the actual words spoke...

First is an exchange between Fritz and Oswald from his interrogation on the day of the assasination that started at approx: 3:40pm

Quote

"What part of the building were you in at the time the president was shot?" Fritz quizzes.
"I was having lunch about that time on the first floor," Oswald says dryly. "We broke for lunch about noon and I came down and ate."
"Where were you when the officer stopped you?" Fritz asks, referring to the story that Roy Truly, the building manager had told him earlier.
"I was on the second floor drinking a Coke when an officer came in," Oswald replies. "There's a soda machine in the lunchroom there. I went up to get a Coke."
"Then what did you do?" Fritz prompts.
"I left," Oswald says, like it's nothing.

also,

in a later interrogation of Oswald by Fritz (with Holmes present) starting at approx. 11am on the Sunday

Quote

Captain Fritz asks Oswald again where he was at the time of the shooting.
"When lunchtime came," Oswald says, "one of the Negro employees invited me to eat lunch with him, and I said, 'you go down and sent the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes'". He said that before he could finish what he was doing, all the commotion surrounding the assasination took place, so he said, "I just went on downstairs" to "see what it was all about." On the way, he says, he stopped to get a Coke, and before he could proceed on his way out of the building, "a police officer stopped me" to ask some questions, but "my superintendent stepped up and told the officer that I am one of the employees of the building. So, he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went out the front door and into the crowd to see what it was all about."
Postal Inspector Holmes notices that Oswald didn't say what floor he was on at the time of the shooting, or whether he had taken the elevator or stairs down.*

*But Holmes testified that Oswald made it clear that "he was still up in the building" when the shooting started and had "rushed downstairs to go out and see what was going on".
 

Regards

[Mark Knight]

You DO realize that the Fritz-Oswald exchange is NOT an actual dialogue that occurred, but only Bugliosi's version of how it MIGHT HAVE occurred...right?

 

I grew up just outside of Louisville, Kentucky. "Coke" was BOTH a generic and a brand-specific term. Conversations such as this were common:

"Would you grab me a coke when you go to the store?"

"Yeah. What kind do you want?"

"Dr Pepper, I guess..."

 

 

 

[Alistair Briggs]

2 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

You DO realize that the Fritz-Oswald exchange is NOT an actual dialogue that occurred, but only Bugliosi's version of how it MIGHT HAVE occurred...right?

Yep. Perhaps you missed the bit where I wrote - no contentions on my part on the 'veracity' of the actual words spoke...